Norm coleman is a loser, say legal experts

Politico is reporting that a survey they've made of both Minnesota and national legal experts show that former Minnesota senator Norm Coleman has but what Rachel Maddow would say is a teeny, teeny, tiny-tiny, chance of prevailing in the Minnesota Supreme court decision due in the next couple of weeks.

That could mean the nation's first talk radio host, Al Franken would be sworn into the US Senate.

Republicans hate the comedian and former Air America radio headliner and have raised lots of money and been hardass about the process saying it must be played out through the federal courts, but Politico's reproters found say the Minnesota court's decision may very well preclude a US Supreme Court bid.

Raleigh Levine, a professor at William Mitchell College of Law, watched Monday’s oral argument with her colleague, Professor Knapp. Like other observers of the Coleman-Franken fight, she said that the justices seemed to be sending a clear message that the Coleman team had failed to present enough facts to back up their claims about the handling of absentee ballots.

“If that is the basis on which the court makes its decision, to a large extent it insulates the case from the U.S. Supreme Court,” Levine said. “If the factual premise is accepted then you have to wrestle with the Constitutional argument, but if he hasn’t even established that, there’s nothing really for the U.S. Supreme Court to do.”

The Minnesota Supreme Court justices were openly skeptical of the facts when Coleman's lawyers presented them- not good, but the case has never looked good legally for Coleman But Republicans have played and delayed for 7 months, keeping the Democrats short of a bullet-proof 60 seat majority.

Surely they'll howl, "we wuz rubbed" at the moon 'til the end of time (see Dino Rossi, 2004), never accepting any decision in the process that doesn't go their way. That's what they always do.

No matter what happens, there's a price to be paid by Republicans by pursuing this further. Minnesota, essentially a blue state with a few Republican office holders has been short a senator for all these months, and polling shows the citizens are getting fed up with the obstruction.  

We, for one can't wait until Al Franken can speak again. We've missed his wry humor and candor.

Comments

[Puget Sound]

"Surely they'll howl, "we wuz rubbed" at the moon 'til the end of time (see Dino Rossi, 2004), never accepting any decision in the process that doesn't go their way. That's what they always do."

Yes, Al Gore set such a 'great' example that the Republican Party should be ashamed.

Related to Al Franken, his comedy partner -Tom Davis- wrote a funny book that talks a lot about Al Franken. I'm halfway through it and I can see why people like Dennis Miller feel Al Franken is good person/good friend.

I got a zillion relatives that live there. It's very true about MN being a largely blue state although in addition to Rep Norm Coleman they have a Rep Gov. Wonder why it took a three party race for Al Franken to win as a Dem...hell, they put Jesse the Body Ventura -last seen talking about the 911 conspiracy- in office so it can't be because they are afraid of having elected officials with little political experiance.

Anyway, its gone on too long. As much as I would have prefered that Coleman won, he lost and I wish he had conceded months ago.

Elections have consequences.

[KS]

Seems like the case against documented "dead voters" has been raised by Colemsn's side. The Bama's henchmen; ACORN are implicated in illegal votes there, deja vu again for what happened here in 2004. I don't see how that will change the outcome though, outside of sanctioning a new election and the chances of that happening are very, very small.

King County recently settled out of court for $225,000 to Stephan Sharkansky for the alleged use of stonewalling tactics that they used in providing information requested by him that may have changed the complexion of the Gov's race here. That tells me that King County Records and Elections was guilty as I suspected all along. However, that is water under the bridge and will go down in the annals of history.

I concur with Puts - Time to move on.

[chucks]

2812 dead voters can not be wrong.

[blathering michael]

There are no dead voters, the recount process has been bi-partisan and scrupulous as the state of Minnesota -- sticklers for process -- are known for.

No matter what the legal process reveals, Al Franken will be called illegitimate. The GOP has done it all over the country. WA was only one. Sharkansky's winning case did not prove anything about the legitimacy of Gregoire's election, but some rather narrow fucks-up of certain elective officials. The rest of the process, including the trial by a Republican judge in Republican Chelan, the FBI looking at the case; and a bi-partisan commission who studied the election revealed nothing fraudulent.
(Interesting note: after John McKay the GOP-appointed federal prosecutor found nothing prosecutable in the 2004 election, he was fired by the Bush admin and given no reason, as with a bunch of other firings across the country of Republican prosecutors who refused to prosecute phony "voter fraud" cases. these cases haven't come to trial yet, so stay tuned, we'll be getting the sickening details).

