War on Xmas: is the nightmare over?

Kirby Wilbur said it Friday: if there were no holiday displays in the capitol building, "it would be better than the mess we've got down there."

Our sediments exactly!

The atheists may have won one for once. The strategy behind their controversial sign was that no holiday messages and displays should be posted where the state does its secular business.

But General Administration has called a moratorium for the year, making the decision after receiving more applications than it had anticipated and "that reasonably can be accommodated in the display area set aside on the third floor of the Legislative Building,"

Bill O' Reilly will claim victory, even though the atheists' infamous sign will not be taken down as he has demanded.

The skirmish started by cranky atheists and their equal time anti-religious sign in the Capitol Rotunda attracted some of the most accomplished media whores in the business: Bill O'Reilly, Rev. Ken Hutcherson, and the cartoonish God-hates-Fags Christians of Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas.

Other than the annual sound & fury of the billowing zealots, a few callers-in to talk radio, or the 'bots hauled down to the Capitol after church by Hutcherson, plus most people don't connect the state capitol with the holidays.

The Governor and the Attorney General, to their credit, never bent despite the threats by Hutcherson, and O'Reilly.

Most Washingtonians just laughed at the spectacle.

The Westboro Baptists asked to include a message that included references to Santa, rape and "God's hate."

Westboro's Shirley Phelps Roper made the rounds of talk radio (Dori Monson, The Commentators) and requested permission to put up a sign titled “Santa Claus Will Take You to Hell.”

(When Ken Schram (KVI m-f 10a-2p) said "Merry Christmas" to Phelps-Roper, she replied, "May you have a merry bloody rectum!").

Other requests affected by the moratorium are a "Flying Spaghetti Monster" display; a Buddhist request; the Festivus display, and a Christian goodwill message to atheists. But the General Administration people decided to hang it up for another year... no more expressions of holiday opinions in 2008.

But they're leaving up everything that's already there: the atheists letter, Rev. Hutcherson's answer, the balloon nativity, the creche, the menorah, and the Pork Rind Madonna.

Comments

[sparky]

Pork Rind Madonna? She will do anything to sell records, won't she.

[PugetSound]

war on christmas is over. peace within out time.

hey, anyone catch the mention of the new yorker article a few months ago. in it rahm emanual is talking about how he and barrack 'ran' the blago campaign for governor. too funny.

morning joe is the best morning show around.
joe refuses to be part of the media that has put on the blinders and 'hoping for the best' for obama....

great wall street article.

hmmm, why oh why?

[Habu]

Speaking of war, some light reading and a way for Zero to castarate our strategic nuclear forces by doing nothing:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122930027871805333.html?mod=djemEditorialPage

[Duffman]

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night(mare).

[Gerald]

Oh Mr. Puget Sound,

First of all, “you’re just as bad as us” is not an effective taunt. Anybody can say that, with the possible exception of the Seattle Mariners. Secondly, we’re not as bad as you. Yes, we have a few bad apples. But the GOP is a rancid orchard. If Rod Blagojevich was a Republican, he wouldn’t even stand out, except for his atrocious haircut. But in a party that includes Rudy Giuliani, even that’s not a given.

The Republicans would love to tie Blagojevich to Obama. But Obama has been avoiding Blagojevich as if he was radioactive. Of course, with the way Republicans support nuclear power, maybe that doesn’t seem like much to you. Put it this way: Obama has been avoiding Blagojevich really hard. The guy has been under investigation for ages. Democrats have been avoiding him the way Republicans avoid George Bush.

True, Blagojevich was trying to sell Obama’s Senate seat to the highest bidder, but there’s no evidence that he was working on commission. Quite the opposite, actually—Blagojevich is heard on the wiretap tapes referring to Obama as a “mother&#%*.” I know Obama is putting together a team of rivals, but that epithet usually indicates a divide beyond rivalry. In any case, Blagojevich is also heard complaining that the Obama camp won’t give him anything except “appreciation.” In Republican circles, I’m sure that’s generally a euphemism for a kickback. If that’s what Blagojevich meant, I’m certain he would have used the term “kickback.” As the tapes make clear, subtlety is not his strong suit.

