Sparky speaks: week 5 of testing... and they cut my pay.

Sparky (not her real name) is a longtime BlatherWatch commenter. In real life she's a an educator somewhere in the South Sound area. She and her fellow teacher/administrators took a hit this week from legislators because, as she writes, "we are being asked to sacrifice because wealthier people in our state will not..."

We began week 4 of testing this week. In the beginning, it was the Measurement of Student Progress, which is the new name for the Washington Assessment of Student Learning (WASL). That covered grades 3-6, with some of the older students taking portions of the test online.  

Then we moved into MAPS test, a generic test of Reading, Language usage and Math, and is a district sponsored test. The kids are catatonic, we are all trying very hard to do our best...and today, the Legislature cut my pay.

I almost had to laugh. Every year there seems to be another test..WASL, MSP, MAPS, DIBELS, reading assessments that go with the basal reader, math assessments that go with the math series. Some of these tests reach down into Kindergarten because you are never too young to waste instruction time on testing!

Our district has not been quite as hard hit as others around us--about 17 teachers have lost their positions due to cuts in funding. Larger districts are looking at losing between 100 and 200 teachers each. This means the classes will be even more crowded, kids will get less individualized attention...but hey----we still have to run the gamut of testing. Next year, the MAPS test will be given 3 times a year, and will eventually encompass grades 1-5.

Our school is small, and my library is the largest space we have that is suitable for testing. I have a small 16 station computer lab, and two carts of 15 laptops each. These are set up all around the library and classes come and go to test each student for most of each day.

This means I have had to close the library for student use, and my support services in math and reading -- I teach several small groups a day so we can get those groups smaller -- have been cancelled. As I said above, next year we will be doing this 3 times. That means for 9-12 weeks my teaching space will be closed. I am one of the proctors for the test because of my expertise on computers, so going out to the classrooms to teach is not an option. It means that instead of teaching Reading and Math, the teachers are standing in my library supervising and proctoring the tests right along with me.  

Then, tonight, I got this email from our WEA president:

The bad news:

 - $2.5 billion total CUT in K-12 and higher education funding over the next two years
 - 1.9 percent pay cut for education support professionals and certificated staff, totaling $179 million (Previous budgets proposed a 3 percent pay cut.)
 - Voter-approved I-728 funding for smaller class sizes suspended
 - Voter-approved I-732 funding for educator COLAs suspended
 - More students next fall, and fewer education support professionals and teachers
 - Repeal of the age 66 COLA for Plan 1 retirees
 - Skyrocketing college tuition
Washington has the third-most-crowded class sizes in the country, and this budget will cram even more kids into overcrowded classrooms. This budget cuts funding for more than 1,300 teaching and support staff jobs. There will be more kids and fewer staff in our schools this fall.

But, WEA members helped influence the final budget, helping prevent permanent damage:

 - No salary step freeze
 - K-3 class sizes partially protected
 - NBCT incentive pay largely protected
 - No reduction in health care funding
 - No state takeover of K-12 health benefit plans, but it studies a potential state takeover for 2013-14

We are also taking an additional pay cut in my district because they have eliminated the 3 Learning Improvement Days.  Those LID days were paid days when kids did not have school, and we used them to analyze data (from all those TESTS) and work to strengthen and improve our instruction. Because of that, my total pay cut is closer to 4%.

It also cuts pay for all K-12 and higher education employees -- and once again suspends our voter-approved cost-of-living adjustments.

Once the budget passes, these cuts become a local issue for education associations and school boards. Voters, legislators, parents and the media need to know how these cuts hurt students and families in their communities. Bargainers across the state will have to negotiate the specific impact of these cuts on WEA members and students. It's not going to be easy or pleasant.

This comes about because of a man named Tim Eyman, the perennial anti-tax initiative petitioner who was successful in getting his latest tax issue on the ballot, and the citizens of Washington State approved it. Because of Eyman's most recent initiative, legislators were unable to raise the revenue needed to fully fund public education. They needed a two-thirds vote to raise revenue, which was impossible with the current Legislature.

Those of us who teach do not do this job to become rich. But it is the height of something that we are being asked to sacrifice because wealthier people in our state will not.  Meanwhile, more kids are stuffed into classes and the idea is being floated that our evaluations should be tied to those never ending TESTS.

I, for one, am ready for Summer.