Dino Rossi was a poor candidate who lost twice to Chris Gregoire.

Al Gore wuz robbed, but he bowed out gracefully after a Supreme Court decision that broke its own precedents and previous rulings. Nevertheless. he went away and shut up about it, unlike the rude boys of the Bush admin who are out in the media doing whatever they can to undercut their successors.
The nation now regrets that grievous ruling and the unqualified and incompetent president it installed -- especially as said successor tries to extract us from Bush's biggest fuck-up: the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

That said, welcome to the Obama era... thanks to GW Bush, and the massive fuck-ups of his party, it'll be stretching out for quite a while. It's an era where even Al Franken can be elected to the Senate. We all deserve it.

[sparky]

Amen...it would be nice that when Al is finally and officially sworn in that his 6 years began at that moment, instead of having to spend most of the first year in office wrangling Norm's lawyers.

[nevets]

I see you still got the blinders on B'lam. I feel sorry for you and the rest of the Libs who have that sense of duty to face east and bow to your leader 5 times a day.

[Wolfson]

I don't think Democrats stole the election, they voted voted for these people. thats worse. We're not participating in the armed revolution talk, we are just getting out of this country. We love America, but if they are so stupid and decadent that they voted in an Obama or a Gregoire or a Franken, it deserves what it gets. We are retiring to New Zealand and taking our grand kids with us. We do not need this socialist country and the "new breeds" that now run it. I never thought I would see the day!

[Teapotdome]

"Norm coleman is a loser"

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Now can't we just get rid of that other loser, Bachmann?

[Teapotdome]

"We are retiring to New Zealand and taking our grand kids with us. We do not need this socialist country and the "new breeds" that now run it. I never thought I would see the day!"

Bye. Thanks for helping to make America a better place.

Remember to avoid participating in New Zealand's evil socialized universal health care system.

[Mark C.]

Bet you get your socialist SS check and come back to use your socialist Medicare. You love it AND leave it.

Good riddance you old freak!

[Puget Sound]

2812 dead voters can not be wrong.

Posted by: chucks | June 07, 2009 at 09:37 AM

hey chucks, on the positive side long after we are gone we can still remain politically active.

just think, we'll be passing initiatives, school levies, and even electing a gov or two. America, it's a wonderful country!

[chucks]

Damned well better get his SS check. He and his boss have had the money stolen by the gumment for forty years.
Where is that fucking money anyways?
Ponzi?

[Puget Sound]

"No matter what the legal process reveals, Al Franken will be called illegitimate. The GOP has done it all over the country. WA was only one. "

hello! and what did Dems do after the Bush election of 2000. 'selected not elected' was the chant, eh? and lets not forget that little kabuki dance at the electoral college count in 2004 in which you had sen barbara boxer and 31 house dems officially protest -voting against certification of the 04 electoral college results. all done with no realistic hope rather it was to delegitimize bush again.

how bout this: we have an election, you get a recount if it is close, and then we live with the results. i am willing to do so with Al Franken and demonstrated that i was more than willing with Christine Gregoire after her first win.

[jaonie]

Don't hit these folks with solid facts, they can't handle it and must turn to their mentors for guidance.

[sparky]

Notaproduct...it is quite obvious you did not go to public school. Otherwise, you would have learned that the correct grammar is, "..must HAVE had" not "..must OF had."

Wolfson, you're kind of a wimp, aren't you? We struggled through the Bush years and didn't go running of to another country.
In addition to your cheap health care down under, the government provides State housing to those in need. The number of houses owned by the State has varied over the years and between different governments. Currently the level of rent paid in state hosuing is related to the level of income of the people living in the house so that those on low incomes pay below market rents. Where a household's income is relatively high the rents are set at the market rate. Disgusting!!!

I hope you have jobs lined up for those grandkids. To collect unemployment in NZ requires that you be a resident of the country for 2 years. Of course, if your grandkids are young, they have in place a program to have all 15 - 19 year olds placed either in a job, training or in school. What are they thinking, keeping kids busy and trained or employed!!!

