"The president gave what I think is the only full, basically formal, at-length defense of liberalism and defense of the idea of government for the people's good, in ideological terms. It's the most ideological I've ever heard him be and I think liberals will be happy. ~~Rachel Maddow.
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It was a great speech. I hope that people stop focusing on Rep. Wilson's rude breach of protocol and renew their efforts to keep holding Congress' feet to the fire and get a public option into this bill.
Posted by: sparky | September 10, 2009 at 04:48 AM
agreed about representative wilson.
of course, in 2005 the dems exhibited equally boorish behavior aimed at then President Bush at his State of the Union on the topic of social security reform.
I am sure you'll also denounce this boorish behavior, right?
Pres Bush social security reform included giving people the 'option' of putting 2 percent of their contribution in one of the Thrift Saving Plans Options in lieu of it all -approx 12 percent- going to social security.
Key words, option and up to two percent. Yet that was also ripped apart by partisans.
Posted by: Puget Sound | September 10, 2009 at 04:55 AM
I think its pretty funny that Joe "YOU LIE!" Wilson's official congressional website is temporarily shut down due to 'high traffic'.
What a low class tool he is.
Posted by: Bill | September 10, 2009 at 07:42 AM
Fairly indicative of a party in shambles and one that is currently apparently guided by conservative talk radio/TV hosts. It's rather sad to see what's happening to our so called 'two-party system'. The disrespect that the majority of the right showed towards our POTUS last night was appalling.
Posted by: Duffman | September 10, 2009 at 07:48 AM
Duffy
I am pretty sure that I would have kept my mouth shut during the speech last night, as did most all of the rest of the Republicans. One guy lost control of himself and yelled out that which most of us were thinking but were politely keeping to ourselves.
What is going on now is pretty much what has been going on for years. One disrespectful loud mouth is not the majority of the right. I agree that Obama needs to be called out, but not while yapping in that venue. That shows no class.
Now, had Wilson been a Democrat and it had been Bush, Wilson would be being held in hero status by Democrats nationwide and probably be interviewed by Olberloon, Maddow, Mr Ed, be on Meet the Press, This Week with Stephanupolous etc. But he is a Republican, so he was out of line.
Don't worry though, we will tend to him.
Posted by: chucks | September 10, 2009 at 08:01 AM
Great speech?
Too bad there's huge holes in every salient point that he made. Pay attention to someone other than the Obama cheerleaders and you can easily see that the numbers don't add up. I really like how he bends the truth to keep you sheeple uninformed. Yes, the public option won't affect anyone with private healthcare, but only for 5 years at which point when changing jobs or otherwise needing to change insurance companies you would be forced into the public system.
Here's a question for you: Why must we hurry this reform through but then not implement any of it until 2013? Would it be because 2012 is an election year and Obama knows he won't be re-elected after the people see what this plan will actually do to them?
Drink the koolaid, listen to the used-car salesman give his hundreds of empty, misleading speeches& sleep well at night.
Posted by: Brian | September 10, 2009 at 08:27 AM
Everyone agrees that a 'reform' of our health care is needed.
Can you tell me what comprehensive plan the other side is offering? Where can I see the details or even a broad over-view of that plan?
Posted by: Duffman | September 10, 2009 at 08:31 AM
Wilson apparently bolted from the House chambers right after the speech.
I apologize for calling him a low class tool.
I meant to call him a low class coward.
My mistake.
Posted by: Bill | September 10, 2009 at 08:33 AM
Duff, the Repubs have plans though limited in scope. You could see them holding their bills up in the air when Obama claimed they were offering nothing.
Tort reform would be a great way to start but the Dems are way too far in bed with the ambulance chasing lawyers for that. A recent study by Harvard estimates the overall savings of tort reform would be around 35%.
A public option would be great and welcomed as long as it wasn't designed to eliminate the private sector as is is now.The fact that the Dems ignore this while pushing their supposedly "moral" agenda on this just shows how disingenuous they really are.
So again, why wait until 2013 to implement this plan? Why is that the magic year?
Posted by: Brian | September 10, 2009 at 09:26 AM
Here's an outline of the GOP plan, covers things like tax credits, tort reform, medicare fraud, preexisting illness, etc. it probably doesn't go far enough but at least protects what we have now which a majority of people are happy with.
