Fox news audiences aren't the only ones...

Thanks Al Peterson - NTS Media Online:

 November 2010 ratings are out for the cable news and Talk shows and FOX News is home to every one of the Top 10 rated shows, including perennial #1 finisher The O’Reilly Factor with Bill O’Reilly. Rounding out the rest of FNC’s sweep of the Top 10 (in descending order) are: Special Report with Brett Baier; Sean Hannity; Glenn Beck; The FOX Report with Shepard Smith; On The Record with Greta van Susteren; Your World with Neil Cavuto; The O’Reilly Factor (11pm repeat); America’s Newsroom; and Studio B with Shepard Smith. FNC’s midday show, America Live with Megyn Kelly, just missed the November Top 10, coming in at #11.

Seems it's not only the mouth-breathing Fox News audience who thrives on low information- seems civic ignorance floats all boats...

Consider the results of a Pew Research Poll from last month:

1. Fewer than half of all Americans know that Republicans will have a majority in the House next year… A shocking 66% asked, "Who's house? Not my house..."

2. But 38 percent identified Rep. John Boehner as the incoming House Speaker; while 16% said they thought it more fair if everyone got a chance to speak. A brutal 44% said they didn't believe the country was ready for a man of his color in such a high office, another 66% couldn't abide with a leader named "Boner" no matter what.

4. Three times as many under 30's could properly identify Google’s new phone software, Android, as could identify Boehner.

5. Thirteen percent thought 'Newt' Gingrich was in charge of reptiles at "a zoo in DC," while twice that believed Nancy Pelosi was "the Wiccan lesbian mother-in-law on The Bold & The Beautiful." 

6. Seventy seven percent identified Log Cabin Republicans as "a conservative club of senior citizens who love camping" while half that thought they were just conservatives who "liked syrup on their pancakes."

 

Comments

[Andrew]

You know the American people don't have it all that bad when they can't be bothered to know these things. We've been robbed, but not robbed enough to get up out of chairs over.

[sparky]

....wincing at your last sentence Andrew...

When Fox is a Basic Cable station, and MSNBC is on the premium line-up, it would be safe to say that more people watch the stations that are on their sets.

[sparky]

They like syrup on their sausages and eggs too.

[Kato]

I have to say that it provides me no end of amusement when you lefties whine about the success of Fox News. Isn't ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, and every newspaper in the country enough for you?

Would it kill you to just let us have our one TV channel?

At least, however, you seem to have a sense of humor about it, which is the primary reason I somewhat enjoy reading your posts.

That and you do actually have some interesting information to share, most of the time, anyway.

[Andrew]

Saying CNN is leftist is like saying the truth is leftist.

[Puget Sound]

Want some 'truth' Andy? How about some from you.

Why does the Left stand for the fact that it has become easier, for the US to kill suspected terrorists (and all of the innocents such as children) via Predator Drone Strikes that don't discern between suspects/innocents than to capture and interrogate them.

How about a little bit of intellectual honesty here, folks?

We can't go back in time but we can surely denounce this practice, right? I am talking to all the blog posters here that denounced 'torture' aka waterboarding of individuals yet are okay with killing suspects and anyone who has the misfortune of standing alongside of 'em or be in a house in which one of the suspects runs inside.

Or is it okay as long as a Dem is pulling the switch?

How the hell do you all live with yourselves?

[The Anti-Dori]

Would someone put Puget Sound quietly to bed, please. He never knows what he's talking about. You're stuck in talking points, cap. puget. It gets old.

[Chucks]

Kato, The left can not have a FNC out there allowing another point of view, the truth to escape and reach the ears and minds of the people.
The left ,justifiably, is afraid of the truth and the damage that it could do to their big plans for our future and the money we have earned.

[KS]

Double standards - Anti-Dori ?
How is CNN not left-leaning ? To Andrew and a number of others who visit this blog, the truth is leftist - nothing strange about that statement even if it is absurd.

I understand leftist seems mainstream in left-leaning Seattle, but this is living in a bubble. intellectually honest - it rarely exists in the mind of a leftist. Just listen to Ed Schultz, Olber-furher or Randi Rhodes to see how vapid and lacking of intellectual honesty - that's how they come across to many. There are a few leftists who show flashes of intellectual honesty like Lawrence O'Donnell. The problem is that if the left exposed their real agenda - they know that most people would reject it - case and point - the White House - so they rev up the propaganda machine - do I really need to go any farther ?