So, by all means, flee from this "socialist" America and head down to Kiwi land...but, as Teapot Dome said, be sure you stay true to your values and do not take advantage of any of those things down there.

[spanky]

The topic is Norm Coleman is a loser. I see there's a tendancy to attack a poster by totally changing the topic. Usually when that happens one cannot or will not broach the topic because they lack intellectual substance.

[sparky]

..or they use a multitude of fake names.

[ExPatBrit]

Wolfson, NZ is way more socialist than the USA. Have you even considered that other Utopian libertarian paradise?

Cheap housing, as many guns (or even RPGs if you fancy some real sport shooting)as you can carry and no waiting period.

No taxes.

It's just perfect, if you gonna go "Galt".

Somalia. It's not just for warlords any more!

[spanky]

You would certainly know about that. LMAO

[Drew]

"I don't think Democrats stole the election, they voted voted for these people. thats worse"

Spoken like a true republican that believes it's much better for the cons to steal the election than to win one legitimately.

[sparky]

You're projecting again. Why not go back to your original name. Puts and KS miss you terribly.

[spanky]

See what I mean. LMAO

[sparky]

Well, that was expected. Nevermind, then.

[Rush sucks!]

The gop party was crushed. Now your side is in disarray. Loyal Americans know the gop does not speak for them.

[KS]

"There are no dead voters, the recount process has been bi-partisan and scrupulous as the state of Minnesota -- sticklers for process -- are known for."

The bipartisan process has been conducted well in MN, but that has nothing to do with the fact that dead voters have been found.
There is an ongoing court case about this after these discoveries were made, that an independent conservative activist organization (Not the Coleman campaign specifically) filed in court. Check it out. It has a slim chance of affecting anything, except showing voter fraud present in their election process just like here and makes Coleman out to be a poor loser.

Reactionary liberals...Read very carefully. By and large, I have to concur with the remainder of Blam's post, except that Rossi in 2004 was a decent candidate, but not so good in 2008. Facts can be hard to swallow, but at least I am able own up to it when the GOP screws up which has been too much lately. Thus I claim neither party on my voter preference.

[Rush sucks!]

it is possible we can deprogram KS, not sure about the others. Duffman is now worm meat.

[Puget Sound]

..or they use a multitude of fake names.

Posted by: sparky | June 07, 2009 at 04:51 PM

yes 'they' do. wonder what ever became of 'carlos'; 'dick gregory' or good ol 'storsie?'

oh sparky-coiler, at least ph(j)oanie hasn't caught on to it yet. LMAO.

[Bla'm's cat]

There will always be dead voters. Hopefully not as many who famously voted for Kennedy in Illinois in 1960. Nowhere that I know of (and I read WSJ commentator John Fund's conservative election fraud "expose") have there been significant numbers of people from graveyards found voting. By & large these cases are like the one old guy in Washington in 2004 who sent in his wife's mail ballot a couple months after she died. King County prosecuted him to set an example. (and the conservatives bitched about that. It was pretty thin gruel after Sharkansky claimed massive voter fraud. Oh yeah, there was the woman who got a ballot for her dog and sent it in. She was prosecuted too, although she claimed it was a "protest." Kirby is still mad about that...

[Luci Arnez]

Clearly, Norm Coleman isn't exactly tech-savvy. After a speaking engagement in St. Louis this week, he told a video-camera wielding supporter that the key to success for Republicans "lies in the ethernet."

Coleman, who was in Minnesota Supreme Court this week appealing the Senate election results, was in St. Louis to give a speech at the Conservative Heartland Leadership Conference.

[Minnesota native]

Back in April, Minnesota legal blogger Scott Johnson from the Power Line blog wrote a piece for National Review that summarized the situation there for both Coleman and Franken, and he noted that in spite of what it appeared like on the surface, that Franken was "not" trying to steal the election. Coleman's post-election day strategy has just been deeply flawed - not only that, but in all honesty he wouldn't be in this position if he had been a better Senator.

[Minnesota native]

Thanks to the "One Dollar a Day to Make Norm Coleman Go Away" effort at NormDollar.com, progressives across the country have provided Republicans with disincentive from funding Coleman's endless appeals. Due to Coleman's obstinance, progressives have raised over $140,000 to put toward assisting progressive candidates for Congress against the very Republicans whose Party leaders and funders are keeping Coleman's appeals going.