Sorry, no hyperlink.
http://www.gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/06-17-09_House__GOP_Solutions__Group__Outline.pdf
Posted by: Brian | September 10, 2009 at 09:33 AM
Thanks Brian, I'll check it out.
Posted by: Duffman | September 10, 2009 at 09:35 AM
Another GOP outline? When will they put something on the table instead of just teasing us with outlines of non-existent legislation?
Obama didn't say we are waiting 4 years for all of it, just some of it. The first step in his strategy seems to be the issues that affect the system that is currently in place; like legislation that makes pre-existing conditions an available out for the insurance companies.
Yes, Rep. Wilson was a dick last night, but to his credit, he did quickly and as personally as possible apologize to the President. The issue is dead to me.
Still, the speech left me underwhelmed. I was hoping he would do what John McCain threatened to do with earmarks: call out the "death panel" people by name and make them famous. Obama took a much higher road than I would have liked to have seen.
Posted by: Lucas Foxx | September 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM
Apparently Joe Wilson was telling the truth, Obama does lie.
Redux: Obama Claims Health Care Plan Will Not Cover Abortion Services
FOXNews - 31 minutes ago
Under the current legislation in the House, low and moderate-income Americans can receive subsidies from the federal government -- called "affordability credits" -- to purchase insurance from private companies, some of whom cover abortions.
Posted by: Brian | September 10, 2009 at 10:12 AM
Oh, sorry, wrong lie.
Wilson was referring to Illegals, not the abortion lie.
Posted by: Brian | September 10, 2009 at 10:13 AM
Oh and here's another little one which most of you with a 4th grade math education figured out already:
FACT CHECK: Obama uses iffy math on deficit pledge
By CALVIN WOODWARD and ERICA WERNER (AP) – 10 hours ago
"WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama used only-in-Washington accounting Wednesday when he promised to overhaul the nation's health care system without adding "one dime" to the deficit. By conventional arithmetic, Democratic plans would drive up the deficit by billions of dollars."
How many dimes does it take to make a billion dollars?
Posted by: Brian | September 10, 2009 at 10:52 AM
Good stuff Brian...it's just not all 'jivin' is it.
Posted by: Duffman | September 10, 2009 at 11:08 AM
We'd have a lot more funding for reform health care if only we'd get out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Looks like I'm not the only one wondering why a now Democrat-controlled Congress and Admin won't get off the dime on this.
Posted by: Duffman | September 10, 2009 at 11:21 AM
Brian, I do not watch Fox news but I think I know what you referring to. The “affordability credits” out lined in Section 431a states the IRS must provide certain information to the Health Choices Commissioner and this information is used to determine who qualifies for "affordability credits." The government does not determine how you use them.
This is the same conflation used in the “you can keep your old plan if you like it” debate. Opponents of Obama say ‘if your boss finds a less expensive plan in the public option then he will switch plans’ ergo you switch. So the opponents blame Obama, not the Boss.
Folks that do not read for themselves get spoon fed the pabulum of ignorance.
By the way Brian, do you think the “affordability credits” process would weed out the “Illegals”?
Posted by: M.Steele | September 10, 2009 at 11:29 AM
Read the AP report earlier this morning. The based that on the H.R. 3200. Pretty sloppy reporting. How many dimes did it cost to get CALVIN WOODWARD and ERICA WERNER to repeat a GOP talking pint that came out before the speech was even made?
Obama was lying because no legislation before congress address abortion AT ALL? So by those standards, every bill allows insurance companies to pay for abortions. I'm supprised the Republicans have supported so many bills that allow abortions by the absence of any actual wording that talks about abortion.
Next!
Posted by: Lucas Foxx | September 10, 2009 at 11:36 AM
M.Steele, nice to see you back, have always enjoyed your posts. :)
Posted by: Duffman | September 10, 2009 at 11:42 AM
Duffy
You know that Obama is the kind of guy that would surrender in a heartbeat. The problem is, as stated before, he has the intel and facts that Bush had.
Holy shit Batman, if I can trust him enough at this point in time to believe that he is doing what he knows is best (and I can't stand the cock sucker), you should put a little trust in the guy and let it go.
Good God Duffy, you are sounding like a woman.
Eight years ago tomorrow. We don't ever want to see that again. I don't give a shit who or what is POTUS. Even Hopey-Changey.