Yes, Chicago politics is notoriously corrupt. As for Blagojevich, the guy is too corrupt even for Chicago. Maybe he should move to Alaska and run for the Senate.

[Duffman]

Is Sarah Palin such a 'player' that she has to be referenced time and again? Is there an inherent fear here? Hmmm 'just sayin'...

[Gerald]

At the same time that the Bush Administration won't say whether or not it will use TARP funds to save the auto industry, we learn that it has eviscerated the regulations in the original bailout bill limiting executive compensation:

Congress wanted to guarantee that the $700 billion financial bailout would limit the eye-popping pay of Wall Street executives, so lawmakers included a mechanism for reviewing executive compensation and penalizing firms that break the rules.

But at the last minute, the Bush administration insisted on a one-sentence change to the provision, congressional aides said. The change stipulated that the penalty would apply only to firms that received bailout funds by selling troubled assets to the government in an auction, which was the way the Treasury Department had said it planned to use the money.

Now, however, the small change looks more like a giant loophole, according to lawmakers and legal experts. In a reversal, the Bush administration has not used auctions for any of the $335 billion committed so far from the rescue package, nor does it plan to use them in the future. Lawmakers and legal experts say the change has effectively repealed the only enforcement mechanism in the law dealing with lavish pay for top executives.

Basically, if you're a white collar executive, the GOP treats you like a king, and if you're anybody else, you can spend an eternity in limbo for all they care.

[Coiler]

Good points Gerald, Bush is cashing out at more of a record pace than ever. He has taken no leadership in 8 years, we have record deficits to show.

[Duffman]

Almost wants to make you throw your shoes at him, doesn't it.
PRAY Obama keeps us as safe!
We'll see, won't we.

[rozskat]

Duff – Finally made it out of a few doctor’s appointments here and there. As for your inquiry about Palin, there is no fear except for her anti-intellectual rants, the crowd she attracts, and her demagoguery. Nevertheless, she will fade by 2012 and the GOP will need to appeal to a different constituency aside from the angry white pro-religion crowd that infested McCain-Palin rallies or they will continue to be the minority party. Sorry GG there will be no “1994” in 2010 mid term elections.

I did read global warming comments in another section and could not stop from being amused at their logic. I do work in this field with scientists involved in climate change research but I am not a scientist. I work with equipment associated with their collection of data. This should bring up more “fraud” charges against me from my old acquaintance, Nevets.

The comparison of the current cold spell to elude that global warming is a fraud is an old argument and a baseless analogy. It only exposes their knowledge or the lack of about the subject. There is more to it than air temperature and relative humidity and it is in that jurisdiction where I do my work on board scientific research vessels. Up until 2007, I worked on a ship that zig zagged across the Equatorial Pacific from the Galapagos to the Solomons, collecting data for El Nino, La Nina and climate change for five years. I now work with coral reef assessment and mapping of ocean floors. It is linked to climate change or “global warming” research. Does that make me an expert? No, as compared to the scientists I have worked with.

It would have been worth to join the global warming debate. However, when I start seeing references from Vice President Gore, Rush Limbaugh, Senator James Inhofe, and his 650 dissident scientists I could see where the debate was going. Besides this is a talk radio blog and detailed scientific information would bore others. In addition, whatever knowledge I may have on the subject is within my realm, may not be complete, and any information released through official channels.

When it comes to the topic of science and technology, I am willing to forgo politics. The unfortunate aspect of scientific issues such as global warming is that the press only interviews politicians, attorneys or other journalists. If they were to interview people I know, they would appeal to only those in the field. Why do you think there is not a large objection from scientists in Al Gore making his pitch about global warming? When people deny climate change or global warming, are they attacking the science? On the other hand, are they attacking Vice President Gore and his politics? Let say, the tables are turned and Sarah Palin or Rush Limbaugh voiced their opinion for global warming, would those naysayers on BW believe them or would they attack Palin and Limbaugh as they do with Gore?

