take your answer off the air...

  • HorsesAss.Org: the straight poop on WA politics & the press
    progressive brilliance from the guy who pointed out Tim Eyman's nascent horse's-assedness
  • Talker's Magazine
    The quirky talk radio trade mag. Check the Talk Radio Research Project- it's not very scientific, but places on the top 15 talkers list (scroll down to Talk Radio Audiences By Size)) are as hotly contested as Emmys (and mean just about as much).
  • The Advocate
    No, not THAT Advocate... it's the Northwest Progressive Institute's Official Blog.
  • Media Matters
    Documentation of right-wing media in video, audio and text.
  • Orcinus
    home of David Neiwert, freelance investigative journalist and author who writes extensively about far-right hate groups
  • Hominid Views
    "People, politics, science, and whatnot" Darryl is a statistician who fights imperialism with empiricism, gives good links and wry commentary.
  • Jesus' General
    An 11 on the Manly Scale of Absolute Gender, a 12 on the Heavenly Scale of the 10 Commandments and a 6 on the earthly scale of the Immaculately Groomed.
  • Howie in Seattle
    Howie Martin is the Abe Linkin' of progressive Seattle.
  • Streaming Radio Guide
    Hellishly long (5795!) list of radio streaming, steaming on the Internets.
  • The Naked Loon
    News satire -- The Onion in the Seattle petunia patch.
  • Irrational Public Radio
    "informs, challenges, soothes and/or berates, and does so with a pleasing vocal cadence and unmatched enunciation. When you listen to IPR, integrity washes over you like lava, with the pleasing familiarity of a medium-roast coffee and a sensible muffin."
  • The Maddow Blog
    Here's the hyper-interactive La Raych of MSNBC. daily show-vids, freakishly geeky research, and classy graphics.
  • Northwest Broadcasters
    The AM, FM, TV and digital broadcasters of Northwest Washington, USA and Southwest British Columbia, Canada. From Kelso, WA to the northern tip of Vancouver Island, BC - call letters, formats, slogans, networks, technical data, and transmitter maps. Plus "recent" news.
  • News Corpse
    The Internet's chronicle of media decay.
  • The Moderate Voice
    The voice of reason in the age of Obama, and the politics of the far-middle.
  • News Hounds
    Dogged dogging of Fox News by a team who seems to watch every minute of the cable channel so you don't have to.
  • HistoryLink
    Fun to read and free encyclopedia of Washington State history. Founded by the late Walt Crowley, it's an indispensable tool and entertainment source for history wonks and surfers alike.

right-wing blogs we like

  • The Reagan Wing
    Hearin lies the real heart of Washington State Republicans. Doug Parris runs this red-meat social conservative group site which bars no holds when it comes to saying who they are and who they're not; what they believe and what they don't; who their friends are and where the rest of the Republicans can go. Well-written, and flaming.
  • Orbusmax
    inexhaustible Drudgery of NW conservative news
  • The Radio Equalizer
    prolific former Seattle KVI, KIRO talk host speaks authoritatively about radio.
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« Colbert report report: conservatives don't get the joke | Main | Shoot! it's the gosh-durned, dad-burned, freakin' FCC, again... »

April 29, 2009

Comments

Puget Sound

both may have happened in the past, but i would point out that acts committed by the bush administration were in the cause of protecting this country and were effective in preventing at least one attack in LA. you and i may agree or disagree as to what was done but it was done to keep our country safe. do you really feel comfortable with the proposition that is being offered now?

specifically, prosecuting attorneys for -in good faith- the offering of a legal memo is amazing.
and -for what it is worth- i would point out to what bush did when he took office. he put an end to all the clinton investigations. bush had control of both the house and senate. he could have kept it going. he understood that no good would come of it.
pres obama can end the investigations or keep 'em going. be may find that at the end of his presidency that the world will look different than it does today. don't be so sure that the dems will always have the majority. that's the same hubris that caused the repubs to implode.
for example, if we suffer terrorist attacks or when he releases those Gitmo prisoners en masse do you really want former pres obama to be held accountable via a congressional investigation?
you let a 911 type attack occur on res obama's watch and you'll see us going back to code yellow/red/orange so f'n quick your head will spin.

Puget Sound

"Animals that freeze to death is funny to you, Puts?

