Talk radio has spent a lot of time the last few days debating the shooting of Trayvon Martin. Was George Zimmerman justified? Was it an act of racism or self defense? Are gun laws too lax? Too strong? Whatever the side of the issue callers fell under, one thing was consistant--everyone agreed that this was a tragic event.
Well, almost everyone. Over on the TeeVee, Fox news reported the story and invited people to comment on the network's blog. The result was a whole lot of ugly. We can't print most of it here because it is just TOO ugly, but here are a few examples:
-- "What a shame—a tragedy, really— because the dead lil’ gangsta could’ve used “‘A-FIRM-TIV AK-SHUN” to go to kollige an play footballz and make lotsa cash munny!”
-- "Zimmerman was attacked by the man and defended himself with a gun. Zimmerman’s wounds were verified by police."
-- " Why should anyone care about this kid? Because he is of color? People don’t value kids period. They are property. BTW, I am a conservative that cares a great deal about kids. We follow hundreds of cases each year, many white babies and children, none of them get attention. But he does??"
-- " How does anyone know what this 17 yr old said, Most likely he threw the race card out ” you stop me because I*M B L ACK” and then became threatning. The media alway plants the seed of doubt when when a B l ac k is sh ot by a caucasian".
-- " I’m just glad Zimmerman didnt miss and hit an innocent bystander."
-- " THIS IS PURE RACIST!! When do you ever see the DOJ investigate the death of a white child??"
-- "This is pure B.S I want to see the kids police record even if something is expounged also why was he removed from facebook it says account terminated.Why because his parents are trying to cover his tracks just like if you hit a bus they see Dollar signs. People have dragged data about Zimmerman out where is the kids past.Don’t say he was a good boy prove it. Ask yourself what is more likely to happen any 17 year old kid when you ask a question. A smartass reply I have never and I mean never seen a teenager run unless he did something wrong.I guess no crinimal has ever cased a place when they went to a store. It takes me aback the way all these facts are quoted by people who read one story on a issue."
-- " They should have a hunting season in Florida for these drug crazed gang members."
Posters on the CNN website were not above the fray, either:
"Come on people, lets be sensible here. Why do african americans get labeled the way they do? Well because their own people give them the horrible name that is been placed on them. I live in suburb outside of Chicago that is mostly White and Hispanic. We get a TON of break-ins in garages and houses. Guess who police catch doing 80-90% of these break-ins? Black. I dont even want to mention the recent mob actions that have been going on in the yuppie neighborhoods in Chicago where black teenagers/men are going into these white neighborhoods and beating people to within a inch of their lives."
Local talk radio has been all over this as well, and listeners have been weighing in on the station websites. From MyNorthwest.com:
--" just because you are not of the same race as the other person involved does not make you a racist. Shooting someone of a different race when they are breaking into your home does not make you racist. Getting into an argument with someone of a different race does not make you racist. "
--" I love how Zimmerman says it was self defense when he was clearly chasing after the kid. Is it so hard to believe that this 17 yr old kid was walking home and then is scared for his life because some guy with a gun is chasing him, for reasons he doesn't know? You clearly hear the kid screaming for help while Zimmerman pumps a lethal shot in him. Where is the self defense? If there was blood on Zimmerman, it would be very possible that the kid tried fighting him off. Hell, he was being chased by some crazy guy with a gun. I would try to fight off somebody chasing me with a gun. Zimmerman needs to be arrested and charged. This is sending a horrible message to the public."
From KOMO Radio website:
-- " Why was the kid in a gated residential community? Did he live there? Let the whole story come out and then let the people responsible to review the case decide what to do. We shouldn't charge or not charge based upon public opinion. Somewhere the rule of law has to count, thus the meticulous investigation and someone down the line there may be a murder charge cased upon that investigation, not based on online polls. "
If YOU were to call in to Beck, Hartmann, Hannity, Carlson, Ross, Burbank, Monson or Schultz, what would you say?
Short answer; Not until after the election in November and probably not after that.
Posted by: KS | March 22, 2012 at 08:00 PM
In 2010, the races of the 6,008 known hate crime offenders were as follows:
■58.6 percent were white.
■18.4 percent were black.
■8.9 percent were groups made up of individuals of various races (multiple races, group).
■1.1 percent were Asian/Pacific Islander.
■1.0 percent were American Indian/Alaskan Native.
■12.0 percent were of unknown race.
Incase you want to research it.
