Privatizing the ferries: "yes, but how would it work in theory?"

  We heard Master of the Puny-Verse Dori Monson (KIROFM m-f, 12-3p)  blarting Thursday about privatizing the Washington State ferries.

Privatization of the ferry system is one of those things that low-info/high-volume libertarians accept and repeat at face value (they call it a "no-brainer," we would agree) but it's a "laugh-out-louder" to those who actually know the state's history.

Washington ferries were privately run from the 1930's until 1951.

it didn't work out.

The system back then was owned and operated by the affable, colorful, but "willful" Captain Alexander Peabody, who had a virtual monopoly on cross-Sound traffic.

He kept fares low during WWWII, out of pure patriotism, but in 1947, just as the cost of living was skyrocketing, he hiked rates up 30%.

This time it was the public’s turn to be outraged. Commuters were tired of being held hostage and of paying their own ransom, and many wished the government would launch its own ferry system. Even those who didn’t like the thought of a government-run ferry system felt that it was a necessary short-term fix until numerous planned bridges could be built across Puget Sound, negating the need for ferries altogether.

When the ferry ops no longer penciled, they simply tied up the boats.

At one point,

Citizens and government agencies helped out by providing war-surplus landing craft, buses, light aircraft and yachts to transport commuters from shore to shore and around the sound.

The people who want utilities (especially transportation) to be run like businesses, are usually those who don't use said businesses.

This is libertarianism at its finest.

Comments

[Fatso]

None of this will matter one bit when the year 2000 comes and I get my flying car...

[Taygee]

Butbutbut EVERYTHING can be done better in the private sector!

Just lookit the military...

[JDB]

I would be all in favor of privatizing the ferries, but only after they privatize the highways in Eastern Washington, which is the real drain on the transportation budget.

[Rich]

GOD BLESS TIM EYMAN, MAY HE BURN IN HELL

[gorkri]

This sounds like our own version of disaster capitalism as outlined by Naomi Klein in "The Shock Doctrine" There have to be changes in how the ferry system runs and is financed but making it a profit center will be a disaster.

[joanie]

At one time I thought the ferries were too big a subsidy because people choose to live on the islands and I always considered that kind of a luxury. I'd love to live on any island - esp. Bainbridge - with a view of course. So, is it fair for all of us to pay the way to make that possible for people? I don't know.

If we privatized the ferries, there would probably no regular people over there. The islands would have turned into luxury estates.

Ferries are a big expense for a relatively small group of people. Or am I wrong? Tell me if I am. I wonder about it.

As for E WA - I'm one of those who would to lose them. Let's become a nice little blue state west of the Cascades. I'd love that. Add E WA to the pan handle of Idaho.

[Coiler]

It would be a new group of states called the Empty Quarter.

Wasn't it delicious to see that the 112th congress screwed up even more with their violation of the constitution by allowing 2 members to vote before they were sworn in.

[Ted Smith]

Pierce and Whatcom Counties already run their ferries (except for Pierce County's Point Defiance run). How is that working? Shouldn't we check before we unilaterally give these ferries over to the Counties?

And most ferries cross a County Line. Who pays for what? Who negotiates with the Unions, contractors, and other service providers?

How will County control affect the tourist industry?

Bremerton needs a ferry to Seattle a lot worse than Seattle needs a ferry to Bremerton. Suppose King County tells Kitsap County to run their own ferry? Suppose that Snohomish County decides that the Mulkiteo ferry to Island County isn't worth paying for. Will San Juan County subsidize make each island pay for its own service? What becomes of the ferry to Sidney BC?

Past pre-Ferry example. The Legislature provided money to build a road between Mt. Vernon and Bellingham. B'ham wanted to protect its harbor traffic and Whatcom County refused to cooperate with Skagit COunty. Finally the State stepped in and forced them to build what is now Chuckanut Drive.

I somehow doubt that the Counties will cooperate with each other. But it probably won't matter because the Counties will hire a private contractor who will make all of the decisions.

[EvergreenRailfan]

Ted, maybe worth looking into. Washington State Ferries co-operates with Pierce County, though. Before the Chetzemoka was built, they were borrowing Pierce County's Stellicoom II for the Port Townsend-Keystone run. Pierce County, unlike Whatcom and Skagit Counties, had a spare boat to make up while their big boat was on loan. When the Christine Anderson was in the shop for inspection and maintenance, WSF lent Pierce COunty, the Rhododendron. I was thinking the King County Ferry District could use some reform, such as make the boats be able to load and unload faster, so the commuter boat, the Vashon Foot Ferry, can make more runs, because some of their runs have to turn passengers away(Coast Guard Rules). The Passenger Vessel Association, at the behest of the Governor did a study on the governance. I read part of it. They studied a few other models, BC Ferries, North Carolina DOT, Massachusetts Steamship Authority, and a few private operators in NY(not the Staten Island Ferry, that is heavily subsidized by the city and fare-free). I was shocked to see WSF's farebox recovery ration was higher than the supposedly private BC Ferries, and 10 times more than the NCDoT, which was the operator in the study closest to the WSF model.

Joanie, sometimes the Eastern half of our state has redeeming value. Tonight was one of those times. You know that former teacher's college in Cheney that is now Eastern Washington University? We won the Divison 1 Football Championship Subdivision National Title tonight! Delaware had a 19-0 lead and a powerful alumni cheerleader(the VP), but we had a QB that is great in 4th Down conversions. 20-19 is a win, and we were on a shoestring. Instead of charter buses to get to a charter flight, they used Cheney School District buses to get to the airport to catch the charter flight. Oops, too far OT.