[PugetSound]

"Why do you think there is not a large objection from scientists in Al Gore making his pitch about global warming? "

Follow the money, Rozskat.
A lot of money embedded in those research grants.
Climate change is one thing, it's the impact of man on the Climate change that is debatable

[PugetSound]

Gerald
Nice of you to work in a Rudy Combover crack. Too be fair, he snipped off that stuff a few years ago. But I agree, it was pretty sad.
I actually think Obama wasn't gonna do dirty business with the Gov. But that doesn't mean his minions aren't knee deep in it.
But we'll find out. Those Special Prosecutors have a way of getting to the truth.
Don't be a stranger to the Blog.

[PugetSound]

Gerald
Wow, it really isn't as you say and just a Gov Blago dealie.

Check this out.

ouch

Or this

ouch ouch

or this

ouch ouch ouch

[PugetSound]

Gerald
Please call me Puts or Putz or whatever you would like but don't call me Mister!

[Nevets]

I don't doubt you work on a ship Roz. Just that you retired from the Navy. Your timeline, not consistent with doing 20.

Now how about these...

"Why do you think there is not a large objection from scientists in Al Gore making his pitch about global warming?"

How about them 650 "dissident scientists". Is that not an objection. And that number has been growing since the IPCC released thier last report. Why is that? Alot of those 650 were involved in that report.

"I now work with coral reef assessment and mapping of ocean floors."

I've read that there have been more and more active volcanos being discovered rising from the ocean floor these days as equipment gets better at detecting such stuff. If that is true, that could explain the warmer water and the rise in the oceans. You know what happens when you put something in water right?

Now if you Gorebal Warming freaks just came out and said "hey, we might have a problem." I might of bought into it. But when they also came out and said "hey, the way to fix the problem is for us to set forth a "Cap and Trade" policy" which Gore is a founding member of such a company, then I see fraud written all over it. Its like Cities coming out and saying that red light cameras are needed to stop red light runners but then use them to enhance thier revenue by giving tickets to people making right turns on red.

[Coiler]

Don't make a right turn on a red then. Stop first.

[Nevets]

It does seem odd that since the red light cameras have been installed in various cities across this state that more and more homes are going into foreclosure. Look at King County, foreclosures are up 41% from last year, this after Seattle put up 18 more red light cameras in the city in Jan. 08. Could these homeowners have found themselves between a rock and a hard place and decided that getting arrested in the future was not something they wanted and decided that thier homes would have to go instead? Interesting. Will have to look at other cities like Everrett.

[sparky]

what a coincidence..since the red light cameras have been installed, there has been an upswing in births at the local hospital. Must mean those red lights made those people horny.

[Coiler]

do you have data from other cities that use red light cameras and can make a connection to home foreclosures? Did you check San Joaquin county? Las Vegas?

[Nevets]

I said i'll look into it more Coiler. Do they have red light cameras in them areas or are you just being an ass?

Sparky, you are just being a smartass with that statement. Not surprised anymore of something like that coming from you. Do you like embarrassing yourself here.

Anyhow, maybe in some weird way you see a connection between sex and red light cameras. I dont. Births and foreclosures I do, since that would be an additional expense on a household. But most couples who decide to have a baby would have looked at that expense beforehand and weighed the consequences. Most couples.

A red light ticket on the otherhand, is an unexpected expense. An expense that the one being ticketed would have to make a decision. A decision to either pay the mortgage, put food on the table, or pay the ticket. Each having an impact on the household.

[Coiler]

Don't get snippy, so close to the birth of jeezus, ok stevie?

[chucks]

I see where John Gibson is taking over The Radio Factor next month when O'Reilly gives up the show. Something like 400 stations carry the program accross the country.
Hope he does well with it. Gibson is one of the good guys.

[Habu]

Morning Schmoe asked a few good questions of his liberal gang this morning. Buyers remorse appears to be showing:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2008/12/16/scarborough-msm-was-wasilla-instead-investigating-obama-blago-conn

Mika Hopper looked good for a change; especially for a lib, most who are famously plain or in the class of Helen Thomas.

[KS]

I like Gibson also and is probably better for radio than O'Reilly. Bill O's schtick is the TV Factor and he has been at it for 10 years now on this blog's favorite cable news channel to blog about.

[joanie]

Roz, you work on CG ships? I know a guy who does that and he's out three-to-six months at a time - mostly up in the Arctic - working with research scientists. He says the same thing. The evidence for warming is incontrovertible. Besides being common sense.

He has some interesting stories to relate. Bet you do, too.