Posted by: Finis Hominis | March 22, 2012 at 08:29 PM
That's a good point finis. I'm not sure if all those neighborhood assn and gated communities feel there is even a Constitution anymore
Posted by: Coiler | March 22, 2012 at 08:38 PM
I'm sitting here catcning up on Maddow who is itemizing Romney's lies on the campaign trail. Finally, a media person on the left is confronting and showing proof that Romney lies - chronic lying.
That is the culture on the right. Lying and division. Warmongering and hate mongering.
Right-wing media profits from hate and lies and using both to rev up the anger and hatred in it's listeners - stupid people.
It's not new. Neal Starkman wrote a Seattle Times article when Bush was elected about "The S Factor." Guess what "S" stands for?
Sort of like Justice Scalia "forgetting" the 5-4 BvG decision and rewriting history that it was 7-2.
That is the right. They can hear the tape of a kid pleading for his life. The parents weren't notified for three days. His phone shows he was talking to his girlfriend at the time - not harassing anyone.
Hate, lies, racism, anger, and violence. From the shooting in Arizona of Congresswoman Gabby Giffords to Trayvon Martin, there is a culture of violence and hate on the right. And it is not new. And what are the Republicans on this blog going to do about it?
And please, no idiotic comparisons to the late night rhetoric of Bill Mahar or Mike Malloy. They pale in comparison to the influence of the right. Remember, guys, Fox News beats CNN and MSNBC. So no mischaracterization or redirection. Talk about yourselves for a change.
Posted by: Truth-seeker | March 22, 2012 at 08:43 PM
State Sen. Wendy Davis (D-TX) office firebombed Tuesday. She was an advocate for Planned Parenthood.
When will it end, Republicans?
Posted by: Truth-seeker | March 22, 2012 at 09:17 PM
The Wendy Davis bomber was a wayward drunk. Perhaps he was agitated by rightwing media, but in his state very hard to tell.
Posted by: Finis Hominis | March 22, 2012 at 09:24 PM
Which is the greater threat to your freedom? The Socialist “Kenyan” in the White House who wants to take your boom-boom toys, or the vigilante nutcase who decides to murder a black kid for no reason, and can get away with it?
Where do we live, Truthseeker, when we protect the murder’s rights over the victim’s? Is this the realization of the Great Conservative Dream?
Posted by: Coiler | March 22, 2012 at 09:25 PM
State Sen. Wendy Davis (D-TX) office firebombed Tuesday. She was an advocate for Planned Parenthood.
When will it end, Republicans?
Posted by: Truth-seeker | March 22, 2012 at 09:17 PM
How do you know it wasn't a leftwing wack job who wanted to make it seem like it was a rightwinger ? like the leftists that purposely misspelled signs at Tea Party events in the hopes of making the Tea Party look illiterate. Waiting for credible evidence, Seeker - not your ass-umptions.
Posted by: KS | March 22, 2012 at 09:32 PM
"Which is the greater threat to your freedom? The Socialist “Kenyan” in the White House who wants to take your boom-boom toys, or the vigilante nutcase who decides to murder a black kid for no reason, and can get away with it?"
He is not a Kenyan ! He is an American redistributionist, born in Hawaii and former community organizer.
Posted by: KS | March 22, 2012 at 09:35 PM
I hear you Coiler. The question I would ask is aimed at KOMO. “Did he live there?” what the hell does that have to do with anything? Are you advocating the death of someone because they are walking through the neighborhood?
Posted by: Finis Hominis | March 22, 2012 at 09:44 PM
"like the leftists that purposely misspelled signs at Tea Party events in the hopes of making the Tea Party look illiterate. "
Posted by: KS | March 22, 2012 at 09:32 PM
Don't be such a moran KS.
Posted by: Finis Hominis | March 22, 2012 at 09:53 PM
"Wayward drunk." As if that absolves him. He is typical of the climate of violence that has been exacerbated by the right. I've seen few accounts of "wayward drunks" bombing offices. Actually, I don't think I've seen any.
Coiler, I'll leave the answer to that question to a conservative. Rove has influenced an 80-year-old Texas oil man to give $18 million dollars to get rid of "that socialist" Obama.
Where do we live? I don't know anymore. But less and less in a civilized society.
Posted by: Truth-seeker | March 22, 2012 at 09:56 PM
Finis: the rights of both the shooter and the victim must be protected which means asking questions. KS says "in a gated community" and Finis says "walking through a neighborhood."
