take your answer off the air...

  • HorsesAss.Org: the straight poop on WA politics & the press
    progressive brilliance from the guy who pointed out Tim Eyman's nascent horse's-assedness
  • Talker's Magazine
    The quirky talk radio trade mag. Check the Talk Radio Research Project- it's not very scientific, but places on the top 15 talkers list (scroll down to Talk Radio Audiences By Size)) are as hotly contested as Emmys (and mean just about as much).
  • The Advocate
    No, not THAT Advocate... it's the Northwest Progressive Institute's Official Blog.
  • Media Matters
    Documentation of right-wing media in video, audio and text.
  • Orcinus
    home of David Neiwert, freelance investigative journalist and author who writes extensively about far-right hate groups
  • Hominid Views
    "People, politics, science, and whatnot" Darryl is a statistician who fights imperialism with empiricism, gives good links and wry commentary.
  • Jesus' General
    An 11 on the Manly Scale of Absolute Gender, a 12 on the Heavenly Scale of the 10 Commandments and a 6 on the earthly scale of the Immaculately Groomed.
  • Howie in Seattle
    Howie Martin is the Abe Linkin' of progressive Seattle.
  • Streaming Radio Guide
    Hellishly long (5795!) list of radio streaming, steaming on the Internets.
  • The Naked Loon
    News satire -- The Onion in the Seattle petunia patch.
  • Irrational Public Radio
    "informs, challenges, soothes and/or berates, and does so with a pleasing vocal cadence and unmatched enunciation. When you listen to IPR, integrity washes over you like lava, with the pleasing familiarity of a medium-roast coffee and a sensible muffin."
  • The Maddow Blog
    Here's the hyper-interactive La Raych of MSNBC. daily show-vids, freakishly geeky research, and classy graphics.
  • Northwest Broadcasters
    The AM, FM, TV and digital broadcasters of Northwest Washington, USA and Southwest British Columbia, Canada. From Kelso, WA to the northern tip of Vancouver Island, BC - call letters, formats, slogans, networks, technical data, and transmitter maps. Plus "recent" news.
  • News Corpse
    The Internet's chronicle of media decay.
  • The Moderate Voice
    The voice of reason in the age of Obama, and the politics of the far-middle.
  • News Hounds
    Dogged dogging of Fox News by a team who seems to watch every minute of the cable channel so you don't have to.
  • HistoryLink
    Fun to read and free encyclopedia of Washington State history. Founded by the late Walt Crowley, it's an indispensable tool and entertainment source for history wonks and surfers alike.

right-wing blogs we like

  • The Reagan Wing
    Hearin lies the real heart of Washington State Republicans. Doug Parris runs this red-meat social conservative group site which bars no holds when it comes to saying who they are and who they're not; what they believe and what they don't; who their friends are and where the rest of the Republicans can go. Well-written, and flaming.
  • Orbusmax
    inexhaustible Drudgery of NW conservative news
  • The Radio Equalizer
    prolific former Seattle KVI, KIRO talk host speaks authoritatively about radio.
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August 07, 2010



What's great about Maddow is you can tell she really loves debating conservatives. She chomps at the bit to get at them, is very sharp and well-informed, and that really, really aggrivates folks like O'Reilly, who's used to getting away with recklessly shoveling bullshit in every direction.


She makes msm spike when she appears? Then she's attracting a whole lot more viewers than Fixed News. Most people are watching ABC, NBC and CBS. I always thought she would have been a better replacement for Russert than Gregory who I think has upped his game a little bit - probably due to Maddow.


Au contrere - Rachel is too stuck on Fox News - just like Joanie. Her slanted views go unchallenged too often - when it gets down to it, she's a lightweight. Her show on MSNBC gets small ratings, like the other shows on that clown network. Each to their own...

Russert was something she'll never be - fair and unbiased !!


When you point out to conservatives that their argument is a logical fallacy, they just laugh and accuse you of readin' too many books. Bill O'Reilly uses logical falacy because in his mind, and in the minds of his viewers, it's all fair game. Rhetoric is substance in their world.

This mosque business near ground zero is a perfect example. Retards like Sarah Palin are suggesting the government should step in and interfere with a particular religion engaging in legal behavior on a particular piece of private property that's not even at ground zero just because... they don't like it.

