We have some questions

Talk radio and the Intertubes are still in a frenzy over the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. The right wing news heads have worked very hard to explain all the ways the 17 year old could have avoided being shot, including not wearing a hoodie sweatshirt, and "talking respectfully" to George Zimmerman. They have spent an equal amount of time describing the horrific accounts of Zimmerman's injuries from the scuffle and how he narrowly escaped being killed by Trayvon.

From KOMO News we can see ABC News video from a surveillance camera in the police station in Sanford Florida. Do you see evidence of a broken nose? Blood? Looking like one has rolled on the grass with an attacker or had his head slammed several times on the sidewalk?

The cop who "frisked" Zimmerman AFTER they got out of the car checked his jacket pockets (assuming they already had the gun and were not looking for that), then checked his pants pockets, found something, and took it off Zimmerman and put it in his own pocket, jabbing several times to get it down into his pocket. Has anyone mentioned the cop taking something out of Zimmerman's pocket? Did that object ever made it into evidence?

Image(Joe Oliver, BFF of George) Why has Joe Oliver quit his job to "testify" for his "friend" George, when, in an interview with Lawrence O'Donnell (The Last Word M-Th 7p-8p MSNBC), he was so easily shown to be an acquaintance at work? He said he considered himself more of an "older uncle" figure. Who is paying him so he can quit his job?

The American people have heard all the 911 tapes and, tonight, have seen the police surveillance video. Why did Zimmerman's father just release a statement that "George said Trayvon told him 'You are going to die tonight' " ? Does he think viewers will now ignore what they heard on the tapes? Does the fact that the elder Zimmerman used to be a judge have any bearing on why the police were told to drop the charges against George, and that request was made by the Chief of Police and State Attorney? We look forward to the Grand Jury hearing next month so our questions might be answered.

Comments

[Finis Hominis]

There was even more information released tonight. Information, not in line with the narrative conveyed by Zimmerman.

[sparky]

Yes, nor the narrative his friends are telling. I watched that interview with Oliver last night. Really odd..he started out speaking as if he and Z were very close and he was stepping up to do the right thing. But by the end of his interview he was admitting they were not all THAT close. I wonder if the person who is funding his "friendship" will move on to someone else now? Joe might have to go back to work.

[Finis Hominis]

Yes, Sparky. That was a very strange moment. Did you hear of the 911 call from the 14 year old?

[sparky]

I might have,,I heard a lot of them.

[Truth-seeker]

Everybody has questions. I read that Zimmerman had no marks that indicated he was in any sort of scuffle. I heard Trayvon pleading for his life for a long time before he was finally shot - Randi played the 911 tape. (I think it was 911.) Sirota talked about the three-year-old who shot himself last week. Guns, guns, guns. I'm just tired of it all.

[sparky]

Some updated info:
“Robert J. Zimmerman served as a full-time magistrate from 2000-2006. Please be advised that in Virginia magistrates are judicial officers, but they are not considered "judges" and do not possess trial jurisdiction. More detailed information on the role of the magistrate in Virginia is available on Virginia's Judicial System Website.”

[A Facebook User]

If I wanted to demonstrate that I'd been "attacked," giving myself a bloody nose would be an obvious way to do it.

[Chucks]

Do people actually want this guy Zimmerman to be found guilty of a crime, evidence be damned? Is anybody willing to allow an investigation by agency's independent of the initial police dept to determine the actual facts of the case?
I can understand Jesse Jackson's and Al Sharpton's need for that kind of reaction from people as their power comes from being race baiting poverty pimps, but the rest of us?
I know that it is not politically correct to acknowledge that, while being less than 8% of this nations population nearly 50% of all murders are committed by black men and nearly 75% of those are committed by black males between 15 and 25 years of age.
It is delusional to completely ignore that reality. That in know way indites Trayvon in any way of being guilty of any thing. It just may be enough to cause Zimmerman concern.
It should be noted that the police dept detective investigating the case in the first place did recommend Zimmerman be arrested. It was the prosecuting attorney that declined for lack of evidence. The "stand your ground" laws are the reason near as I can tell. It is good law, but this case needs further review.