Posted by: chucks | September 10, 2009 at 11:47 AM
Puget Sound, by 2005 there was ample proof that Bush had been operating in an abnormal mode. Iraq was raging and Katrina was waiting in the wings.
Obama was not even in office when this spitefulness started.
Hey, Duff. How have you been? You need to read more. There is a lot of misinformation out in the innertubes. The cut and pasters are hard at work.
Posted by: M.Steele | September 10, 2009 at 11:55 AM
Chucks,
Drinking in the AM is a sign of alcoholism.
Posted by: M.Steele | September 10, 2009 at 11:59 AM
Hmmmm. A little Irish Cream or Kahlua with your coffee is a nice way to start the morning.
Missed you a little Steele. Good to see you back.
Posted by: chucks | September 10, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Obama will not get the support of most working class Americans for his health care reform bill. The average American is willing to pay for sick kids and old people. The average American refuses to pay the medical expenses of a 45 year old who weighs 400lbs and eats pork ribs all gattdam day.
Posted by: mrogi | September 10, 2009 at 01:27 PM
Thanks Chucks, I think.
Are you kidding Ogi? We pay for those things via ER. Yesterday I heard a pitiful story about a mail man and a patron along his route. It sounded like the patron did not want to go to the hospital because he had no way to pay. The person was so poor he used tape to cover over lesions that may have been caused by diabetes. Some days later the postman called the ambulance for the man. When he called in he was on his way to the hospital to see the man he called his friend.
This was a talk show to be sure, and you cannot believe everything you hear. But these stories are told all over the country.
If you want to know who I do not want to recompense, it would be those insurance companies that control the life or death judgments.
Posted by: M.Steele | September 10, 2009 at 02:28 PM
That quote by Rachel Maddow was accurate. The president gave voice to the people who imagine government of the people for the people and by the people.
Posted by: M.Steele | September 10, 2009 at 02:55 PM
Obama is a fraud who will pay eventually with his political failure. He is about socializing this country and taking total control of all our lives. The lies he and his dupes tell about "reform" will eventually be revealed, and we will get a real impeachment this time. There is a reason why a guy like him has never been elected before as president of this country. The voters will think twice next time.
Posted by: Sorry Charlie | September 10, 2009 at 04:05 PM
The guy did promise the biggest free ride in my lifetime. He is going to add 30,000,000 million Americans (plus you know he is going to find a way to slip in the 17,000,000 illegals) and have it be no extra $.
Bwahahahahhahahahhahaha. I guess he figures to be the new Bernard Madoff.
If this president thing doesn't work out for him, I hope to open a used car lot and have him on my sales staff. I will open it in Seattle where there is an unlimited supply of believers.
Posted by: chucks | September 10, 2009 at 04:26 PM
Puget Sound, by 2005 there was ample proof that Bush had been operating in an abnormal mode. Iraq was raging and Katrina was waiting in the wings.
Obama was not even in office when this spitefulness started.
Posted by: M.Steele | September 10, 2009 at 11:55 AM
Glad to see you back, M. Go ahead and call me Putz.
Nice try, but it was a case of boorish behavior last night and also in 2005. When the President is invited to speak before Congress one should not act like you're at a Rugby game.
Just my opinion.
Posted by: Puget Sound | September 10, 2009 at 06:04 PM
Hey Putz, I am not proffering a defense. Just setting the scene. I cannot imagine how some of these insane comments are ingested and regurgitated as if they are fact.
Hope you had a good summer. I took my girls to the other side of the mountains. It was their first time in Yakama.
Posted by: M.Steele | September 10, 2009 at 06:27 PM
Sounds like we are in agreement.
Had a great summer.
Glad that you spent some family time. Yakima is a beautiful place. Hope you tried some of the Wines.
Posted by: Puget Sound | September 10, 2009 at 07:33 PM
Breaking News:
KIRO just fired Luke Burbank. TBTL is history. Good riddance to a putrid radio program. Starting next week Frank Shiers is on from 7-11pm.
Posted by: mrogi | September 10, 2009 at 08:21 PM
oh my...
I thought it was their most successful program....that doesn't bode well for the others.
Posted by: sparky | September 10, 2009 at 08:47 PM
oh, they are moving to podcasting. That will be the radio of the future..