You can't take conservatives seriously. They will betray their core principles at the drop of a hat for the sake of emotional gratification. They're like children.


I'm a little disgusted that Billo Reilly is childish enough to go after Maddow or Olbermann. He's not behaving like a responsible businessman. When you're a the top of the pack, you don't give your lesser competition free publicity by talking about them. He's obviously giving into feelings of insecurity and indignity. He's puting his emotions before good business principles. It's wreckless, and the many employees of FOX NEWS are counting on him to conduct himself in a professional manner.


Just watched Rachel's August 6 show - ITunes podcast. It was a great newscast all the way through. And what a take down of O'Reilly. Clearly illustrates his trash tactics, fear mongering and lack of substance.

Speaking of which, Dean was also interviewed and he pointed out the fact that the Republicans may be far less successful than commonly believed because they are relying on the strategy of using ad hominems towards democrats and Obama and have nothing of substance to offer.

I love Dean. He doesn't get nearly enough play. Time will tell if there are more informed people than uninformed people and more honest people than "emotional believers."

Anybody wanna bet that KS didn't even watch the clip? Given your response, I question whether you even read Michael's column: Her show on MSNBC gets small ratings,


Conservatives equate ratings with correctness. If a lot of people watch, that means what they say must be true. In their minds.

I wonder why no one has complained about the mosque inside the Pentagon, which was also attacked on 9-11.

Blue Angelface

Rachel is the only ray of hope I have for the future of media. There are others, I'm sure, but she makes it seem like I don't have to kill my TV, which I've been threatening to do since 'That Was The Week That Was' was cancelled.


Andrew posted: "When you're a the top of the pack, you don't give your lesser competition free publicity by talking about them."

Bill has successfully done this with Olbermann, never mentioning him by name - which is why, obviously, Maddow has him rattled. She's thrown him off his game.

sparky posted: "Conservatives equate ratings with correctness."

I guess that means 'Dancing With The Stars' is the pinnacle of American culture. Or something.

Puget Sound

When you point out to conservatives that their argument is a logical fallacy, they just laugh and accuse you of readin' too many books.

Posted by: Andrew | August 07, 2010 at 11:02 PM

Rest easy, no one accuses you of reading too many books.

Puget Sound

On a network with Chris Matthews and Keith Olberman she does stand out as the more interesting host. But that is like being the tallest dwarf. Oh yeah, she's also better than David Shuster...

In terms of humor, she is no John Stewart in either talent or courage. The simple take of 'Republican Bad and Democrat Good' gets damn old after awhile.

In terms of substance, when she is seriously challenged such as with David Frum or George Will on This Week, she doesn't do as well as when she can have her producer 'debate' with her or when she has free reign at the teleprompter with the facial gestures, raise eyebrows, or smirk. I guess their is an audience for that stuff as 'analysis' among the sheeple that make up MSNBC.

But if she wants to take the next step it will be interesting. She appears obviously disappointed in how Pres Obama has been less than vigorous in his support of Gay Rights. He could end 'Dont Ask Dont Tell' or renounce his Senate DOMA vote. And perhaps be more than tepid in his support towards the Prop 8 defeat.

There are a lot of us there who want Pres Obama to lead on Gay Rights. It is an issue that cuts across party line and is a genuine movement.

Puget Sound

But yeah, Rachel is better than this ass-clown.
Keith Olberman on Twitter:

"Twitter is getting to be a delightful source of Olby humiliation. The latest gem came when he attacked CNN for leading a news hour with a shooting, rather than the all-important gay marriage story:

* I happen to like Rick Sanchez, I worked with him. But how CNN could begin with the Connecticut shooting, bad as it was, is inexplicable.

Meanwhile, a short distance away in the very same building, the NBC Nightly News, the flagship news program of Olbermann's employers, led with...the Connecticut shooting!"

Get Keith back to baseball. He does fine there. News coverage, er not so much...


Olberman is quite right with his criticism. The news media, and especially television, has embraced the "if it bleeds, it leads" mentality. Stories like that tend to be visually rich and don't require any sort of analysis. A court case, on the other hand, may not even have a visual component and may be so nuanced, detailed explanation is needed. More importantly, a guy shooting up an office on the other side of the country has absolutely no impact on my life what so ever (or the lives of a vast majority of viewers), but a legal decision like the one in question effects to some degree every person in the nation and will do so for a very long time. If this decision stands, it is nothing short of historic, and the media organizations that showed car chases or shootouts completely missed the boat.