Posted by: sparky | May 01, 2009 at 07:53 PM"

Animals? That's not a very nice way to refer to Randi Listeners. I admit that those who listen to Randi aren't particularly bright but to call 'em animals is a little beyond the pale.

Coiler

Sparky, It was supposed to be a metaphor It failed.


The fact of the matter is re: Bush and 9/11, it happened on Bushler' watch. Bush did receive the August memo mentioned many times here. Bush and Condi ignored this.

Why say what will happen to our esteemed prez when our side made an attempt and it was ignored by the side whose watch it happened on?

sparky

Fail

M.Steele

I don’t believe LA plot was prevented due to torture. I need proof. And yes I’m in favor of throwing lawyers in jail if they broke the law. Though I doubt it will happen. Bush put an end to the Clinton investigations because they worked. He was elected over Gore therefore he didn’t need it. If the ex-president had many more BJs to hide who the heck cares. I don’t have any illusions about the Democratic party, if we hold the law breakers accountable we will be known as the law and order party. Remember, Bush did release Gitmo prisoners that turned to the violence you suggest. How many times do we have to do the same thing and expect a different result? By the way…911 happened during the Bush administration. Clearly it frightened the crap out of him…not me, I took my kids out the parks and enjoyed clear blue sky absent the jet liners. Endured the death of a friend, and refused to mark folks as enemy due to their ethnic identity.

M.Steele

Sparky....yuck...

question, what is this thing about Randi? and Joanie for that matter?

KS

Not necessarily so. Lots of nubie trolls here and a lot of them seem to be negligent of reading other peoples email carefully. By recent activity or lack thereof, I can already instinctively tell that "Duffman" is an imposter.

Duff makes a difference of increased intellect on this blog, by taking the road less traveled in his comments. It has slipped away into the intellectual abyss since he left.

Puget Sound

M Steele
I guess you and former VP Cheney are on the same wavelength as that is exactly what he wants to do: release the memo.


Actually, Bush did release some of the Gitmo prisoners -the ones that they felt were safe- and about 10 percent of them turned up on the battlefield again. Logic dictates that of the remaining ones still in Gitmo are the hardcore ones and it will be unlikely that we will get away with only ten percent of them turning to violence.

I've been to work across the street many times from the WTC. Talk to the people there who went through it. Heck, when Air Force 1 buzzed the city the other day you had mass panic. Easy for you or I up in Seattle to be calm and cool.

And Coils, go through that memo and find out where the threat was. There was no specificity to the memo that you referenced. I recall Condi Rice during the 911 commission hearings making one of the members eat a cobbler after a bit of grandstanding on the part of Richard Ben Venesta.

sparky

Puts calls Randi's listners sheep.
As for joanie, he goes to great lengths to get her attention on here.
It's weird.

nevets

Coiler, take note of that link Sparky posted, wouldn't want you to share the same fate. Words of wisdom for you Coiler, stay in your "bowl"

M.Steele

Huh??? Let me be clear, I don't read anyones e-mail. I'm not Bush.

sparky

Nuance escapes you doesn't it, steven.

M.Steele

KS, Your instinct is a direct reflection on your intellect.

nevets

Not to forget Puts, if you happened to looked, the Navy had a Destroyer and a Frigate patrolling both Elliot Bay and Sinclair Inlet.

Puget Sound

yikes. ol' coiler has earned that name.

yep, a lot of people were very scared that day. a destroyer and a frigate. very impressive.

it's easy to say 7 plus years later how calm some of us were.


M.Steele

No, Cheney only wants two memos released. I want a full blown investigation.
“Logic dictates that of the remaining ones still in Gitmo are the hardcore ones and it will be unlikely that we will get away with only ten percent of them turning to violence.”
OK, where does this logic exist? How do we know the remaining are the hardcore?
“Easy for you or I up in Seattle to be calm and cool.”
Hey Bub, this is me. This is who I am. I don’t feel safe because I live here, as a matter of fact I’m not from here and have many relatives in that area. And I would suggest there are many more of us in the nation than the boob tube would have you believe. After all there were many folks in the area disregarding their own safety to help others.
My bottom line, I want the OBL to pay. And I want my country back. If that means throwing folks in jail then so be it.