I liked the findings of the poll; revealing- it reflects that most sampled are apathetic and clueless about political knowledge, but when it comes to politics, people are emotional and it is a hot button to many. Too bad that much of the views held by many of them are based on misinformation - that's the country we live in.

[BlackRhino]

I take pleasure in syrup on my eggs and sausage when eating pancakes, Sparky. I decry anyone who disparages this wholesome tradition brought to us by the Canadians.

You will be flogged at noon.

[sparky]

You incorrectly assume I thought there was something wrong with that, BR....I am not a huge fan of pancakes but still like the syrup on the sausages.

[The Anti-Dori]

Haha. KS, we finally agree: the truth is leftist - nothing strange about that statement even if it is absurd.

Cap't Puget writes without specifics and tends to make more accusations than discuss policy or issues. He writes from emotion rather than intellect.

I have been listening to Rhodes tonight. So far I'm hearing facts. You can call them "left-leaning" but for people on the left, those facts keep us informed. If being informed is a "left" characteristic, then you're right. Your long commentary says very little that I wish to address. It is an emotional rant against the left and nothing more.

Can you address the news that the Bush administration gave out many more billions and trillions to the banks and corporations (including McDonalds) than was made public?

Can you address that since the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy fewer jobs have been created than before the tax cuts? That Swiss bank accounts have increased and profits for high-end stores (think Tiffany's - $55 million this year) are up exponentially?

Can you address the fact that you yourself take a government paycheck while you rail against big government?

There are many, many issues that could be discussed on this blog. It is, sadly, a radio blog. I enjoy checking in now and then but I fear that the responses from the right on this blog seem to be caught in a time warp of low information and high emotion. I read the same thin comments over and over. Surely you can do better.

[The Anti-Dori]

BTW, Sparky, keep repeating the fact that Fox News is basic cable while MSNBC and CNN, I believe, are premium. That has to do with money and our friends on the right should understand "money" even though they never seem to acknowledge it's power in poliltics.

[sparky]

When I travel, Fixed News and CNN are found in all the places I stay. Rarely do we find MSNBC available. In rural areas, that doesn't surprise me. But I was amazed a couple of years ago when Portland and Salem cable sent my mom a note telling her she would have to go to premium service if she wanted to continue to get MSNBC.

[Puget Sound]

would be nice if sparkles would stop whining about msnbc.
i'm on the road 120 nights a year and can catch msnbc pretty much anyplace i catch fox or cnn.

btw, still waiting for answers, all we get is scampering by the usual suspects.

[KS]

"I have been listening to Rhodes tonight. So far I'm hearing facts. You can call them "left-leaning" but for people on the left, those facts keep us informed. If being informed is a "left" characteristic, then you're right."

I can't specifically comment about tonight since I did not hear it. However, in past instances i have happened to listen or read about, she has often spouted liberal progressive talking points and takes a lot of her material from Media Matters, Daily KOS and the Huff Post - who I consider to be biased reported replete with half truths and quotes taken out of context. I'd be glad to cite an example or two or feel free to bring one up.

I disagree about being informed does not know left or right - I'd bet that both sides have an similar number of misinformed ignoramuses.

I am not a defender of the Bush administration. I was opposed to a lot of their economic policies.

"Can you address that since the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy fewer jobs have been created than before the tax cuts?"

What source do you have to supplement that ? That is probably difficult to prove. Do these statistics separate the effects of the TARP and Stimulus or do they try and lump it all together ? If so, the statistics are disingenuous and bogus.

I believe in efficiency and that one of governments' jobs is to provide services for the taxpayer, therefore I don't have a problem railing against big government - BTW - its the Federal government that I rail most against, not the state or local governments. There is a lot a waste (including military) fraud and nanny-statism from the Fed Government. The States should have more power than they do, as stated in the Constitution.

The information on here from the right or center seems to be primarily in response to the left - with certain leftist females who are caught in high emotion often with questionable information that is challenged and there is the issue of differing views that are brought out. If you and the left would be more truthful with the assertions, there would be less quasi-emotional reaction from those with opposing views/moderates or the right. Can you point out a specific issue of a "time warp of low information" ?