Fan of Maddow

Olberman may be correct in his criticism, but he won't hold his own network to account. He'll bash outward but fails to look inward.
Until he is willing to do that, he'll always come off as a bit dishonest.
I'll never forget that performance he gave wearing an O'Reilly mask and goose-stepping all over the stage.


but he won't hold his own network to account. He'll bash outward but fails to look inward.

He's the MSNBC cop now? I don't get your post. Why not hold Maddow or anybody else accountable? And what is MSNBC doing that is so bad?

Kind of a broad-brush critiqie without specifics. I don't watch msnbc but do podcast Countdown and Maddow so I don't have a clue what you're referring. Like, what do they do that's so terrible and different?

Puget Sound

very specific critique with an example.
Olby blasts others -such as CNN Sanchez- but won't mention that his own network engages in it.
you fail this comprehension test.


And you wouldn't know broad-brush from a pig-in-a-poke.

Got anything else erudite and interesting to add?

Puget Sound

what part of the specific example did you take issue with, hmmm?


Your ass-umption that I read you. Your ass-umption that I was responding to you.

I wasn't. You're the one-note rolodex man. And as I've said repeatedly, I don't take issue with you on anything. It becomes circular. You know, like a dog chasing his tail.


Factually speaking, the highest rated FOX show (O'Reilly) always gets beaten in the ratings by CBS news, which is the lowest-rated network news broadcast. So by O'Reilly's standard that means CBS is more accurate or reliable than FOX News.

Also, FOX News comes in dead last on the internet. More:


Crack Smoker

Her relevance shows because Bill O mentions her? Why dont the ratings show more relevance, not many people watch either one.


Because it's been established that ratings don't mean shit as far as credibility goes. Haven't you been listening?


Or reading, sorry.

Puget Sound

poor joanie, just becoming more and more irrelevant by the post.

keep it up. you are a joke.


tigsnort, you are chasing your tail. So now you are trying to rationalize that ratings don't mean much and internet readership means more, just because a predominantly leftwingnut propaganda website said so.

She is pretty good on the teleprompter. She did get a zinger in on Bill O'Reilly. We'll stay in touch and forward Mr. O'Reilly's response - if he has one.

Rachel stepped in it here when made the unfounded racist accusation against Fox News and she called out a fake ACORN piece - she is hiding the truth there by cherry picking stories in her favor but not mentioning when they were indicted, so i question her credibility. Seems like Rachel is enamered with herself with a few too many ass-umptions and out to score points and doesn't not take the high road and O'Reilly ought to be more specific on his allegations and less ad populum.


KS said: "tigsnort, you are chasing your tail. So now you are trying to rationalize that ratings don't mean much and internet readership means more, just because a predominantly leftwingnut propaganda website said so."

What I'm saying about internet ratings is that FOX is at the bottom. It's a reponse to rightwingers who claim FOX is a ratings king. I'm not saying they mean anything other than that - proof that the right's chest-puffing is as empty as their policy proposals.


Bull-pucky, show the source please. Even if that is true, viewership means significantly more. While you are at it, also look at the revenue of purchasing products for Fox vs. CNN or MSNBC. I stand by last comment.


From Mediaweek:

Foxnews.com averages around 12 million or 13 million monthly unique users, according to Nielsen Online, rarely approaching the 35 million to 40 million uniques that leaders Yahoo News, MSNBC and CNN regularly deliver in aggregate.


FOX attracts a loyal conservative audience, while the remaining viewership (liberals, independents) is split among the other channels - that's why FOX gets higher ratings. It's not because the public trusts FOX more, it's because they've cornered the market on Republican viewership. If MSNBC cornered the market on Democrats they'd be tied w/ FOX.

Puget Sound

Good points KS

After all, the MSNBC crowd would count the Usual Suspects as part of their demo target. Fairly lowbrow in terms of intellect.

Probably explains why the weekend fare tends to be reruns of 'to catch a predator' or 'lockup' shows.

Not very edifying to say the least.

Rachel has promise. But she'll have to do like Greta and come over to Fox.