Puget Sound

"Puts calls Randi's listners sheep.
As for joanie, he goes to great lengths to get her attention on here.
It's weird.

Posted by: sparky | May 01, 2009 at 09:14 PM"

I also do the same with Coiler. I enjoy making both look foolish. A character flaw no doubt but i'll own up to it.

Coiler

"binLaden determined to
strike in the US". Do you think they were going to say "trick or treat"?

Also read the "Phoenix Memo"

M.Steele

Wow, ok. Is that the end game? To make folk look foolish?

M.Steele

Sparky, does that mean she gets a good crowd of listeners?

M.Steele

I wonder what that makes Limbaugh listeners. After all he calls them “ditto heads”

nevets

Ok I read those Memos that Coiler has asked for us to read (again) and still I find myself more confused as to why Coiler and the rest of you Libs are against the Iraq War. Because as far as I can tell, Coiler is saying President Bush should have done something with barely an ounce of evidence or collaboration that an imminent attack was about to happen and then when he does do something with more evidence and collaboration about Iraqs WMDs to protect America from another such attack, you libs raise a stink about it.

I just dont get it.

Coiler

Iraq war?

M.Steele

nevets:

I suggest you keep the same attitude. By the way spread what you think and tell everyone why you feel the way you do as you do here. I’m sure agreement will be felt all-around and you will be vindicated. Coiler will sink into his hole and bush will become the hero he is. Just be sure to let everyone know you are a republican.

nevets

"And I want my country back."

M.S., this is the USA. Not the USSR.

Puget Sound

Hey M Steele:

You don't want to put terrorist in our jail system. That's bad. In the 1990's the Cllnton Admin tried to adopt a law enforcement approach that failed. Read the 911 Commission Report. It's a good study. After 911, we went to a military approach. No attacks in the US for over 7 years. Pres Obama looks to go back to the law enforcement approach again. It better work.

Yes, VP Cheney wants the memos that demonstrate the incidents in which the techniques worked. I am damn glad that they stopped the attack in LA. I have no idea what you meant with 'And I would suggest there are many more of us in the nation than the boob tube would have you believe. After all there were many folks in the area disregarding their own safety to help others.' Helping others/saving lives isn't a political issue.

Logic would be that the process has been in place to winnow out the people held in Gitmo that were still a threat. Name the countries that are lining up to take 'em back?

For the 'logic' question:
"Gitmo holds three classes of terrorist detainees: first, those that are held for prosecution of terrorist acts such as Khalid Sheik Muhammed; second, those who cannot be prosecuted and will be released or transferred to another country for trial or incarceration; and third, those who cannot be prosecuted (because the information against them is intelligence information inadmissible in court) but who pose such a danger that they cannot be released.

The last category encompasses a large number of the Gitmo detainees. The Supreme Court has held -- in the Hamdan decision -- that “administrative detention” is permissible in time of war.

After Obama’s promise to close Gitmo, the White House ordered an inter-agency review of the status of all the detainees, apparently believing that many of those held would be quickly determined releasable. The committee -- comprised of all the national security agencies -- was tasked to start with what the Obama administration believed to be the easiest case: that of the seventeen Uighurs, Chinese Muslims who were captured at an al-Queda training camp.

The Uighurs sued for release under the Supreme Court’s Boumediene decision, which gave Gitmo prisoners the Constitutional right to habeas corpus. Last October, a federal court ordered their release into the United States, but an appeals court overturned the decision, saying the right to make that determination rested entirely with the president. Since then, Attorney General Eric Holder has said that some of the Gitmo inmates may be released into the United States.

That, apparently, is what the White House plans for the Uighurs and others.

Reviewing the Uighurs detention, the inter-agency panel found that they weren’t the ignorant, innocent goatherds the White House believed them to be. The committee determined they were too dangerous to release because they were members of the ETIM terrorist group, the “East Turkistan Islamic Movement,” and because their presence at the al-Queda training camp was no accident. There is now no ETIM terrorist cell in the United States: there will be one if these Uighurs are released into the United States."

The Chinese Gov't have asked for 'em back. Of course, they'll kill 'em as soon as they step foot in China.

Anyway, Obama may find that the best place in the world for these people to be is a location that is bordered by water on three sides and a communist country on its backside.

Puget Sound

"Sparky, does that mean she gets a good crowd of listeners?