Reading the same thin comments over and over can similarly be said about the leftwing rants about tax breaks for the rich for the last 20 years, when there are a number of occasions that claim is dubious and there are others which can be cited. I don't disagree with all leftist views - for instance - I question why we are still in Iraq and Afghanistan at this time.

[Puget Sound]

spot on, KS.

don't you find it ironic that the same ones that bemoaned waterboarding -which is non lethal- as torture have no qualms about the use of predator drones to kill both 'suspects' and innocents that happen to be in the area.

but the usual suspects just scamper rather than answer.
(i'll pause as sparkles gets the machine cranking...)

[BlackRhino]

OK, Sparky I will be flogged at noon. I’d rather be flogged than Canadian.

[Puget Sound]

joanie hasn't been the same since andrew took her to the woodshed.

humiliating, yes.

oh well, i guess she can always default to 'tommy's a cranky racist.'

[The Anti-Dori]

I'd be glad to cite an example or two

Please do.

Do these statistics separate the effects of the TARP and Stimulus or do they try and lump it all together ?

The data is pre-tarp and stimulus. It has nothing to do with Obama. Yes, I'll look for sources. I thought that was common knowledge by now.

"emotional females" - I haven't noticed that kind of rhetoric from the females. Joanie gets emotional but generally cites sources and discusses ideas and policy. Sparky - see above - is generally agreeable and unemotional although she gets back a lot of emotion from you and Cap't Puget. Chux is generally congenial with her. If anyone is emotional consistently, I would suggest that person is Tommy!

Cap't Puget, you make my point again. "Usual suspects" and "machine cranking" and the association of waterboarding to predator drones are either name calling or illogical argument. I have not read anyone on this blog support predator drones. Has the subject come up? If anyone on this blog supports predator drones, I would suspect it to be Tommy. So, again, you confuse me. I've occasionally read both Sparky and Joanie express doubts about our President. That is why I consider their posts less inflammatory than yours or KS' and more intellectually honest.

[KS]

Yes, but I may be inclined to give them a pass here on using drones, simply because its an effective way to eradicate the Islamists who have no value for human life and are ever present menace to society.

The bemoaning of waterboarding was ridiculous in itself and actually produced some positive results that saved lives, in spite of what the leftwing propagandizers said - if Clinton or Obama had approved of waterboarding, you know that the media would have been mum on the topic. The protest was made primarily for political points, IMO.

I have a hard time believing that this administration pays attention to consequences when it comes to shutting down Gitmo or trying imprisoned terrorists in civilian courts. It's more for political points - they feel the urge to prove they are right and Bush was wrong on that issue... we'll see about that.

[The Anti-Dori]

And another: "whining" - I read no whining. That is another of your emotional characterizations without basis in fact. She stated the fact of her experience. Does basic cable include Fox News? It either does or it doesn't. Do you know?

[tigsnort]

Now for the good news.

While they may still be at the top, FOX's heavy hitters (O'Reilly, Hannity, Beck) are hemorrhaging viewers. Over the last year Beck has dropped 36% in the 25-54 demo. Alternately, Olbermann and Maddow have been growing their audience.

http://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP/

[Puget Sound]

ADD
probably depends on where you go. all i know, is where i go i have no trouble accessing msnbc or fox news.

still waiting for the answers to the more difficult questions.
i don't blame the usual suspects for wanting to avoid uncomfortable questions.
of course, dodging 'em is also an answer of sorts.

lmao

[The Anti-Dori]

Predator drones are an effective way to eliminate a lot civilians as well. That matters to some of us if not others.

There is no evidence waterboarding gave us any information. Do you not know that? None at all. That has been confirmed.

Waterboarding is torture as defined in international law and we have prosecuted people for waterboarding. We hanged Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American Soldiers after WW2. They were tried for war crimes and hanged. Did you not know that?

It is torture. If you don't know that, I submit you are the ill-informed and low-information person.

I have a hard time believing ...

Then read accounts, find other sources of information, and know the facts. You won't have to believe.

[Puget Sound]

ks,
recall earlier this year when the Obama administration tried to bring Khalid Sheik Mohammed to Civilian Trial in NY 'to show the world' the american jurisprudence system, the former Constitutional Law Professor -Pres Obama- when asked what happens if the Suspect was found Not Guilty, he replied that we would not release him anyway.
which pretty much defeated the reason for bringing him to trial...

the problem with Predator Drones is that we kill scores of civilians and end up making even more terrorists.