[Preston]

The system failed, the normal process for a late night adjudication is for the on-call deputy prosecutor to arrive at the station to make the call. The prosecutor himself came down after being called by the chief. Also, Zimmerman lied when he said he was 'punched in the nose'. There would be a lot of blood on clothing and elsewhere. The police confirmed Trayvon's identity but was tagged as a "John Doe" later on even as his father filed a missing person's case the next day, his body sat unclaimed for 3. More 'southern justice' 'Stand your Ground' is a excuse for people to hunt down other people. Zimmerman is Guilty.

[Truith-seeker]

You know, Preston, I originally heard three days then someone posted twelve hours and now you say three days again. I don't know how long it was before his father was notified. Where's the source we can trust? I did read that he was visiting his father's fiance who lives in that gated community.

As for Zimmerman, you don't stand over a boy who is pleading for his life and then shoot him multiple times. That's basic.

And no one with any intelligence is extrapolating from this one incident an indictment of the whole Black population. Unbelievable.

[Walt]

So Chuckles, what evidence would convince you that Zimmerman is guilty?

[Mary]

Wow! Catching up on Sirota and he's talking about and playing several tapes re the Martin travesty. Sirota wrote a book about the 80s and he recalls the Bernie Goetz case and wonders if we have made any progress at all in our relationship with African Americans. Sirota refers to Zimmerman "hunting" Trayvon.

Sirota is so good at analysis and he is so well read that he can connect all kinds of incidents over the years. This will probably be the best listen on the case you'll get. Besides, Sirota started talking about this weeks ago before it was picked up mainstream. Hope you'll listen here

Sirota's show is gaining listeners in Colorado. He was voted "best of" recently. It is because he does not pander nor apologize but he does cover EVERYTHING! you can imagine from local to national to frivolous. He pulls no punches, speaks plainly, and is not concerned with "nice." He is the best liberal on the radio. If you want erudite talk that isn't overly intellectual. He keeps it plain. You can tell I love him.

[Chucks]

Powder residue from the shot. Distance of victim when shot was fired. Angle of bullet traveling through body of victim. Witness statements. Shooters blood on victim. Blood splatter. Victims blood on shooter. Testimony of investigating officers.
Expert witness statements. Coroner reports.
I don't know Walt, just the normal stuff that shows that a crime was committed and who committed it, and proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
Nothing special. Just the truth as best it can be determined.
Anything missing?

[Mary]

And none of it factual. In your dreams.

[Puget Sound Blathers]

Anything missing?

Posted by: Chucks | March 29, 2012 at 05:09 PM

Just the 'rush to judgement' aspect.

Maybe this will turn out to be Tawana Brawley, redux.
Al Sharpton is riding it hard.

[Puget Sound Blathers]

doesn't the fact that al sharpton is using this one anyone pause?

[Finis Hominis]

Do people actually want this guy Zimmerman to be found guilty of a crime.
Posted by: Chucks | March 29, 2012 at 12:27 PM

Nah chucks, we have the right to demand light be shed on this matter. If you are in fact concerned about extreme comments please consider reacting to the right wing blogs or Zimmerman supporters.

By the way, here’s a cop which may agree with you.

[Walt]

I hope Dave in Lynwood doesn't mind me reposting part of what he said the other day : This "yes, but" throws the charges of racism back onto the victim and all those who stand for the victim. It goes beyond "if you see racism there, you must be racist." It suggests that any black person who looks for justice for a black victim only cares about their race." So apparently Mr. Sharpton is being racist because he is standing up for Trayvon. Or it gives Puget Sound "pause."
Chuck, what do you think about that tape that shows Zimmerman without a bloody (broken) nose or scrapes on his bald head from having his "head slammed on the sidewalk"?
Dave, your timing was prescient.

[Mary]

Good analysis, Walt.

Just heard Dave Zirin saying that Sanford, Florida was the same town where Jackie Robiinson in 1946 debuted in the minor leagues. So much racism ensued that Branch Rickey moved the team to Daytona Beach. Zirin praised Rickey for confronting the racism and moving the team. Interesting connection.

[KS]

Bring it on with the evidence. The truth deserves to come out. Sharpton and Jackson should shut their racist pieholes. They are aiding violence and the conviction of Zimmerman in the court of public opinion before any trial - they are defending Trayvon who may not be very defensible when it is all said and done. I stand by what I have previously stated in other posts.