Posted by: M.Steele | May 01, 2009 at 09:51 PM

Oh M Steele, the crowd is small but it is very very loyal. Those sheep listen hard to get 'the word.'

Puget Sound

Hey M Steele
Looks like Obama is finding this whole Gitmo-dealie a little more complex than what he thought it to be on the campaign trail.

Pres Obama likely to revive the military courts for Gitmo.

Check it out. Courtesy the NY Times:

gotta figure out how to blame this back on Bush

Puget Sound

From CNN:
"In a move that drew sharp criticism from some lawmakers, President Obama recently released government memos detailing the enhanced interrogation techniques used on terror suspects during the Bush administration.

The techniques included waterboarding, a system designed to make suspects believe they are drowning, open hand slaps, putting a terror suspect who is afraid of insects in a small room with one and sleep deprivation. Obama has banned the use of all those techniques.

The government memos also detailed how in March 2003, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, mastermind of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, was the third and final suspect to be waterboarded by the CIA. When interrogators previously sought information from KSM about a pending attack, he told them, “Soon you will know,” according to a memo.

After the CIA interrogators waterboarded KSM, however, the terrorist provided them with information that allowed the U.S. government to foil a terror cell “tasked” with flying a jet into a building in Los Angeles."


So M Steele, if these 'enhanced techniques' that Pres Obama wants to replace the waterboarding, the caterpillar, no sleeping, etc with Don't Work, what say you?

When a high value prisoner like KSM tells you 'soon you'll know.' what do you do?

(And yes, when you get information from waterboarding you have to make sure it is true and not just info fed to you to get you to stop)

But to use it selectively seems reasonable. I did like Pres Obama's use of England as a country that doesn't use torture to get information. Just ask those IRA prisoners about that...

Puget Sound

"Iraq war?

Posted by: Coiler | May 01, 2009 at 10:43 PM"


Yeah, it's been in all the newspapers since 2003.

You really should get out more.

sparky


gullible
"someone who will swallow anything thrown at him."

There is the whole right-wing indoctrination mantra in a nutshell.

Not so different from the Randi fans you make fun of, Puts.

HoChiMinh

And PS CONTINUES to make the 'regulars' look silly, while their retort is usually an attack on PS's character. Face it your just not up to that intelligence level and your weak efforts are actually comical. LMAO

Leftist Thought is an Oxymoron

I believe that we see many of the regulars make them selves look silly on a day to day basis on this blog.

KS

from M.Steele -

"KS, Your instinct is a direct reflection on your intellect."

WTF ? Profound statement, dude.

KS

"you believe. After all there were many folks in the area disregarding their own safety to help others.
My bottom line, I want the OBL to pay. And I want my country back. If that means throwing folks in jail then so be it."

Let me get this straight, you think we'll have the tools to get OBL after declawing the CIA ? He'll probably die of natural causes before then. They did that in the 70's and it cost us 444 hoatages in Iran. I think that if Hannity would get waterboarded and Bush volunteer for it also, that would quell the debate which smells like a political witch hunt. I don't see it making this country any stronger if the witch trials proceed, more likely perceived as weaker. But in political bloodsport it may be perceived by the Dimocrats and George Soros to cripple the GOP, but on the world scale, it will leave us more vulnerable to Al Qaeda, the Ruskies, Iran, Chi Coms and the like in this narcissist nation.

super eight

KS needs the CIA to find binLaden, what's next, a note from his mommy to prosecute Cheney?

dwarf semiphore

Holding people accountable for violating the law makes us "weaker"?
You have been watching too many episodes of "24."

Mack

The only group that will get weaker is the republican't party. This is why they are the ones putting up so much resistance against a criminal investigation. Cheney/Bush did a lot of damage to the cons, and indictments against high-ranking republicans could make the party irrelevent for decades.

Drew

If KS needs to go fight the Roooskies, he's gonna need some allies, and not the ones we have to pay to join us, you know, Bushler's heavy-hitters like Morocco, and Costa Rico, and Palau. Since all of the countries with real military hardware and democratically elected governments don't believe in torture, including waterboarding, KS will have to make some obvious gestures towards condemning all forms of torture. Additionally, he'll have to make a serious effort to investigate the previous administration, with full public disclosure to restore global trust. KS will not be willing to do this, largely because his advisors Limbaugh and Hannity, along with his SecState Coulter will insist that "we go it alone". Of course, this will make us less safe, and the citizens will consider tossing him into the Chum Grinder 3000. This can all be avoided if we make sure to NOT elect KS for President. Or anyone who thinks like him. Or anyone that KS endorses.