[Puget Sound]

ADD
what the japanese did was actually kill americans via waterboarding.
we did not kill anyone and the injuries were temporary in nature.

so you feel justified in launching a predator drone to kill a 'suspected' member of al queda who runs into a house full of innocents?

slippery slope, add, slippery slope.

[The Anti-Dori]

ADD
probably depends on where you go. all i know, is where i go i have no trouble accessing msnbc or fox news.

So you don't know. Perhaps you should check to see if you are purchasing basic cable or a premium service. That would make a difference wouldn't it?

I'm sorry but I didn't read any difficult questions. My experience in reading this blog is that few of them seriously talk to you. If you want to pose a "difficult" question, I'll give it a try. I've spent more time than I can afford here but I'm willing to try an exchange if it is a reasonable topic.

[KS]

Here is an example of leftwing bias - over the top attacks -

The liberal progressives love to ridicule "teabaggers" which is shown here

From what I understand basic cable include Fox News and CNN, but not MSNBC. There are disputed claims on the effectiveness of waterboarding - depends on your political stripe, primarily. I have read both sides of the issue. There are other methods of persuasion, such as a sleep deprivation or loud music - that can all take their toll, but why change the protocol from WW II here - just to appease peaceniks ? National Security in times of war requires drastic measures and unfortunately we are still in a war.

[KS]

The topic of the link was not directly related to ridicule of teabaggers - my oops, but you can still see the irony. Am signing off for now - will bring the tea party topic - as covered by the leftwing publications over the weekend.

[Tempest Pugit]

Ok gramps McCain

[The Anti-Dori]

No, I don't see the "irony." Sorry.

"from what you understand" is not factual. If you bring up cable packages, you could probably determine it for sure. Better to know than to guess, don't you think?

[Puget Sound]

nice job of exposing 'em KS.

its almost funny how ADD 'dances' around rather than tries to answer the question.

until they learn to be forthcoming, the usual suspects will remain a small part of a minority party.

you would think it would be simple to explain why waterboarding a suspect is torture yet launching a predator hellfire missle after that same suspect who is inside a home of innocent civilians is 'okay'

but hey, these are the same ones who bemoan Gitmo with Bush but suddenly think its acceptable to have Gitmo under Obama.

hypocrisy is thy name...

[sparky]

Puts KNOWS what we think, you guys. Better get used to having the Great Carnac on board.

[KS]

"from what you understand" is not factual. If you bring up cable packages, you could probably determine it for sure. Better to know than to guess, don't you think?

Posted by: The Anti-Dori | December 02, 2010 at 10:12 PM

You are splitting hairs - how do you know it is not factual ? If you go back and look at what Sparky and others wrote and taking them at their word, you can tell that Fox and CNN are basic cable and MSNBC is premium - no great revelation. I am familiar enough with the cable setup to say more definitively that I said above is correct.

Re: The Bush tax cuts resulting in less jobs - It wasn't common knowledge - guess I missed that memo. You were being evasive about when that period was - if it is through the end of Bush's term, statistics would show there were many jobs lost in the last 6 months. In general, the overall wages decreased from the new jobs created. I know that it took several years before tax revenues increased from these tax cuts, after a decrease over the first two or three years.

FYI - Arthur Laffer came up with a good rule of thumb for tax cuts and increases called the "Laffer curve".

[Puget Sound]

nah, i know how you act but i am prepared to be proven incorrect so i am asking you to do so.

why not try and address the waterboarding is wrong but why you don't complain about the predator drones killing innocents, sparkles?

a little splish splash is torture but okey dokey with little kids being vaporized. please explain, sparkles.

oh wait, it can't be because of political affiliation could it? it can't be because you were using the war to score political points was it?

go ahead, elucidate. (that means 'explain' for the low information types like joanie)

[BlackRhino]

Missile strikes or strafing by drone platforms incur collateral damage. The same can be said of any weapon; like a hand grenade, shot gun or a rock. It is unintended damage to the intended outcome.

Torture, on the other hand, is intentionally inflicted.

You won’t get any bites on your question due to your lack of depth on the issue. Not because there is a political divide. Or maybe you intended the conflation as to create an artificial divide?