[Radio Queen]

Before we say that privatization will never work, let's at least look at how the system is currently being run. The inefficiencies are too numerous to state (KING 5 News has been exposing them on a regular basis). What would happen if we weren't paying ferry workers state wages/benefits? How much would that offset required rate increases? Government Gregoire always says, "It can't be done," immediately followed by "without tax increases." All she's done is moved the tax increases from the state (where we gave a resounding "NO") to the counties. Hmmm...does she think we're that stupid???

[ExPatBrit]

EvergreenRailfan, most of us in the Blue part of the state recognize the value of Eastern Washington's contribution, however the whining from some of those rugged individualists gets really old. The only way to make them wake up might be to stop subsidizing them with our tax dollars. If that means some of their farm / orchard crops get more expensive I can live with that.

I have friends who are transplants from Eastern Washington and even they recognize the obvious hypocrisy.

Maybe de-funding the socialist infrastructure that keeps them alive might be a good idea.

[joanie]

Queen: So, the answer to every financial question is to lower the wages of average people. You've bought into the propaganda. Decent wages, hours and working conditions were achieved because some people lost their lives, and the workforce in general felt pain and suffering to get what we seem to want to give away. You may or may not be part of the general workforce, but you take lightly giving away that which your forebears suffered to gain.

Unless you are one of the monied class, why pick on your friends and neighbors and ask them to sacrifice a decent living?

I'm all for cleaning up inefficiencies but I personally experienced an attack by KING 5 on a magistrate in the Seattle Municipal Court. It was tawdry. They used words out of context and clips that were biased for effect. That magistrate was not my favorite but I'll never forget the abusive way King 5 biased its report to show a really decent magistrate in a bad light.

Remember, media goes for the affective: it wants to make you emotional because that's what brings you back.

[KS]

That magistrate was not my favorite but I'll never forget the abusive way King 5 biased its report to show a really decent magistrate in a bad light.

Remember, media goes for the affective: it wants to make you emotional because that's what brings you back.

Posted by: joanie | January 08, 2011 at 10:54 AM

Uh-huh...You roundly criticize KING-5, but it also appears that you took some lessons from KING-5 and employ these style of tactics here. (oh yes -your mantra - Don't do as I do, do as I say) :-)

[Ted Smith]

Evergreenrailfan, thanks for that. I am now more familiar with Pierce County's ferry operation. I was mainly wondering if Whatcom and/or Pierce Counties had any insight that we could use.

Whatcom side story: The County runs a ferry to Lummi Island and the mainland ferry dock is on Tribal land. the County has a 20-year contract to pay the Lummi Tribe each month but the Tribe is now trying to repudiate the contract and get more money from Whatcom. Their excuse is that the Feds never actually ratified the contract and now Whatcom is in mediation with the same Feds who apparently dropped the ball. Or maybe not - the picture is unclear. Stay tuned.

Fully-subsidized and fare free. Hmmmm. That sounds a lot like how it would be if highways crossed Puget Sound (if the water were not there. Sorta like, oh, let's say Eastern Washington.

If the State provides free highways, shouldn't it provide free transportation that takes the place of a highway? Just wondering.

[Radio Queen]

@ Joanie, who states "So, the answer to every financial question is to lower the wages of average people."

Having been a state employee for more than 25 years, I can tell you that Washington's state employees are well above "average" when it comes to their salary/benefit packages. There is still so much waste and inefficiency in state government (remember, I've seen it firsthand in a multitude of agencies), and most of these folks wouldn't last a minute in the private sector. They've never had to worry about the bottom line--they just have to spend their government-given budgets. I just don't buy Government Gregoire's lament that we "can't possibly cut any more." Raising taxes is her easy answer to those unions to whom she's beholding.

As far as your comments about KING 5 news being biased, I'm still laughing--you finally realize that FOX, MSNBC, KING 5, NBC/CBS/ABC, Washington Post, Huffington Post--you name the media outfit--they're all cut from the same cloth, aren't they?

[joanie]

Don't we pay for the building and maintenance of those highways in our taxes so how can you consider them to be truly free? And we have toll bridges. HIghways are necessary for inter-and-intra-state commerce. Are ferries?

Also, how and why did Pierce and Whatcom counties keep their control over the ferries? Do they earn a profit for the counties or do they end up operating at a loss?

[joanie]

Queen: I never said they were all perfect. Cut from the same cloth? No. I think your generalization about media and your generalization about state workers lead to the same conclusion we've made about all the rightwingers on this blog: you(they) lack the ability to nuance, think critically and appreciate diversity and difference.

Can you respond with more specifics? I've been a City worker for thirty years: there are people who are less productive and those who are more productive. Just like in the private sector where I worked for ten years. And as a teacher, I can guarantee you this state/school district worker works off the clock routinely for less than great pay.

You're doing what the rest of your ilk do: generalize and paint with a broad brush but without specifics or facts. I gave you both.

And where on this blog have you ever read from me that MSM is reliably informative which is why I link and cite resources. And why I have posted over and over that MSM isn’t reliable.

Fixed News isn’t just unreliable, they are a recognized political arm of a particular party. I’m not going to have a pissing match with you about whether or not they are just like every other media outlet because they aren’t. I won’t argue the wetness of water. It’s a fact.

BTW, are you one of those overpaid do-nothing workers? If you are, you could help solve the problem. if you're not, you could help solve the problem

[KS]

Joanie - you are unreliable as a political arm of a particular wing of a particular party. I'll take ABC,CBS and Fox and even CNN over your blogging any day of the week.

Sheesh...

[markdog]

In the 1980's the Inland Boatman's Union went on strike, shutting down the by then state run ferries.