Comments

[gbs]

Please don't think that the wealthier people are not also suffering. Our income has been cut by 70%...we are in sales. We are suffering as well. We all need to tighten our belts and get through this the best way we can.

[Andrew]

I wouldn't blame Eyman, I'd blame the voters who voted to pass the initiative. And those voters aren't all wealthy.

Basically what it comes down to is that "puting children first" is a luxury item that most people sacrifice when they lose their jobs, or just fearful that they might lose their jobs.

[Zim]

Yes, gbs lets cut public education by 70% to match your inconvenience.

I don’t mean to sound as shitty as you but folks like you need to understand 70 % to you doesn’t mean 70% to the poor. We still need to educate the youth of this country if not to help our children’s future.

[joanie]

Oh horsepuckey. You're in the wrong business if you think that. Try healthcare. Salesmen in healthcare are still getting bonuses. How do I know, i heard it on Dave Ross last year straight from the mouth of sales person. Some areas are always doing well. Talked to any hedge fund managers recently? Or Wall Street thiefs?

In Seattle, we do the MAP K-5. We have K kids crying. Why should any District be testing K kids?

Per the Seattle Times, we took a 1.9% cut which may or may not trickle down to teachers depending on how each District chooses to handle it. I heard early this morning. Seattle Times Could be layoffs or maybe - just maybe - all that bloat in administration will take a hit. But, not likely. Administrators seem to be adverse to cutting their own pay. We have overpaid principals and just got rid of an overpaid superintendent who allowed a fraud to scam the District out of millions. And after our own Joseph couldn't keep the books straight and spent the District's money twice leaving us $25 to $35 million in red ink. Oh, those bean counters. They sure know how to fix things. Worth every penny they're overstuffed little wallets can hold.

Yes, I'm revved up to today. As a teacher who started when the starting salary was $20,000 and just got a decent wage after twenty years, I'm not happy about giving it back. I think you, Mr. Salesman, can take a bigger cut, and let the already underpaid teachers of your children have a decent living.
Wealthier people want to keep their "standard of living" and so don't mind exploiting the rest of us. Do you have to pay for extra school at todays tuition rates to keep your sales credentials up?

I had an interesting talk with another teacher whose husband is an accountant and Republican, of course. He does very well. When pressed, she admitted they have plenty but they don't want to give up the luxurious standard they are currently living. Gosh, they might have to forego the month in Mexico and two weeks in Hawaii and that cruise they take every year. And the new kitchen, might have to be on hold. No, not really.

Teachers . . . women . . . servants . . . part-time employees who deserve what men want to give them. Right. And education? Nobody wants an educated citizenry anymore. Golly gee, they might become socialists and try to vote and we all know the rethuglicans don't want more people voting. They want us dumb and poor. Thank you very much.

And nobody in sales ever made what a teacher makes especially for the time they put in. Sales? Change products. BTW, reduce a salesmen's salary by 70?% and you might be in the ballpark of a veteran teacher. Might. Not likely though. Just ask our highly valued RV guy. We are just teachers. We deserve to be screwed.

Good job, Sparky. I think I'm angrier. Giving up a cruise is not "tightening your belt."

[ProgBlogJunky]

4%? Sparky, by your math that means you only work 150 days a year. Sucks to be you since the avg. worker works 250 days.

[Zim]

PB&J;
We’re past that argument. Many professions don’t work a standard schedule. And with current technologies some work from home regularly.

[joanie]

PB&J is stuck in the rut of right-wingdom. And he knows that teachers work more than 150 days a year which makes him dishonest as well. I don't take him seriously.

[chucks]

I see that teachers are the only ones having to suffer pay cuts. Sorry to hear that Sparky. Oh wait, not really true. My wife looks to be taking a 3% cut as well. Of course the state actuary's work for the legislature, thus can not belong to a union. She has not had a pay raise of any kind since January, 2008. But that is ok as the legislature has decided to save money by cancelling the outside contracts of actuary firms and have the GET program and higher ed pensions handled internally by the state actuary's. Now some poor slobs in India and San Francisco are going to lose their actuarial jobs. Of course our actuaries office lost a staff member that will not be replaced. So, the 54 hour weeks continue (salary, so no overtime pay).
She does not complain as prior to her state job, she did work in the private sector and knows what happens in the "real" world. Out here, people get fired, demoted or take pay cuts at the whim of the boss. No thoughtful discussions or contemplations needed.
Of course my job pays about 28% of what my normal pay would be in good times.
Reality is most of us are doing what needs to be done to get by. We really are in this together.
I wonder how much money we could save if we didn't educate illegals, provide for their medical and ER visits or give them in state tuition rates at the universities. Maybe the earned income credit that gives them bigger refunds than they paid in could be discontinued and the feds could divert that money back to the states for state employee pay.