[India Tours]

wow ! What a nice pic..

[Puget Sound]

errr BR, the gov't understands that when they intentionally send a rocket into a home filled with 1 suspect and others to include women and children that they likely kill all whom reside within that home.
sounds pretty damn intentional.
and much worse than using a non lethal practice on high value targets -suspects- that i have good reason to know have information. not just applying it willy nilly to a low level fellow picked off the battlefield.
just a weird distinction people on the left make. water-boarding is torture and wrong but okay to send the rocket into a home to kill a 'suspect' even if others are inside age 3 or 5.
probably why andrew and the rest dance away from it and entertain us with talk of having a restaurant.

[Puget Sound--can any of the usual suspects answer this?]

here is a great discussion on the over reliance upon drones to the exclusion of interrogating suspects in the Foreign Policy Magazine:

"In the years after the 9/11 attacks, the CIA worked with Pakistani and other intelligence services to hunt down senior terrorist leaders and take them in for interrogation. Among those captured were men like Abu Zubaydah, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Ramzi bin al-Shibh, Ammar al-Baluchi, Walid bin Attash, Riduan Isamuddin (aka "Hambali"), Bashir bin Lap, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, Abu Faraj al-Libbi, Abd al-Hadi al-Iraqi, and others. In all, about 100 terrorists were detained and questioned by the CIA. And the information they provided helped break up terrorist cells that were planning to blow up the U.S. Consulate in Karachi and the U.S. Marine camp in Djibouti; explode seven airplanes flying across the Atlantic from London to cities in North America; and fly hijacked airplanes into Heathrow Airport, London's financial district, and the Library Tower in Los Angeles.

Today, the Obama administration is no longer attempting to capture men like these alive; it is simply killing them. This may be satisfying, but it comes at a price. With every drone strike that vaporizes a senior al Qaeda leader, actionable intelligence is vaporized along with him. Dead terrorists can't tell you their plans to strike America.

The recent strike on Qasim al-Raymi, a senior military leader of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, is a case in point. After having been caught blind by this terrorist network's near success in blowing up an airplane over Detroit, why not try to capture and interrogate its senior leaders alive instead of killing them? Wouldn't it make sense to get these men to reveal whom they have trained, where they have been deployed, and what their plans are for the next attack? But the Obama administration is not even trying to do this.

Obama's drone campaign is costing the United States vital intelligence, and it has also exposed him to the charge of hypocrisy. The president has claimed the moral high ground in eliminating the CIA's enhanced interrogation program, saying that he rejects the "the false choice between our security and our ideals." Yet when Obama orders a Predator or Reaper strike, he is often signing the death warrant for the women and children who will be killed alongside the target -- individuals whose only sin is that they are married to, or the children of, a terrorist. Is this not a choice between security and ideals? And why is it a morally superior choice? Is it really more in keeping with American ideals to kill a terrorist and the innocent people around him, when the United States might instead spare the innocent, capture the same terrorist alive, and get intelligence from him that could potentially save many other innocent lives as well?

It is true that Obama's predecessor George W. Bush also reportedly increased the use of drone strikes against senior terrorist leaders toward the end of his term. But the Bush administration also maintained and exercised the CIA's capability to capture and interrogate such leaders. Obama has now dramatically escalated drone strikes while eliminating what is arguably the most important and successful intelligence programs in the war on terror. This is not a sign of Obama's seriousness. To the contrary, he is using drones as cover for his dangerous decision to eliminate the CIA's capability to take terrorist leaders in alive and question them effectively for actionable intelligence. That is nothing to praise.

When Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was located in 2003, the United States did not send a Predator to kill him. It captured him alive and got him to give up the details of the plots he had set in motion. That decision saved thousands of lives. The fact that Obama's administration no longer does this when it locates senior terrorist leaders today means the president is voluntarily sacrificing intelligence that could protect the American people -- and that the U.S. homeland is at greater risk of a terrorist attack."

[Puget Sound]

BTW, Sparky, keep repeating the fact that Fox News is basic cable while MSNBC and CNN, I believe, are premium. That has to do with money and our friends on the right should understand "money" even though they never seem to acknowledge it's power in poliltics.