Bryan Suits is takjing bullet caliber again! Bullet caliber talk from BS! his audience of fat middle-aged white males are once again getting erections. (The boners they got from last week, when Bryan played a tape of a guy rolling down a rocky mountainside, screaming in agony as bones were being broken, have long since drooped.)


Rachel Maddow jumped the shark here. Too much dishonest reporting - she's have potential if she learned how to be objective.

Seems like she used the selective editing feature to her advantage - she's a quick study of Media Matters; her network (MSLSD) is the real Fixed News


This whole thing just shows that Maddow is an uber-educated liar, expert at twisting the facts to suit her agenda. She is turning out to be just as dishonest as Olbermann.
MSNBC should just fire the lady and flush her down the toilet with the rest of the turds.


If you watch the Maddow clip on O'Reilly again (and pay attention this time), when Bill talks about blacks wanting to "redistribute income from the white establishment to their precincts", that's his INTERPRETATION of the poll results. Nothing in the actual poll indicates that blacks believe this. That's what Maddow was commenting on. Kabish?

Newsbusters is a partisan hack website that tries and fails to be like Media Matters, but has so little material to work with they often blow up and exaggerate things in order to create enough ground from which to to attack their targets. It's really quite pathetic.


You really need an interpreter, klueless. I've listened several times to that clip and read your linked site.

The picture shows "most white Americans don't like a number of President Obama's policies, according to the polls." Then, he leaps to an editorial comment: "It's simple, white American fear the government and they don't want a bankrupt nation." And he said "feeeeaar" - stretching it out like the propagandist he is.

Then the backdrop said: "Many African Americans want money . . . better education and healthcare at government expense" while he voiced over "for decades African Americans have supported a bigger Federal government so that it can impose (stressed) social justice." He goes on to say "they want to even the playing field and redistribute income..."

And you think that came out of a poll? "I'm black and I want to redistribute the income, duh."

Again, these are Billo's opinions meant to propagandize people like you.

None of this is relevant to the poll. That's Bill O'Reilly fearmongering again. Exactly what Maddow showed and said.

I went to Gallup and all it shows is that Obama's numbers have dropped. There may be an analysis by race which is statistical data only and does not interpret or reflect "feelings" and "emotions."

You show me a link or proof that there was anything relevant edited from this tape. Anything at all besides his word that there's more to the story. I'd even accept the relevant words from his own column if they prove anything.


...This whole thing just shows that Maddow is an uber-educated liar, expert at twisting the facts...

My you find it easy to call other people liars and fact twisters. Well, given Tig's and my responsible clarification of the facts, you're probably done for the night.

Sorry, Tig. While I was out collecting and verifying my facts, you succinctly put it right. Thanks.


A good display of ad hominem but no specific examples in this case, but go for it.
What polls are you talking about ? No, that's not all she was commenting about. She was using selective editing to paint Bill O as a racist in an attempt to get back at him for his shots at her intellectually dishonest analysis. Bill O threw out some inflammatory stuff in his own editorial, but they are contained in the videos.
Was Olberman aka Bathtub Boy her mentor ?

I didn't realize that you are that closed minded and an ideologue as you have demonstrated.
Newsbusters tends to shoot down the veneer of the so-called reporting by Media Matters or hack cable networks like MSLSD, ABC, NBC, CBS and sometimes Fox. Ideologues like you don't like it because it exposes the lies that the corrupt media you buy into is vomiting. The fact that a site like Newsbusters fails to be like Media Matters, operated by serial liars David Brock and John Podesta that is anything but objective is a good thing.


The picture shows "most white Americans don't like a number of President Obama's policies, according to the polls.Then, he leaps to an editorial comment: It's simple, white American fear the government and they don't want a bankrupt nation." And he said "feeeeaar" - stretching it out like the propagandist he is."

LMAO, Ph(J)oanie, you are being simplistic in your attempt to demonize Fox and Bill O. I think he hit upon some things that are difficult to disprove, such as;' the White House likes to play the race card. Obama is every bit as effective of a race hustler as is Jesse Hi-Jackson. It can be argued effectively that the White House would like to have America become more of a welfare state- duh ! The blacks happen to favor this - more than the Caucasians and the culture bears this out - a big part of the leftwing agenda. So why do the blacks vote over 90% Democrat ? They like the goodies from Guvmint ! He could and may have added more detail to his comments and maybe he really did - except I think you are taking Rachel's video clips as gospel - you've been duped but you don't care - sad !