[Peter]

I thought this blog was about radio?

[sparky]

Heh...I was pretty angry when i wrote it joanie..
Like anything written during a time of anger or frustration, I see I didn't articulate the forehead - slapping irony: All of these cuts to education--not just salary-- and at the same time the state ramps up the number of tests your kids and grandkids have to take. At this time in my career, Im used to having the Legislature play with my salary. But while you all debate on whether or not I am worthy of being paid at all, whether I work 3 hours, 150 days or all year round, you are ignoring the larger problem--your kids and grandkids are losing valuable learning time because they are sitting in a library somewhere filling in little bubbles with a computer mouse. The irony that propelled me to write this is the idea that according to some politicians who have never taught a minute of school have decided that we aren't testing enough, yet they are removing almost an entire trimester--a third of a school year--where we could actually teach kids thing, and instead we are testing them. 5 different tests, 4 of which are given multiple times during the year. I am a skilled, experienced, and licensed professional. I don't need an outsourced standardized test -- marketed by people who haven't set foot in my school -- to tell me how my students are doing.

I know how my students are doing because I work directly with them. I learn their strengths and weaknesses through first-hand experience, and I know how to tailor instruction to meet each student's needs. But in the eyes of many, that kind of nuance has no value.

They are making cuts that put your kids in a classroom stuffed with other kids where they will get less individual time with their teacher, especially if your kid does "ok"--the teacher's attention will be on those kids who really struggle. They cut our supplies. They cut in areas that make some learning environments less safe. Yet we are expected to have 100% of all children --ALL children--meeting state standards by 2014.

I don't really care if you think I am worth my salary or not. It wont change the fact that every morning, joanie and I will get up and drive to school and work with your kids and grandkids and give them the education they deserve. It's just that they could be getting an even better one if they were spending more time learning and a lot less time testing.

[ProgBlogJunky]

No Joanie, you dont take me seriously because you know im smarter. Yes im sure Sparky works more than 150 days. But do the math. Or better yet do Sparkys math.

If the state cuts her pay by 1.9% and she says her pay will be cut by up to 4% because of 3 days. Well you get 150 days. Those are her words. I didnt make them up. If she cant do the simple math, then how can the parents of those she teaches trust she can teach thier children.

[ProgBlogJunky]

All this complaining from the left these days. Yet have they even thought that if they didnt vote for Gregoire or Obama in 2008 everything would be alot better.

Sparky was more than likely one of those who bought into Gregoires "We dont have a deficit" and we all know she voted for this "Change" with her vote for Obama. Yet she complains when all the blame really falls on herself.

[Andrew]

one of those who bought into Gregoires "We dont have a deficit"

For the record, nobody voted for Gregoire. We all voted against Rossi.

[Coiler]

I say send the little shits home at 12 noon so the PBJ's out there have to run home and yell at them to get off his lawn. BTW Chucks, you never talk about the employers who hire illegals. Aren't they here for the tax breaks and other perks by not having to pay their fair share?

[Sarah]

Well said Sparky. We have misplaced priorities and we should realize that the true import of any society is in the education of it's children. Nothing is more important. If we continue to fail to recognize this we shall fail as a viable society.

[Pete]

My wife has taught at the same school for nearly 20 years, and has exactly the same complaints about testing. So do every one of her co-workers I've ever talked with about it. I can't think of another professional arena - except maybe women's health care - where nonprofessionals make interfering public policy, based on ideology rather than best practices, that screws up so much of the mission.

And before the mindless right-wing ideologues launch in: my wife and her colleagues are not union members. They work in a private school. Which has exactly the same issues, except that they get paid even less - my wife makes about $25k a year after 20 years - and the parents pay astronomical tuitions because it's expensive to educate kids. And these are the easiest kids to teach: ones from wealthier households, with educated and involved parents in good neighborhoods. The task of a public school teacher in an urban district like Seattle is exponentially harder, and the educating more expensive: many more ESL kids, disabled kids, kids from broken or abusive families, etc.