As for that list of scientists who disagree with the planet is warming due to people, I think "follow the money" applies to them. Don't you?

Gerald: I think the Dems should have caught that loophole. There's something wrong with a process that accommodates last minute changes that that don't get reviewed.

[rozskat]

Good to be back Joanie. I did not realize I had a fan club of detractors who seem to enjoy deriding others who do not share their beliefs or values.

I work directly for National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and as Steven indicates am very competent at reading temperature gauge. The ones I read are all electronic and digital, requiring programming to display and record data in the scientific computer system at which is one of the things I do. So there is more involvement to it.

Is the CG vessel your friend is on the Healy?

[joanie]

I'll find out when I see him again and let you know. He loves it and learns so much, but his family isn't always so gracious. They are good people but they miss him.

He's getting out in a year or so.

BTW, I wasn't aware before meeting and talking to him just how much money is involved in the research and trips they host. People pay up front for the transportation and it runs about $80,000 as I recall.

I get a buzz being around smart and curious people. Guess that's why I love teaching. I learn so much from my kids and parents. Every day is an adventure!

And for those people who parrot history books and google information that proves what they already believe, that's not open-minded curiosity. That's entrenched ignorance.

Have a great snow day, Roz!

Oh, I just thought of something! One of my kids several years ago gave a report in class about the Healy! Her dad was in the CG and the Healy was named after an African American. Right? I'm sorry I don't remember the whole story because it was five or six years ago. But I kept my copy of the report. I'll have to dig it out and reread it.

Do you know the story of Healy?

[rozskat]

Here is a link to the history of the Healy. http://www.uscg.mil/pacarea/cgcHealy/history.asp

I did take a tour on that ship a few years ago when one of their marine science techs invited several of us to come aboard. I know there is another CG icebreaker of which I cannot think of its name…something like Polar Star. I recall because they had the same television receiving equipment on board with the same problems and read their reports about it.

Years ago it cost around $17,000 a day to operate a NOAA ship underway. With fuel price fluctuations it is a bit higher now. One of our collateral missions is deploying tsunami buoys off Hawaii. Several of those deployments consisted of experiments with second generation tsunami buoys being developed by PMEL here in Seattle.

Fortunately for me I only go to sea 60 days at a time. Even with this liberal schedule as compared to the military, there are families that are not happy. However, the increases on paychecks cause many to change their minds. I cannot tell you how many counterparts threaten to quit but are afraid of pay cut. Plus with the way the economy is you cannot beat a government job. In my situation being in Hawaii during the winter months is a bonus! I leave next month for Honolulu for seven weeks.

Due to my rank I get my own stateroom and head (bathroom for land lubbers). Along with 24/7 Internet we do have TV but unfortunately it is only Fox News, a.k.a. video waterboarding.

I do enjoy the topics discussed here but there are a few who take things a bit too serious. Liven up I say to them, it isn’t a do or die situation. You or Sparks should come out and spend a cruise in the Northwest Hawaiian Islands with the Teacher at Sea program during the summer. However, I would hold out for an archeological cruise though. Those are fun as they dive for shipwrecks.

Have a good snow day!

[Duffman]

WOW! I'm impressed.

[Nevets]

I would think you would have to be higher in rank than a LTJG to get your own stateroom Roz. Especially on a ship so small. That is unless you are going as an observer/instructor in a specialty rate such as a diver to ensure the safety of the the ship and personnel. Maybe you are going to the NOAA ship that had that problem last year. Did that diver die? I hope not and hope if that is what you are doing that you fix the problem.

I to think Sparky and Joanie should go along for a cruise on a NOAA ship. That is unless they get sea sick. Wouldn't be much fun if you were in your rack all the time.

[sparky]

Im a desert girl, actually. I'll find a dig to go on.

[rozskat]

Steven – LTJG NOAA Corps officers share rooms unless they are navigation officers. But that is up to the ship they are on. All department chiefs, CO, XO and Ops Officers have their own staterooms. I am on former Navy TAGOS class ships so you may have an idea on what the interior is like.