Facts matter. But, the fact is he was walking on a street and not through a gated community. That is the progenitor of the violence on the right: that kind of spin to people who don't care to get their news from non-propagandist media. Well, unless the store which sold him the skittles is located in a gated community. Haha.
Is that what you're saying KS? Really?
Posted by: Truth-seeker | March 22, 2012 at 10:08 PM
Didn’t say it absolves him. I said his actions don’t condemn them.
Posted by: Finis Hominis | March 22, 2012 at 10:09 PM
"his actions don't condemn them?" You mean him? I haven't condemned him. I am using him as an example of the kind of violence we've seen against the values of the left or of women whether or not it was intended that way or not. I can wait for the jury to come in but I am not naive either. His violence fits a pattern. It is the pattern about which I speak.
Posted by: Truth-seeker | March 22, 2012 at 10:16 PM
No, I mean them. He is at responsible for what he did, but I don’t see the connection between him and them. If you have something please let us know.
Posted by: Finis Hominis | March 22, 2012 at 10:24 PM
No, I mean them. He is responsible for what he did, but I don’t see the connection between him and them. If you have something please let us know.
Posted by: Finis Hominis | March 22, 2012 at 10:26 PM
By them, you mean...? Right-wing media? The right?
Well, perhaps it was coincidence that brought a wayward drunk with a bomb to the office of a Texas legislator recently in the news and the center of attention over health-care rights for women.
BTW, there's a bridge in Brooklyn . . . :)
Posted by: Truth-seeker | March 22, 2012 at 10:30 PM
Don't be such a moran KS.
Posted by: Finis Hominis | March 22, 2012 at 09:53 PM
What is a moran ? You aren't smart enough to spell moron -LMAO !!
"Facts matter. But, the fact is he was walking on a street and not through a gated community. That is the progenitor of the violence on the right: that kind of spin to people who don't care to get their news from non-propagandist media. Well, unless the store which sold him the skittles is located in a gated community. Haha.
Is that what you're saying KS? Really?"
Posted by: Truth-seeker | March 22, 2012 at 10:08 PM
Don't be silly, seeker - when do you mention facts ? You logic is laughable and had nothing to do with what I wrote earlier. I said nothing about a gated community -you pulled that out of thin air or an orifice.
Where's your evidence to confirm a conservative committed this act ? All you are doing is putting forth a flatulent and faux argument and chasing your tail.
Pathetic ! Keep playing that BS- with yourself and Finis. Ciao..
Posted by: KS | March 22, 2012 at 10:32 PM
No KS, I said the right-wing hate mongering and spin encourages violence. A pattern of violence.
Sorry about the "gated community" reference. I see that was Coiler in a different context.
Now I'm Finis? He'll (I assume) be quite surprised to know that we are one.
Posted by: Truth-seeker | March 22, 2012 at 10:37 PM
I’m suggesting the right in general. They wouldn’t agree with this nut. I agree the right perpetuates violence, but this person seems to be outside the norm.
Posted by: Finis Hominis | March 22, 2012 at 10:47 PM
"They wouldn't agree with this nut." (They) do perpetuate violence."
Okay.
It's late and I'm making mistakes. I don't know that I'd change my posts on the connection between the right and the violence so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree if we do.
Posted by: Truth-seeker | March 22, 2012 at 10:57 PM
How is the right perpetuating violence?
Posted by: Truth-seeker | March 22, 2012 at 11:01 PM
Moran
Posted by: Looks familar | March 22, 2012 at 11:53 PM
A guest on Anderson Cooper tonight:
"“George is not a racist. He was just performing his duties as watch captain. Whether it be African American, Latino, Asian, or white, he would’ve done the same thing. He would have approached the person and asked him 'What’s your business here?' and if he (Trayvon) had just answered him in an appropriate manner, 'I’m just here visiting. My mother’s house is around the corner,' and be upfront and truthful, there wouldn’t be any problem.”
So we Black mothers just need to teach our child to "answer [complete f'ng strangers accosting them] in an appropriate manner" the following:
Yes suh massa suh I's was just walking home. Please don't shoot me.
Anderson Cooper did not follow up on his guest's comment. Shameful.
Posted by: Looks familar | March 22, 2012 at 11:59 PM
Anderson Cooper is a dim bulb. As a debate moderator, he was an unmitigated disaste. That's not to say that the Republican party was stupid to go ahead with many of the debates without screening the moderators.
How is the right perpetuating violence ?
Posted by: KS | March 23, 2012 at 04:10 AM
As a debate moderator, he was an unmitigated disaster.