My heart just bleeds for the guy who's suffering in sales. Not that 70% pay cuts don't suck - they do. But, one, I'll bet he's still making a lot more than my wife ever did. More importantly, there are very few sales jobs that are nearly as important to our society as what teachers do for us and our kids. (I'll be the first to admit - I get paid more for my work than she does, and my work is less valuable than hers, too.) The US, as a percentage of median incomes, also pays its teachers far less than other developed countries. Instead, we pay billions to hedge fund managers for moving around other people's money. Or we handsomely reward someone like gbs for facilitating the transfer of material goods from one owner to another.

I can only come to two conclusions about our society: 1) Too many of us adults are selfish assholes. 2) We hate kids.

[chucks]

Coiler, I fully support strong financial sanctions against those that employ illegals, and jail or prison for re offenders. I have been thoroughly been brow beaten right here at Blatherwatch in the past for these beliefs.
As for Sparky's litany of complaints, there is little there for which I can disagree. Moderate testing on occasion is probably necessary, but we are well in to overkill. I stand by my basic point that we are all in this together.
Sales taxes are down because people are not buying anything more than they have to. Property taxes are down because property values are down (and sinking more). Income taxes are down because....B&O taxes are down due to reduced business....fuel taxes down because 10 or 15% of the work force is not driving to work (can you imagine fuel prices if we had full employment?)...etc.
Now, what is the solution? I don't know fully but believe that the rich need to invest in anything that builds business and pay rolls. I drove through Fife yesterday and saw where Robert Larson is building a couple of new dealerships where an RV dealer used to be before the democrats took congress. That'll put a hundred people back to work. Won't fully pick up the jobs lost at the other 5 closed up dealerships in Fife, but is a start.
Now, democrats are still in control of the office of POTUS, The US Senate, the Governors office, the state Senate and house.
We control the US House of Representatives. Who do you suppose controls the proverbial ball?
Your pain is not unfelt as well Pete. As a grandfather, I have paid for the last nine years of private school for my grand daughter, except for one semester of middle school during my prolonged unemployment period that proved a disaster. Next year, she starts high school in a public school. I know that we are not the only parents having to make this choice. This will only hurt your bride and the kids more. I really am sorry. (but I do not believe that you are a selfish asshole that hates kids)

[sparky]

Junkie..the three lost planning LID days are not the total amount that makes my cut total close to 4%. I am also losing my supplimental librarian contract for working 5 extra days at the beginning or end of the year,and my supplimental contract for being a district technology rep. for holding training sessions in the summer and mentoring new teachers. There are also building supervisory stipends I work for that will be gone.
The reason I even brought up the LID days was in reference to losing 3 entire days of professional planning with teachers, analyzing data from assessments and fine tuning our instruction to help kids meet learning goals. Yes I lose the pay I got on those days, but more importantly, time to collaborate is almost non-existent, and now even that is gone.

[Puget Sound Blathers]

as one with kids, i can attest that the multiple testing is counterproductive. I really agree with Sparky on that. (see, pigs do fly...)
now i'll come back down to earth.

in terms of the school budgets i ask why is it that the Dem Gov's going back to Mike Lowry and the Dem controlled Legislature (for at least the last ten years) have consistently ignored our Wa State Constitution which states our constitution states that: “It is the paramount duty of the state to make ample provision for the education of all children."

Can't blame Republicans for that. And if you want to talk about unfunded mandates from the Fed Gov't, fine but lets get into all the unfunded mandates passed by the Dem Legislature and imposed on Counties and Cities.

And if you want to 'blame Bush and evil Republicans' at the Fed level lets understand you had 2 years of complete largely veto proof majorities to undo any of the Bush era educational requirements with control of the House, Senate, and the Executive Branch.

please enlightened progressives, explain the failure of the Democrats to fully fund education.

I'm waiting...

[ProgBlogJunky]

Thanks for clearing that up Sparky. But like i told Alpha there, i know you work more than 150 days.

Times are rough. I am sure you will get through. I would bet this is not what you thought it would be like when you voted in 2008. Sleep in the bed you made as i am. Maybe next time you will see that rough in the diamond you think is so pretty.

[sparky]

Its not about the pay. I have lived through cuts before. But kids get one chance to be in elementary school and learn the basics. Spending all this time testing is insane.