Posted by: The Anti-Dori | December 02, 2010 at 08:41 PM

So ADD, you say it is a fact that Sparky should push out there but then hedge with the '...while MSNBC and CNN, I believe, are premium.'

then you chide me with this:

'"from what you understand" is not factual. If you bring up cable packages, you could probably determine it for sure. Better to know than to guess, don't you think?

Posted by: The Anti-Dori | December 02, 2010 at 10:12 PM '

jeez, that's positively joanie-esque. are you dealing with facts or what you believe? don't you even read what you post?

It won't matter, pretty soon MSNBC will be wall to wall 'Lockup' or whatever crime related reality show. On the plus side, maybe we can see 'the Lion of the Left' Bernie Ward from inside his cell broadcasting...wonder if Coils is till texting with Bernie?

[BlackRhino]

The seven character traits of Putz.

If it’s in quotes it has been mischaracterized.

If he’s characterizing another’s post it’s a lie.

Projection.

When one post is achievable, multiple posts’ are typical.

The flogging of straw-men is blood sport for Putz.

Weak arguments need support, so calls for assist are required. Right KS?

When Putz has lost footing for his straw-man, his posts’ get insipidly long.

[Puget Sound]

poor BR, having the lack of coherency of your worldview exposed is painful.

rather than answer, you go with a dodge.

very simple: if waterboarding is torture and beyond the pale why is a policy that needlessly inflicts death/mayhem on innocents acceptable to you?

just asking, telling you can't form a coherent reply.

[KS]

Seems like a plausible argument. The usual suspects are good at saying that's wrong and attacking the messenger, but are negligent at defending their positions.

BR is using the tactic of personal ridicule and attack to put down the opposition, as espoused in "Rules for Radicals".

My view was previously stated; I don't mind the drones doing their business in Pakistan - it kills terrorists without affecting troops on the ground - although some quasi-innocents have been killed.
The waterboarding drama theatre was about getting political points primarily because the Bush Admin. promoted it (It was probably also used when Clinton was POTUS). Yes, there is hypocrisy by the BO administration here, but there are bigger cases of hypocrisy out there, IMO.

[Puget Sound]

spot on KS
I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the Left and that for all the gnashing of teeth what it really came down to was political theater.

I am now just enjoying watching 'em squirm a bit. They can't really defend it. Hell Andrew is almost sounding like a Hawk talking about collateral damage as not of consequence. I think we pay a huge price in that and should attempt to minimize to the greatest extent possible.

I do take issue with the current Obama policy of not trying to get more intell value. After all, we saw what happened with Clinton when instead of aggressively pursuing Al Queda resorted to shooting off rockets at tents.

[BlackRhino]

Holy moldy crust, Putz...are you still playing this game?

[The Anti-Dori]

Two fast responses: KS: Re: The Bush tax cuts resulting in less jobs - It wasn't common knowledge - guess I missed that memo. You were being evasive about when that period was - if it is through the end of Bush's term, statistics would show there were many jobs lost in the last 6 months. In general, the overall wages decreased from the new jobs created. I know that it took several years before tax revenues increased from these tax cuts, after a decrease over the first two or three years."

worst track record on jobs

Wall Street Journal dated 2008. That's why I indicated "common knowledge."

Regarding the Fox News: all I could find was another post on a blog citing the same information as sparky. “MSNBC is only available on second or third tier cable packages. That means you don't get MSNBC unless you pay considerab­ly more than you pay for FOX and CNN. People tend to watch what is on. If MSNBC is not in your cable package, you don't watch it. I think their ratings would be much higher if they were as available as FOX or CNN. I know a lot of people who don't watch it because of that.

Only a blog. While it confirms sparky's mother's experience, I agree, rather flimsy. Do you have better?

[Puget Sound]

nope, ADD. looks like a draw.

upon reflection, i realize that my anecdotal observation about seeing msnbc with the same frequency as fox or cnn is probably skewed as i am judging by hotel tv. they tend to have the premium packages available for patrons. i like my lawrence o'donnell and try to hit some Olby for the comedy aspect.

it may be all moot with the upcoming msnbc change of ownership.

[The Anti-Dori]

What's the draw?

BTW, how does ADD correlate with Anti-Dori? Capt' Puget correlates with Puget Sound but I'm lost on the ADD label?

[Puget Sound]

it's the lack of attention you display. hence, ADD

did you have real facts or just anecdotal on msnbc? if you have it, fine then please post.