Posted by: KS | March 23, 2012 at 04:11 AM
Anderson Cooper is not the topic.
Posted by: Truth-seeker | March 23, 2012 at 07:17 AM
And his qualifications as a debate moderator is not the topic. What do you think about his guest's comment, KS? What do you make of all the comments in the post above that blame the victim? Or do you even think the boy was a victim?
Posted by: Walt | March 23, 2012 at 08:20 AM
This happened in America. I am shot and killed in a residential neighborhood. My cell phone is on my person, and I am found to have been carrying only a bag of candy and a drink. 911 calls from neighbors record my screams for help in the moments before my death. No one uses my cell phone to locate my family. No one canvasses the neighborhood to see if someone there knows me. I am a John Doe in the morgue for three days. But, my body is tested for drugs and alcohol. My killer is not tested for anything. My killer is questioned and released, and he's still free today. I am Trayvon Martin, and We are better than this.
Posted by: Albert Pryor | March 23, 2012 at 08:30 AM
A couple of corrections to the comments that are worth correcting: Al Sharpton had Trayvon's mother and father on. The father says he found out 12 hour later (not 3 days), after reporting his son missing. He also said that Trayvon punched in the code to pass through the gate to the complex. Something I haven't seen pointed out anywhere: every bullet fired by an officer of the law in most, if not all, precincts in the USA results in an investigation of the shooter. Vigilantes should be under the same scrutiny; especially when it comes to proving self-defense.
Posted by: LucasFoxx | March 23, 2012 at 10:06 AM
Moran
Posted by: Looks familar | March 22, 2012 at 11:53 PM
Looks familar, humor is often lost on some.
Posted by: Finis Hominis | March 23, 2012 at 02:17 PM
How is the right perpetuating violence?
Posted by: Truth-seeker | March 22, 2012 at 11:01 PM
Well, today it’s been reported a woman shouted "Pretend it's Obama" during target practice by Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum at a shooting range.
Posted by: Finis Hominis | March 23, 2012 at 02:18 PM
I will give Santorum some credit; he did push back for once
Posted by: Finis Hominis | March 23, 2012 at 02:20 PM
Finis:
Yes, I understand your hair-splitting about the bomber. He didn't write a letter saying why he did what he did. The climate of violence on the right is my circumstantial evidence. I won't repeat the post but I think I said it clearly. The right and its media encourages hate. Was Gabby's shooter "in the norm?"
No, my claim is that the right creates a climate of violence by its rhetoric and lies. I stand by that. And the ones who act on the emotions and hate provoked by the right are "out of the norm." And if the right generally thought differently, they would do something about those who represent them so dishonestly if it is, in fact, dishonest.
Karl Rove is the right. What's he doing convincing an eighty-year-old senile guy that Obama's a socialist? That is the right.
Posted by: truth-seeker | March 23, 2012 at 03:27 PM
LucasFoxx, thanks for the correction. I guess waiting for the facts is a good idea. BTW, where did you get your information? Mine was the radio which is hardly the best place.
Posted by: truth-seeker | March 23, 2012 at 03:30 PM
I couldn’t have said it better. My children are so into this Trayvon Martin situation; it makes me wonder if it’s becoming a movement.
Posted by: Finis Hominis | March 23, 2012 at 03:34 PM
Huffington has a column and pictures "A million hoodie march."
Posted by: truth-seeker | March 23, 2012 at 03:44 PM
Where are all our verbose rightwing posters now?
Posted by: Truth-seeker | March 23, 2012 at 06:28 PM
watching Portlandia?
Posted by: Coiler | March 23, 2012 at 07:37 PM
The War on women, laws which give one the right to kill kids and absolutely dismal prospects for a Whitehouse run? I’d hide my mug too.
Posted by: Montego | March 23, 2012 at 07:53 PM
What do you make of all the comments in the post above that blame the victim? Or do you even think the boy was a victim?
Posted by: Walt | March 23, 2012 at 08:20 AM
There's too much rush to justice before all of the facts are in, which . The racist meme governs here. What if it was found that the boy was legitimately killed in self-defense ? Could you and the other leftwingers accept this or would you paint the court as racist ?
Al Sharpton is an ambulance chaser and race baiter, so keep that in mind. He could be dead wrong, but facts never get in the way when he chases ambulances Portlandia is into reruns now.