[Radio Queen]

I agree, Sparky, that the obsession with testing is crazy and provides no more than a false sense of accountability. I've been involved with HSPE (morphing into EOC) testing at the high school level for the last several years, and when I see the money that is being spent on the testing process that could be spent in the classrooms, it infuriates me.

Your comment that our current budget problem "comes about because of a man named Tim Eyman" is giving the man too much credit (or blame). Eyman is not one of those rich, greedy republicans the left loves to crow about--he is one man who has been calling out the democrats on their propensity to spend and then raise taxes to fund their habit. As PS points out, the Washington State legislature has had a democratic majority in one or both the house and senate in 21 of the last 32 years. Why have they not chosen to adequately fund education?

[sparky]

Right now it's because they can't raise revenue. Eyeman's initiative prevents it without that 2/3 vote even though it violates the simple majority provision in the state constitution. So, what else should they cut?

Fortunately, some of the Dems in Oly are beginning to question the 2/3 law..
When the rule was challenged in 2009 by state senate majority leader Sen. Lisa Brown,(it was I-960 back then) the state supreme court dismissed her case, and ruled that she brought the case “improperly” because she hadn’t taken the appropriate steps in the legislature to resolve the issue herself. As a result, the court said it didn’t have the right to interfere in legislative matters.

So. I hit the Google and I found out that "when a tax measure comes up, the Legislature has to formally ask: how many votes are required; does that two-thirds requirement violate the constitution; and can the legislature vote to change the rule?"

The good news is that last night, the state house Democrats forced a floor vote on Rep. Laurie Jinkins' bill to repeal an $83 million bank loophole and shift the money to K-3 class size reductions. The Democrats knew they needed a two-thirds majority and only got 52 votes (it was 52-42 in a straight party line vote),so they knew they would lose. BUT it provided an opportunity to ask those questions I googled...and just before the vote was taken Reps. Jinkins,Pedersen and Frockt, all lawyers, each asked those questions before the vote. Speaker Rep. Frank Chopp then ruled that the constitutional question was up to the courts to decide! Heh.

Hopefully they will begin the path to overturning the initiative, just like most of Eyeman's things are overturned in court! Expect to see lots of local groups of teachers, parents, PTA folks and concerned community members working to get the facts out to the public.
(thank you Mary Lindquist for your insightful and informative emails)
And I won't comment on your view of what Eyeman is "not."

[Puget Sound Blathers]

sparky
first off, i love the pic of you although somehow i figured you looked a little different. anywhoo, blaming eyman's initiatives are only valid for two years at which time the legislature is free to overturn 'em.
eyman then must go before the people again and put it on a ballot and have it pass.
what you really have going on is a failure of leadership. why isn't Gov Gregoire using her bully pulpit to go before the people and pushing for sufficient funding of education? i saw how she crapped over the people of federal way school district.
sure would have been nice to get that tribal gambling money. every other state that has tribal gambling gets a cut. we get bupkis. she made a poor deal for the people of Washington.

[joanie]

before the democrats took congress.

Is anybody else as tired of chux' ignorance as I am? Eight years of corruption under Bush and thirty years of deregulation under mostly Republicans, and all he can say is . . .

The man is an absolute idiot.

[joanie]

Nopw that's a good idea, ps. First the Republicans steal it from their own - you and me - and now you advocating stealing it from the first nation people. Why not? That's a very republican thing to do. Keep stealing.

Is there absolutely no integrity on the right? They'd rather take it from Native Americans than the people who stole ours.

[chucks]

Well joanie, hereafter, when you see my name to a post, just go past it. If you don't read it, you can stay your ignorant self and not be offended.
Are these first nation people you speak of illegals from Canada?
The Indians use fire, medical, schools, roads and all of the rest of the services provided by the rest of us. Gregoire and Co has contracted that no other citizens can compete with the tribes in most favored forms of casino gaming. PS is again right and, as usual, you are bleeding heart wrong.
Quit being a dumb ass (if you can).

[ProgBlogJunky]

Sparky, you are all over the page on this. First it was about the money. 4% paycut. Now its about the children. Typical Progressive segue.

And on all this testing and the LIDs. You said you analyzed the testing on these LIDs to fine tune your instruction. Now you say the testing is just a waste of time. Which would then mean that all that analyzing of the testing to fine tune your instruction was just a waste of time. Or for that matter a waste of taxpayer money.