Let the chips fall where they may.

[Finis Hominis]

Yah see chucks, there are more people with opinions than us.

[Mary]

These guys are a giggle. Like high schoolers who never grew up. An ad hominem here, an ad hominem there, here an ad hominem, there an ad hominem, everywhere an ad hominem.

Or should I have said primary school?

[Bill Veeck]

Next thing you know, they'll want to lynch Jackie Robinson for stealing second base. The south is still an ugly place in America.

[Chucks]

Walt, again we do not know the facts of the video. The guy was seen by Medics before being transported to the cop shop. Did they clean up any blood on the guys face? We should be looking for information from the Medics that treated his alleged injuries. Of course that is just common sense. Does everybody else not see the portly police officer looking at the top of Zimmermans head moments before walking him from the sally port in to the police station. What is the cop checking for? Injury? Lice? Bad hair cut? Guess he will just have to testify to that if a trial becomes necessary.
It may seem a bit moronic to some of you, but I just want facts before making a judgement in this case. At the very least give me more than Sean Hannity or Lawrence ODonnell spin and edit. Seems that spin is all it takes to get some of you spun.
If Zimmerman is guilty of murder, you all can lynch him in traditional southern style. Just visit the evidence before you pick the tree. That is all I'm saying.

[Finis Hominis]

Yes chucks, I for one would agree with you. But this should have been done in the beginning; I think that’s where we depart. It is hypocrisy, in your opinion, if this is not investigated. And it would be a shame if we let the hypocrites shut us up.

[Puget Sound Blathers]

finis, why not allow the investigation to move forward and see what the facts lead us to conclude rather than make a conclusion and then cherry pick facts that support the conclusion.
right now you have groups putting up a $$ bounty for george zimmerman, roseanne barr tweeting out the personal address of zimmerman's parents, folks declaring who is or isn't hispanic, etc etc etc.

a young man died and a family in grief. this reminds one of the rush to judgement after the Congresswoman Gifford's shooting. and you know who you are.

[Fremont]

"I know that it is not politically correct to acknowledge that, while being less than 8% of this nations population nearly 50% of all murders are committed by black men and nearly 75% of those are committed by black males between 15 and 25 years of age."

Chux, please, please cite your sources when you make such categorical claims.

[Finis Hominis]

No no Puget, don’t include me in your finger wagging party. I think if someone states their opinion I will listen. If they don’t want to digest my response then there is no real conversation.
But I won’t tut tut them because I don’t agree. I’ll leave the innuendo laden “Ann Landers” to you.

[Walt]

PS, it was Spike Lee who tweeted the wrong address, not Roseanne Barr. But I can see why you would confuse the two.

[Truth-seeker]

Don't blame Puget Sound, Walt. I'm sure it was the fault of the blog he got it from.

[KS]

Your'e wrong Walt - actually they both did. IF you skeptics would check outside of your leftist echo chamber blogs, you would have noticed. If you don't, you'll keep blathering misinformation.

[Finis Hominis]

Actually KS, she retwitted the Spike Lee mis-information, rather like what you just did.

[Finis Hominis]

Wait a minute, she twited the correct address. Ain’t that a bitch? Child is dead, America knows the address of the killer. WTF?

[Chucks]

I am unable to link exact as I am out of position Fremont, however, I Binged US Dept of Justice crime statistics to get the information.
It sucks to see it. My numbers are rounded but real. Would not be shocked to find that sociologists could follow it all back to the demise of the traditional black family since LBJ's "Great Society".

[Puget Sound Blathers advice for Finis]

Wait a minute, she twited the correct address. Ain’t that a bitch? Child is dead, America knows the address of the killer. WTF?

Posted by: Finis Hominis | March 31, 2012 at 12:17 AM

poor Finis, soooo very anxious for the lynch mob he doesn't really care to wait for the facts or the investigation, let alone a trial (concepts we learned folks call Due Process, Right to Trial, etc)
it's all in the Constitution. a wonderful document. highly recommend that you read it.

[Rachelle]

This thread is about the shooting in Florida. It is not about Keith Olbermann. There are other threads that are appropriate for comments about him.

A reminder of the "New Rules."