Posted by: sparky | September 10, 2009 at 08:51 PM
Where are my liberal friends? April May, Puddy, malcontent, Mark, AuthenticAndrew and the rest(you know who you are). I thought Rachel Maddow said something illuminating. I know it touched this reasonable heart.
Posted by: M.Steele | September 10, 2009 at 08:56 PM
Hey Sparky, I read your post on the speech. I think it will put the cons on the offensive. The deal was sealed with that outburst.
Posted by: M.Steele | September 10, 2009 at 09:24 PM
well...Senator Harkin says they now have enough votes for the public option.
whatever it takes!
In other breaking news...John Stossel is leaving ABC and is going to Fox. Maybe Lou Dobbs with go with him.
Posted by: sparky | September 10, 2009 at 09:38 PM
Did not hear about Senator Harkin. Tried to look it up and did not find a thing. Do you have a link?
Looks like the ball is starting to roll.
Posted by: M.Steele | September 10, 2009 at 09:50 PM
Harkin
Posted by: sparky | September 10, 2009 at 10:01 PM
TBTL came apart - for shame. Wait until the weekend - there be lots for you progressives to chirp about and not necessarily in a cheerful way. Such as ACORN is Obama's big baggage - banana republic census takers...gag !
Conflicting reports about if the House has enough votes to pass any kind of Health care. More recently, the LP's (44) won't vote for no public option leading to single payer and enough (57) moderate/ conservative Dems won't vote for the public option.
Isn't Harkin in the Senate ? What is your source ?
Posted by: KS | September 10, 2009 at 10:21 PM
Just noticed the source about Harkin - that conflicts with every other source (i.e. Yahoo, Fox News and even AP).
Posted by: KS | September 10, 2009 at 10:23 PM
Thanks Sparky,
KS, my friend, how are you? If there is anyone I miss most it is you. You bring delight and absurdity in one sentence.
Posted by: M.Steele | September 10, 2009 at 10:34 PM
If you read the post it says he thinks we have the votes to bring it to the floor, 60, and enough to pass the bill 51. Reading makes a bit of a difference buddy.
By the way, how do you feel about the President’s speech? And how about Rachel Maddow’s analysis?
Posted by: M.Steele | September 10, 2009 at 10:43 PM
That last post was for my huckleberry KS.
Posted by: M.Steele | September 10, 2009 at 10:57 PM
agreed ...
of course, in 2005 the dems exhibited equally boorish behavior aimed at then President Bush at his State of the Union on the topic of social security reform.
Hmm. See what I mean. Not a single specific. I suppose the Dems booed . . . that's the same as shouting out "liar" isn't it?
You're an idiot.
Posted by: joanie | September 10, 2009 at 11:35 PM
I really like how he bends the truth to keep you sheeple uninformed.
That certainly applies to you, doesn't it Brian?
I wonder why they didn't hold up their "bills" over the last eight years when they were in charge? Hm?
Duff, all the gumment numbers involve iffy numbers. They are speculating. What's new about that. Do you have a crystal ball on the future? Can you be sure that you've got enough money put away for a rainy day next year? No matter how rainy?
Get real you guys. If the economy can pay United Healthcare's CEO $102,000 an hour, I think we have enough money to pay for healthcare.
Or may we are just stupider than the rest of the first world. You think maybe that's it, Duff? Are we just dumb Americans?
And, BTW, Bri, does it pay for viagra? Hmm?
Good stuff, Lucas.
Posted by: joanie | September 10, 2009 at 11:44 PM
nice whiff.
but drawing meaningful parallels isn't your strong suit.
disrupting behavior is boorish.
sorry you can't figure that out.
Posted by: Puget Sound | September 11, 2009 at 04:15 AM
Still no specifics. I just keep sayin' . . .
Posted by: joanie | September 11, 2009 at 05:52 AM
joanie, you are such an idiot. This crisis is a manufactured crisis to draw you blubbering libs to another cause to hate America.
If the democrats wanted to have a real effect on health insurance, they would forsake the trial lawyers and impose real tort reform.
My grandsons pediatric doc pays $9200.00 per month (yes month) for medical malpractice ins.
Look at the ambulance chasers. baddrug.com and all of the other nationwide ad campaigns to draw in "victims" so the lawyers can make their 40% plus expenses.
Get rid of excessive trial lawyer abuse, illegal aliens and fraud to lower costs.
Posted by: chucks | September 11, 2009 at 06:14 AM