I dont envy the job of the teacher. But it was your generation that took the tool of corporal punishment out of schools. My dad would tell me his teacher always had a paddle at the ready for any student misbehaving or a ruler at his side if they caught someone sleeping. Not to mention that dunce cap or the nose in the corner for those that failed a quiz. Today, such measures would get you suspended for a day. But back then it earned respect. That is why my Dad remembers his teachers form his youth. Unlike me, i couldnt tell you any of thier names. Teachers just dont stand out anymore. They are like robots on a production line.

[Rat_Bastard]

Please don't think that the wealthier people are not also suffering. Our income has been cut by 70%...we are in sales. We are suffering as well. We all need to tighten our belts and get through this the best way we can.
Posted by: gbs

Not the teachers.
They're "special" because they do their jobs out of love for the children.
Unless, of course they have to live within reality like the rest of us...
Then it's protesting and picketing and screaming about how awful they're being treated.
Teachers are the most OVER Rated, OVER paid, and OVER "appreciated" members of our work force.
Part time employees wanting to be treated as full time employees and have no concept of what a savings account is.
They don't need one...
Pampered for life.

[sparky]

Good morning Junk and Bastard! I would stay to chat more but my driver just told me he has pulled the Viper into the courtyard ( with a freshly sanded 2x4 in the trunk for whacking kids) and so I must depart. Have a terrific Friday gentlemen!

[Puget Sound Blathers]

lmao, i have a mental image of the pic of sparky above sitting in a two seat viper with a driver and a bufford pusser 'walking tall' piece of lumber hanging out the window.

seriously, why can't you hold any of the Dems accountable for the failed school funding policies? Dem Gov, Dem Legislature, and a constitution that states you'll fund education as a paramount duty.

Yet the Dems can't get it done. (remind you all of the 2008 Congress?)

[Puget Sound Blathers further deconstruction of joanie]

Nopw that's a good idea, ps. First the Republicans steal it from their own - you and me - and now you advocating stealing it from the first nation people. Why not? That's a very republican thing to do. Keep stealing.

Is there absolutely no integrity on the right? They'd rather take it from Native Americans than the people who stole ours.

Posted by: joanie | May 26, 2011 at 10:29 PM

poor joanie, when facts come to play her poor brain goes in disarray.

the tribes offered to make the deal with us, brainiac.
out of all the states that have tribal gambling, we are the only one that gets bupkis. the deal that the tribe offered was to pay us a deal that would have given us between 40 to 140 million per year. i can name some programs that could have used that money.

gov gregoire will go down as one of the most ineffective governors of our state.

lets see, who is the resident fool on this blog that repeatedly stated that she thinks one day Gov Gregoire will be President?

Clue: when facts come into play, this poster's brain goes in disarray.

[Puget Sound Blathers deconstructs the usual suspects]

and on the topic of inconsistent Democrats, note that the Pres just signed an extension of the USAPATRIOT Act.

What's up with that Joanie, Sparky, Coiler, Andrew, et all.

You'll hated it when Bush was President but as long as it is Pres Obama renewing it the USAPATRIOT Act is ok.

So where you all wrong then and Bush right about the USAPATRIOT Act?

(when facts come into play, the Dems go in disarray)

[ProgBlogJunky]

Now theres a book theme for Tommy.

Walking Tall III: Teachers v's the Super Rich.

[ProgBlogJunky]

When the Gov cant control the Rich, She calls for the Sparkinator.

[ProgBlogJunky]

Hey, has Obama made his way to Joplin Mo. yet. I gave the shrub hell over his reaction to Katrina but have seen nothing from the Progressives about Obama hob knobbing with Royalty while people are suffering from all these tornados.

One more thing. Any catch Big Ed appolgizing to Ingram and getting suspended. To funny.

[joanie]

Bastard, you and chux aren't that different. He just says it while you just think it. Maybe you're worse. Two more corrupt republicans.

And to the Queen (and PS by default), how would you all suggest they fund education better without revenue? You both like to blame but neither takes responsibility for your parts in the inability to raise revenue. Neither one of you did anything in your posts except cast blame without producing a single specific. If it's not Tim Eyman, then what is it?

[joanie]

I am curious about Pete's wife. I can't imagine any certificated teacher in the Seattle area drawing $25,000 a year. Unless, possibly, an early childhood teacher. We pay these people even worse. Even private schools that I know pay better than that. There's no taking into account cost of living in teaching. teachers in Eastern WA where the cost of living is less make the same.