Comments that are egregiously off topic will be removed.

The name calling is heating up again, and those who persist will have their comment removed.

We love free speech. We love the Internets Tubes. Fortunately, there are lots of places available where you can practice your ad hominems.

[Finis Hominis]

You are correct Puget. Whatever you call it, however you define it. I do not care to diminish anyone’s right to say whatever they wish. I believe it is established someplace in law, allow me to scrutinize my library. I’m sure I can establish whence I’ve seen such.

[Truth-seeker]

Several classmates had recalled an incident in which Loughner, during a class discussion, had mocked and laughed at a young woman who was describing her abortion. One classmate described Loughner's reaction as "wildly inappropriate."[28] "(Loughner) started making comments about terrorism and laughing about killing the baby," former classmate Don Coorough recalled to ABC News."

She said that while Loughner was "anti-government,"

Loughner had oft expressed a view that women should not hold positions of power.

This is a liberal? Don't get fooled by labels.

Right Wingers Desperate to Brand Giffords Shooter as “Left Wing Radical"

Worldnut Daily; Drudge; More hate-talkers and more hate: Loughner; Zimmerman; Who's next?

You always miss the point, Puget Sound.

[Montego]

PS, isn't missing the point. trying to change the subject. Why do these fanatics gravitate to the right?

[Tommy008]

i have no doubt Chucks' statistics are correct. I've seen similar statitics myself. I remember when Ray Taliaferro used ot be confronted with statitics like this, from the FBI or other reputable organizations, he used to just deny them out of hand, saying that somehow whitey's similar crimes weren't being reported or that they were being let off. Really Ray? White murderers aern't being pursued caught and tried,and convicted just like their black counterparts? One of the reasons Mr. T is now irrelevant and off the major radio. I happen to think Zimmerman should have been arrested at the ecene, and charged as does the head detective. He was overruled by the prosecutor. There was so much suspicious circumstance there. The standard for arrest is not beyond a reasonable doubt. That's the convicitopn standard. Zimmerman's arrest does not mean he's guilty, just that there's enough there for an arrest. there was plenty there. Trayvon seems to have the claim under "stand your ground" not this zealout cop wannabee creep Zimmerman. Yes, I do have enough information to call him a creep.

[Tommy008]

Zimmerman is on tape talking about the "f###ing coons" (pre-censored so my new Blatherwatch censor won't have to).

[Tommy008]

You know what, why beat around the Bush. This will be my last post. A few eeeks ago i posted some NEGATIVE comment about Farrakhan, I called him a name that is not very nice but is not an obsenity. Our new person here, taking over for MichaeL, seemed to feel it was her right to change my word to her prefeered , more politically correct word, just a more "Seattle" word. The Farrakhan matter is inexcusable and frankly it still makes my blood boil. So go to
Hell,, whoever the Hell you are, our prudish, polically correct "miss new person'.

[Tommy008]

or whoever it was that did this at Blatherwatch. makes no differnce.

[Joe]

I happen to think Zimmerman should have been arrested at the ecene, and charged as does the head detective. He was overruled by the prosecutor. There was so much suspicious circumstance there. The standard for arrest is not beyond a reasonable doubt. That's the convicitopn standard. Zimmerman's arrest does not mean he's guilty, just that there's enough there for an arrest. there was plenty there. Trayvon seems to have the claim under "stand your ground" not this zealout cop wannabee creep Zimmerman. Yes, I do have enough information to call him a creep.

GZ actually was arrested, but he wasn't charged. Maybe the prosecutor didn't want to pursue this case because of uncertainty about whether the aggressor was TM or GZ. Prosecutors are motivated to keep their "batting average" as high as possible. They want to have a good charged/conviction ratio.

[KS]

There are more questions about how the media did an abysmal job of hyping this story. The link from yahoo.com states it well - http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/trayvon-martin-case-exposes-worst-media-210020839.html

Let's keep moving forward on this investigation bring in Zimmerman for further questioning if justified by the authorities. Until there is a significant development, it would serve everyone else well if the media would stop covering anything associated with this and kindly shut their collective pieholes.

[Mohammy]

If Trayvon had been white, no one would have cared! In fact, they would have been cheering! One less white person probably a Christian too!