Drew

Who in the hell are the Chi Coms?? A one-hit-wonder band on your 8-track collection?

Puget Sound

Hey Drew
Whatcha think about the article from the NY Times about the Gitmo 'dealie?' I posted it yesterday and none of the usual suspects could muster up a comment. Ha ha ha. No comment about this? KS, Nevets, Chucks, and a few others aren't surprised. Would be soooo fascinating to hear what the libs who wanted the awful Gitmo closed are thinking.

Here is a recap:
"Barack Obama promised to close the detention center at Guantanamo Bay and end the military tribunal process that he opposed as a Senator for its detainees if elected President. After taking the oath of office, Obama fulfilled that promise by ordering the shutdown of Gitmo and halting the tribunals. Now, three months later, the Obama administration can’t find nations willing to accept murderous, lunatic terrorists as guests, and suddenly those military tribunals look pretty good"

Puget Sound

or maybe that cold snap took out ALL the Randi listeners...

dwarf semiphore


Maybe its beacuz you have an IQ of 2.

Pity it takes 3 to grunt.

super eight

puget sound cries out for others to help him, sounds like a typical republican feeding at the trough

"help me chuckwagon, nevets, ks,"

Drew

Why are these prisoners the problem of other countries? It's the unfinished business of King George the W, and you should be asking him. But here's my solution: there's a "secluded safe haven" as it's brochure advertised, just outside of Dallas, TX. There's still a lot of land available (probably because of its exorbitant price), but if we get in there right now, we can claim it as our own for this important cause (that's what we do. Oil is a really good cause, for instance). Texans are patriotic, God-fearin' white folk, and they don't mind welcomin' newcomers into Preston Hollow, the exclusive up-scale neighborhood where Bushler is now living. They can pave a bike trail around the new detention center, where Texans can ride their Huffys with their Winchesters at the ready, doin' their part to keep Texass safe from persons Bush imprisoned since 2003 without charges, lawyers, or trials.

Leftist Thought is an Oxymoron

They ought to just take that scum up in a C17 and dump them out over the Atlantic and feed the sharks.
Fuck them. Just be done with them.
They mean nothing to this world beyond their evil.

KS

KS will not be willing to do this, largely because his advisors "Limbaugh and Hannity, along with his SecState Coulter will insist that "we go it alone". Of course, this will make us less safe, and the citizens will consider tossing him into the Chum Grinder 3000. This can all be avoided if we make sure to NOT elect KS for President. Or anyone who thinks like him. Or anyone that KS endorses."

Drew, there you go again. You don't know what in the hell you are talking about. Where have U extoled Limbaugh and Hannity. Stop being a lightweight by mouthing left-wing CNN and MSNBC talking points. You prove once again that Leftist thought is an oxymoron.

"KS needs the CIA to find binLaden, what's next, a note from his mommy to prosecute Cheney?"

What are you talking about ? The CIA is an important cog in fighting this war against the IslamoLeninists (in the words of Thomas Friedman). You didn't understand my last post - reread and understand before you look stupid with your ignorant comments.

KS

should read;
Where have I extoled Limbaugh and Hannity ? They do not contribute that much to an intelligent dialogue - too ideological - for the record.

Drew

Bush? Cheney? Rove? Fed to sharks? Hey, I'd go for that. That's a great idea.

KS

Nice joke. Are you reading comprehension challenged or are you doing your Stephen Colbert schtick ? Maybe in Lord of the Flies, but not in a established world power that is a nation of laws.

Both parties have ventured off the tracks - the last 8 years went way off and submerged the GOP as a result. Now the Dems have their chance try and make the nation and economy, but would rather venture off on the wrong track and systematically overreach and continue many of the same mistakes in overreaching in the other direction made by the GOP when they were in power. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely...

The conversation here has sunk to a low intellectual level that parallels with the recent stock market. Fewer ideologically based and more thought provoking topics would be a refreshing change and probably bring more substance here, which is influenced by the posts - just sayin'

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