Frankly, in Seattle, instructional aides did better than beginning teachers until about five years ago when beginning teachers finally got bumped up.

[ksr]

Wow... all over the place here, as usual. Entertaining, if nothing else.

Left, right, rich, teacher... few here are willing to look past their own nose.

I've never thought that teachers get paid what they should. On the other side of that, I think their unions are as big part of their problem as is the State.

What is a teacher worth? Nobody will say, though it's generally agreed it's more than they get. However, they're hell-bent to collectively bargain a better contract than they had last time (or illegally strike), then continue to insist that the State isn't "fully funding" education.

When somebody can plant a real number in my face, as to what a teacher with a certain level of experience, education and performance is worth... AND what kind of number constitutes a fully funded "basic" education, then we've got something to talk about.

Until then, it's all a lot of emotional bullshit. So long as real numbers aren't put on the table, most teachers will not be satisfied with what they make... and the unions will most definitely not be.

And the non-teaching (but voting) population of this state will be forever guilted by the teachers and unions for "not caring about kids"... also horseshit, but it's about all the teachers can say. The number, which they will most certainly not be satisfied with, can not be identified.

[Puget Sound Blathers more instructions to Joanie]

And to the Queen (and PS by default), how would you all suggest they fund education better without revenue? You both like to blame but neither takes responsibility for your parts in the inability to raise revenue. Neither one of you did anything in your posts except cast blame without producing a single specific. If it's not Tim Eyman, then what is it?

Posted by: joanie | May 27, 2011 at 07:22 AM

I demonstrated how Gov Gregoire turned down the public offer from the Tribes that would have brought up to $140 million a year into our coffers. Her rationale was lame and self serving. Look it up. (again, we are the only state that gets nothing for providing roads, services, etc etc to get those folks to and from the reservations...the only state!)
Second, blaming Eyman when it is the voters who vote those initiatives into law is ridiculous. Why doesn't Gov Gregoire use her role as Gov to take him on when these initiatives are before the voters? Why is she such a coward to face Eyman? (note to Joanie: he isn't too popular a public figure at this point)
She IS the Governor after all. (or maybe she wants 'em to pass which would explain her token efforts to defeat 'em)
Third, the budget in WA grew faster than the rate of inflation or population over the past ten years prior to the recent economic slowdown. Of all the things to cut, school funding is something we can rally around.
Stop making apologies for the Democratic Party in this state. Stand up like a real Progressive and demand more. That is, if you are a real Progressive.

[Coiler]

"Later folks. And for the record, if anyone sees a post under this handle be it known that it will not be from me."

Posted by: Puget Sound | January 13, 2011 at 05:07 AM

[Puget Sound Blathers deconstructs Coiler]

that's all you got, coils?
figured you run away from the facts.
LMAO
why avoid the substance?
btw, i was invited to reconsider. I did. what's your problem with that? take it up with Blam if you got an issue with my return.
oh wait, maybe the fact that I deconstruct your crappy arguments and make you look silly might be the problem.

[Coiler]

"Later folks. And for the record, if anyone sees a post under this handle be it known that it will not be from me."

Posted by: Puget Sound | January 13, 2011 at 05:07 AM

Is this the person whom I'm speaking with? How do we know it's you?

[Puget Sound Blathers]

too damn funny.
we'll take the above response to mean you can't deal with the reality of the post so you need to skedaddle.

go ahead, it just makes you look weak.

[Fremont]

What happens to the massive testing data? What critical information does it reveal and what imperative decisions are made because of testing results?

[a 20-something]

Andrew is correct, it comes down to competancy of the teachers.

teach smarter, not harder.

[The Anti-Dori]

KSR, what is anybody worth? Can you tell me? Is someone worth more because the product has an exhorbitant profit margin? Does the person who is responsible for your kids when you go out have a higher value than the man who delivers products to the grocery store or oil to the gas station?

How does anyone determine value? Is determining value unique to teachers?

Puget Sound, I have yet to read any comment by you "deconstructing" anything. I'm sorry to say it, but I have not. I think Joanie made her point. Tapping the tribes for money may be your answer but it is not everyone's. I think Joanie's question stands.

[sparky]

That is the million dollar question Fremont.

[sparky]

So, "20-something", do you think that students and parents bear any responsibility for their learning, or just the teacher?

[Coiler]

If you watch the Wire, you'll see how statistics play a larger role in everything from schools to police in determining 'success'.