As for the diving accident earlier this year that took place in the Keys. The message came to the ship abruptly while we were at Jarvis Island. We had to dispatch small boats to bring divers back to the ship for safety stand down. The diver at the Keys did pass away immediately. I am not positive on what caused his death. We do have a dive master on board at all times for equipment inspection, maintenance and diver safety.

I have seen Teachers at Sea and guests get sea sick. The face turn green but tell us they are never seasick but “tired.” We’ve heard it before! Ha Ha. First few days of a cruise the galley is void of new scientists and guests due to seasickness.

[joanie]

I'd love to try that, Roz! And a dig as well, Sparky. I've been told I should look into overseas teaching jobs. Maybe I will one day. Sounds exciting!

[Nevets]

If it anything like the YTT Battle Point, I do and cramped is calling it mildly. But the incident I was refering to was in Hawaii this year. But it has been awhile so many of the causes have probably been reviewed and corrective action implemented.

I worked alongside divers for 3 years. Not directly involved in diving, but in maintenance of thier small boats and have great respect for them guys. hooya. I always got a laugh when a wannabe would come for a few weeks for thier Initiation. Mudpups they would call them. If it wasn't hazing, I dont have another name for it. Everywhere they went they had to have this 8 foot long 10 inch double braided nylon mooring line with them. It was his buddy. Hooya Masterdiver.

[Puget Sound]

"I'd love to try that, Roz! And a dig as well, Sparky. I've been told I should look into overseas teaching jobs. Maybe I will one day. Sounds exciting!

Posted by: joanie | December 18, 2008 at 06:27 PM"

That would be the Principal who told you that, right?

[Puget Sound]

Nevets, thought of you after seeing this.

Climate Change...yes. But which way?

"CNN Meteorologist Chad Myers had never bought into the notion that man can alter the climate and the Vegas snowstorm didn’t impact his opinion. Myers, an American Meteorological Society certified meteorologist, explained on CNN’s Dec. 18 “Lou Dobbs Tonight” that the whole idea is arrogant and mankind was in danger of dying from other natural events more so than global warming.

“You know, to think that we could affect weather all that much is pretty arrogant,” Myers said. “Mother Nature is so big, the world is so big, the oceans are so big – I think we’re going to die from a lack of fresh water or we’re going to die from ocean acidification before we die from global warming, for sure.”

Myers is the second CNN meteorologist to challenge the global warming conventions common in the media. He also said trying to determine patterns occurring in the climate would be difficult based on such a short span.

“But this is like, you know you said – in your career – my career has been 22 years long,” Myers said. “That’s a good career in TV, but talking about climate – it’s like having a car for three days and saying, ‘This is a great car.’ Well, yeah – it was for three days, but maybe in days five, six and seven it won’t be so good. And that’s what we’re doing here.”

“We have 100 years worth of data, not millions of years that the world’s been around,” Myers continued.

Dr. Jay Lehr, an expert on environmental policy, told “Lou Dobbs Tonight” viewers you can detect subtle patterns over recorded history, but that dates back to the 13th Century.

“If we go back really, in recorded human history, in the 13th Century, we were probably 7 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than we are now and it was a very prosperous time for mankind,” Lehr said. “If go back to the Revolutionary War 300 years ago, it was very, very cold. We’ve been warming out of that cold spell from the Revolutionary War period and now we’re back into a cooling cycle.”

Lehr suggested the earth is presently entering a cooling cycle – a result of nature, not man.

“The last 10 years have been quite cool,” Lehr continued. “And right now, I think we’re going into cooling rather than warming and that should be a much greater concern for humankind. But, all we can do is adapt. It is the sun that does it, not man.”

Lehr is a senior fellow and science director of The Heartland Institute, an organization that will be holding the 2009 International Conference on Climate Change in New York March 8-10.

[Puget Sound]

Ah, the fallacy of saving the hypothesis.
Logic and Climate.

From the American Thinker

common sense isn't so common

[Nevets]

So true Puts. Have you been listening to the libs lately. I can imagine back in the 70's that Joanie and Sparky were probably freaking out that an ice age was coming. And when the oil shortages of the time started happening they protested that the oil companies were not doing enough to get the oil on the market so they can keep themselves warm in the coming Ice Age. Now today they are doing the opposite. Where will the insanity stop. I get the feeling all they want to do is complain.