KS you're sad. You admit that Bill O was editorializing in the clip that Maddow criticized, which blows apart the basis of Newsbusters' criticism of Maddow. Then you basically admit to agreeing with Bill O's race-baiting talking points. On top of that, you continue to claim we're all being "duped" by Maddow.

You're impossible to debate with, because you're so scatterbrained.


You take it Tig. I find his ignorance tedious.


"On top of that, you continue to claim we're all being "duped" by Maddow."

Yup and evidently you don't care about it. How does O'Reilly editorializing on his Talking points blow apart the criticism of Maddow ? Talk about scatterbrained and chasing your tail... Bill O admits he is editorializing while she doesn't admit she is doing it from her end, which she was. The race card that you liberal progressives keep playing has been overused and its old and stale and code for I don't have anymore debate left. I made my case for his comments with regard to race - you have yet to disprove it except to play the race card.

This is a case of he said- she said and she is more intellectually dishonest and sneaky than he is because she can get away with it on a goofball network like MSLSD. Show me where she has had the courage to apologize when she has been proven wrong and I may change my views on her. It is what it is. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, so deal with it and stop whining.


She has apologized many times on her show for being wrong or making errors. I've seen it with my own eyes.

"How does O'Reilly editorializing on his Talking points blow apart the criticism of Maddow ?"

Because Newsbusters tried to claim that O'Reilly was merely reporting on the results of a poll. They tried to make it seem like Maddow took his reading of the poll out of context and make it seem like he was editorializing. He was editorializing, as even you now admit.

Get with the program, KS.


Maddow proved her case by having Billo talk. He proved her case against him by editorializing and race-baiting which is what she claimed and you agreed.

Why should she apologize for being correct?


tigsnort - Bill O was reporting on poll results in his Talking Points segment, which is editorial as suggested by the name - duh ! I doubt if you watch him much, because he conflicts with Bathtub Boy on MSLSD. Wading through your minutia again.

Madcow distorted - in my book that's a lie, Ph(J)oanie and I knew that after watching the video clips that Bla'M posted bdfore checking Newsbusters. The bigger picture is that you can't accept that she "cheated" in her presentation and choose to ignore it maybe because conservative-leaning people see it that way, rather than bring up any substantive argument on your behalf - typical. If Almost Live were still on - you'd be a strong contender for the LAME List.

Finally, could you accept snopes.com ? an unbiased truth detector


Ph(J)oanie and I knew that...

No, I didn't say that and I don't know that. She did not cheat and you are stupid.


KS you claim Maddow distored and lied but didn't explain how. I explained why Newsbusters was wrong. It'd be nice if you did the same and not just use the "just because" tactic.


No, I didn't say that and I don't know that. She did not cheat and you are stupid.

Posted by: joanie | August 11, 2010 at 01:55 PM

We can argue ad nauseum about whether she cheated and it depends on one's frame of reference. To you who is an anarchist, she didn't cheat by selective editing - because in your world the end justifies the means and if she can slime Bill O, that's OK and anything goes in getting there. Grow up for God's sakes !!!

Tig's argument of why Newsbusters was wrong was is a moot point as I previously mentioned.
Bill O was reporting on poll results in his Talking Points segment, which is editorial as suggested by the name - duh ! That's all you have ? If you don't see that she ass-umed and put words in his mouth and cheated on using her adversaries quotes out of context, you must be an anarchist as well. It doesn't pass the smell test - end of story.


Madcow distorted - in my book that's a lie, Ph(J)oanie and I knew that after watching the video clips that Bla'M posted before checking Newsbusters.

Joanie blogged:
No, I didn't say that and I don't know that.

WTF ? said what ? Read again slowly... pure idiocy


which is editorial

You're right! And his "editorializing" was race-baiting and fearmongering. And that's precisely what Maddow said.

BTW, how can you "know" what I "know" without my "saying" what I "know?"

This feels like a Marx brothers movie. Or maybe Abbot and Costello's "who's on 3rd? . . .


Joanie! You're an anarchist??? Have you been tossing bricks through Nordstrom's windows again????


Is it time to move on to Bla'M's race baiting via his Dr. Laura post yet? I think that this thread is just going no place.
Maddow is full of shit. We see and know it. You on the left just can't or refuse to see it.

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