Getting the NormDollar.com effort over the $150,000 mark in advance of the Court's decision would provide a nice exclamation mark on Republicans' hesitation to continue financial support for Coleman's appeals.

If Republicans tell Coleman that they will not fund his appeals any longer, Coleman will be unable to continue his appeals, and we can finally get Senator-elect Franken seated. A contribution to the "One Dollar a Day to Make Norm Coleman Go Away" effort will encourage Republicans to send that very message to Coleman. LMAO

[Bamidji]

I'm from Minnesota too, and Coleman was a tool for whatever Bush was trying to do until it was too late and then he couldn't back up fast enough. This personal scandal with the expensive suits alleged as gifts didn't help, If he by some fluke won this election, can't imagine him having the credibility to govern.
Franken has work to do. The vote was split three ways, Like Bill Clinton in 1992, Franken didn't get a majority.

[joanie]

I, for one, am very interested to see what real difference it makes once Franken is in. The Dems are by no means cohesive.

The Rethuglicans cohered around corruption, greed and money.

The Democrats are a different breed. Not one breed at all!

I think I'm hoping Franken will be the key to getting healthcare off the table and finally implemented.

bTW, did anyone hear Press talking about Hillary's job of Sec'y of State being decided before the primaries were even completed? It was to get her out of Congress because there was so much bad blood as a result of her pursuing the nomination. She's a good Secretaty of State and I admire and respect her. It was interesting.

Al Gore was a shining example of decency. I bet he wouldn't do it again. Not after what he's seen from the Rethuglicans.

[woody held]

Never forget that there were 50,000 'enhanced' ballots in King County in the Gregoire vs. Rossi debacle. These were ballots that were incorrectly filled out and 'enhanced' in order to divine voter intent.

What kind of voter can't figure out how to fill in ovals? 50,000 of them in King Cty, apparently. Including one voter who wrote in 'Christine Rossi,' a vote which was ruled to count for Gregoire. Gov. Gregoire thanks the public school system from the bottom of her heart.

[joanie]

I love the term "enhanced" votes - those are the votes Rossi didn't want counted. People who voted but should have been rejected because . . . ???? So far, they haven't said. They just didn't want them counted.

Enhanced vote: another word for sour grapes.

[EvergreenRailfan]

ExPatBrit, forgot to mention the more fair election system they use now. It's a hybrid of the German Mixed Member Proportional system, that also gives affirmative action seats to the Maoris. The latter is based on how many Maoris chose to be on a separate voting roll. They can, and many chose, not to. So out of around 120 seats in the Parliament, it usually is 7-8 Maori constituency seats. The current system does not have electoral distortions that happen in many parliamentary systems, and even here at home in the U.S.(In 2006, too many contenders against Perry that wanted to defeat him as Governor of Texas saw him re-elected with less than 40% of the vote). At least across the Tasman Sea, there is a good example of electoral reform, Australia. IRV is used in the House of Representatives, while not too many independents and third parties in it, there are at least majority-elected MPs in every district. In the Australian Senate, they got third parties because of Proportional Representation, and the third parties, including an independent from South Australia, hold the balance of power, and whether they will see either an early election, or the rare double disolution election. That is where both houses are up for re-election, and in the Senate, benefits third parties even more.

Other things those who may not like the current situation and thinking, of moving to New Zealand, here may not like it there either. The National Party beat Labor, but has to have support of three other parties to stay in power, and the mandate is only from 2008-2011(Three year terms). United Future and Act NZ are issue-oriented right-wing parties, the former is on the social issues, the latter is free-market. The other party involved, the Maori Party.

[woody held]

Joanie, the 'enhanced' ballots were not 'the votes Rossi didn't want counted.' The term comes not from Rossi but from the records & elections dept, and refers to ballots that were incorrectly filled out, but deemed to be correctable and able to be counted. There were over 50,000 such ballots in King Cty. It surprised me because I remember taking tests in grade school that used a similar format, and never remember any kids having trouble filling in ovals. Maybe their answer was wrong, but none of them had problems with the concept of filling in an oval.