[rozskat]

Nice cheerleading articles Putz. Heartland Institute, as you say follow the money, CNN television meteorologists not climatologists, oceanographers or biologists and then a conservative/libertarian blog with a philosopher quoting a friend from MIT.

As I ask you again Putz…and your point is?

[sparky]

Oh my lord..Puts, you are actually going to attempt to argue climate change with someone who works in the field??? Facts vs. Innuendo??

This should be good!

[Puget Sound]

First off, I appreciate that you go out and help collect data/process it and all.

I agree and most everyone agrees that the Climate Changes.
(But Climate Change is a safer term than Global Warming...why'd they back off of that term?)
Bethatasitmay:
But what do you do about Climate Change?
How reliable is the data used to document the recent warming trend?
How much of the modern warming is natural, and how much is likely the result of human activities?
How reliable are the computer models used to forecast future climate conditions?
And -the million dollar question- is reducing emissions the best or only response to possible climate change?
Help me out with these questions and I will be indebted to you.
My understanding of the scientific method is that one should be a skeptic.
And that being a professional skeptic is indeed part of being a good scientists. Some scientists that wish to question the impact of man upon climate change are now being called 'climate change denier' with all the holocaust connotations of that word and with the clear implication that you should be quiet. I find that very disturbing. Al Gore's protests to the contrary that the Science is Settled on Global Warming. Doesn't that disturb you as a scientist?
Clearly we are having climate change. The climate is always changing. But with the lack of accurate historical records and only relatively recent (last hundred or so years) of accurate data to use I am curious as to how the accuracy of the models relied upon. (I would be happy if they could forecast the weather 4 days from now with greater accuracy let alone long range forecasts for Global Warming trends years from now. Don't get suckered in by models. They are only as good as the assumptions upon which they are built.
I have personally watched/reviewed models in the financial fields and the same propellor heads (the smart phd types that design/run these things) that were so sure about how things would go proved to be woefully inadequate in the face of a market meltdown.

Curious, what is your opinion of the efficacy of the carbon offset program?

[Nevets]

"I have personally watched/reviewed models in the financial fields and the same propellor heads (the smart phd types that design/run these things) that were so sure about how things would go proved to be woefully inadequate in the face of a market meltdown."

Puts, would that be akin to Senators Franks and Dodd saying Fannie mae and Freddie mac were sound and needed no oversight.

As for Roz, he is no Scientist. He has said so before. He wants to be one. I am sure he has a strong background in the Marine Science Field but still am not sold that he is retired military. Let alone married to either a Black African or Polynesian Asian woman. Sorry Roz, just my observation of your posts.

[joanie]

Sparky, sputs is a parroter, not an arguer nor debater. Without google and his right-wing press, he's out of ideas. Just a mass of gassy blasts.

[joanie]

Steven, he never said he was a scientist. He said he talks to scientists and works with them. "In the field" is in the field with scientists and researchers. You show your ignorance...and your racism.

You are pitiful. You and sputs deserve each other.

[Coiler]

A black african.....?

[Nevets]

"he is no Scientist"

And this shows your ignorance Joanie. Read.

[Nevets]

Coiler, you have heard of the countries of South Africa and Egypt. But I was wrong. Roz said Black Immigrant. My bad.

[joanie]

You're right. You said that. So, given his work with scientists, why don't you credit him for his first-hand knowledge and experience gained working with them?

[Nevets]

"strong background in the Marine Science Field"

Isn't that giving the man credit for what he does. Maybe you have a different definition for strong in this case. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a paper published with some of the stuff he has been talking about. Not that he has sold me on Gorebal Warming being man-made mind you. But anyone who can go through BOT has got to have something upstairs. If not, I'm sure NOAA would have sent him packing.

[joanie]

So you have a high opinion of Roz and his expertise.

I have to hand it to you, Steven. You're not as pitiful as puts. Guess that's why I give you a kind word now and then.

He's interesting to read, isn't he? And he makes me long for the life of a mariner. Sounds very romantic. Especially his Gauguin reference. To travel to all those exotic places. What humdrum lives we lead. Even those of us with Rolls in the garages and two or three weeks to go visiting exotic places every now and then. Just typical tourists.

Roz sounds like a free spirit.