Posted by: KS | March 23, 2012 at 11:09 PM
Zimmerman, who shot Martin is Hispanic, not Caucasian. Hopefully, justice will be served in the verdict. No evidence exists to his political persuasion - he could be a leftwinger or maybe a rightwinger or deranged - in which case his politics would be less relevant.
Posted by: KS | March 23, 2012 at 11:25 PM
It’s not his politics that are in question, it’s his motives. But in the case of people like you, it is the politics that are in question.
Posted by: Finis Hominis | March 23, 2012 at 11:31 PM
ks
many of us recall the rush by some on this site to proclaim gabby gifford's shooter to be right wing, etc without any facts with comments like the right 'drew first blood' etc. folks like this are the ones guided by politics.
so it is instructive to watch folks post on this current tragedy without facts assigning it to one party. their motives become clear.
of course, when the facts came out and it turned out that gabby gifford's shooter was not right wing or conservative, the same ones who had proclaimed it didn't have the intellectual fortitude to come back and apologize or even admit that they were wrong.
let the usual suspects bray on this tragedy and attempt to use it for political gain.
Posted by: Puget Sound Blathers | March 24, 2012 at 05:32 AM
Many understand the shooter, of 19 people including gabby Gifford and Christina-Taylor Green a nine year old, was antagonized by the right wing fear campaign. I don’t believe the Florida event was politically motivated, but the coverage of this story on fox news and the reaction on the right is conspicuous.
Posted by: Finis Hominis | March 24, 2012 at 08:47 AM
Before you mentioned it - PSB, no one had drawn parallels with the shooting of Rep. Giffords. There appears to be common thread between the two shooters after reading it.
Finis-Many of us understand that you and the newer version of the usual suspects tried to politicize the Giffords shooting (as you did above) as well as the shooting of Martin and rushing to justice now just as was demonstrated then. When you brought in Fox News, you just politicized it some more just like MSNBC and Media Matters is.
Posted by: KS | March 24, 2012 at 09:48 AM
I'll politicize it. It is the result of right-wing hate talk, vitriol and lies. And your side reeks of it. Dance around it if you wish. It doesn't matter the race, gender or which party-card the perpetrator is carrying. These acts result from the hatemongering on the right.
And you should all be ashamed and repentent and do something about it. Start with turning off Fox non-News.
Posted by: Truth-seeker | March 24, 2012 at 11:06 AM
KS, your posts make less and less sense.
Posted by: Truth-seeker | March 24, 2012 at 11:16 AM
The "new" racist is more subtle than the in-your-face, cross-burning, n-word-dropping racist of days gone by. The "new" racist knows racism is considered bad. He might even believe racism is bad. This is not to say the good-old-fashioned racists don't exist in droves. The new racist hides his racism behind other attacks, and, thus, feels he has a way to deny his racism.
Hell, even George Zimmerman's dad knows this. He made sure to let the world know his son is Spanish-speaking, grew up in a multi-cultural family and had black friends. (I use the past tense, because I can't help but wonder just how many black friends he has now). Of course, the crime here isn't being a racist. The crime is killing an unarmed kid.
Charles Blow was on Maher last night and talked about the new racist. The new racism, according to Blow, is the denial of racism: "For you to see race in this, makes you a racist!" This, of course, is what Gingrich pulled the other day on The Sean Hannity Radio Show by calling Pres. Obama's comment on the shooting "disgraceful". According to Newt "It's not a question of who that young man looked like." Except, if he had looked differently, he never would've been shot. What Gingrich did next, though, goes beyond the simple denial of racism that Mr. Blow spoke of. He then deploys what I call the "yes, but" strategy of the new racism. This "yes, but" throws the charges of racism back onto the victim and all those who stand for the victim. It goes beyond "if you see racism there, you must be racist." It suggests that any black person who looks for justice for a black victim only cares about their race: they protest Trayvon Martin, but not the unnamed white man; they relate to Trayvon's parents because they have a black son too (or would have a black son had they a son), so they don't care about white sons. Gingrich is swift enough to not just mention would-be white sons, but Puerto Rican, Cuban, Asian-American, and Native American sons. By adding in these categories, the new racist is further able to "prove" his non-bias. Expect to see this new racism play a huge role when Zimmerman's case comes before the grand jury. But, just like the old racism, it's nothing more than a justification for inequality. It deflects blame by calling victims of racism the true racists. And, in the end, it aims for a world in which any white man with a gun has the power of life and death over any person of color.
Posted by: Dave in Lynwood | March 24, 2012 at 11:22 AM