take your answer off the air...

  • HorsesAss.Org: the straight poop on WA politics & the press
    progressive brilliance from the guy who pointed out Tim Eyman's nascent horse's-assedness
  • Talker's Magazine
    The quirky talk radio trade mag. Check the Talk Radio Research Project- it's not very scientific, but places on the top 15 talkers list (scroll down to Talk Radio Audiences By Size)) are as hotly contested as Emmys (and mean just about as much).
  • The Advocate
    No, not THAT Advocate... it's the Northwest Progressive Institute's Official Blog.
  • Media Matters
    Documentation of right-wing media in video, audio and text.
  • Orcinus
    home of David Neiwert, freelance investigative journalist and author who writes extensively about far-right hate groups
  • Hominid Views
    "People, politics, science, and whatnot" Darryl is a statistician who fights imperialism with empiricism, gives good links and wry commentary.
  • Jesus' General
    An 11 on the Manly Scale of Absolute Gender, a 12 on the Heavenly Scale of the 10 Commandments and a 6 on the earthly scale of the Immaculately Groomed.
  • Howie in Seattle
    Howie Martin is the Abe Linkin' of progressive Seattle.
  • Streaming Radio Guide
    Hellishly long (5795!) list of radio streaming, steaming on the Internets.
  • The Naked Loon
    News satire -- The Onion in the Seattle petunia patch.
  • Irrational Public Radio
    "informs, challenges, soothes and/or berates, and does so with a pleasing vocal cadence and unmatched enunciation. When you listen to IPR, integrity washes over you like lava, with the pleasing familiarity of a medium-roast coffee and a sensible muffin."
  • The Maddow Blog
    Here's the hyper-interactive La Raych of MSNBC. daily show-vids, freakishly geeky research, and classy graphics.
  • Northwest Broadcasters
    The AM, FM, TV and digital broadcasters of Northwest Washington, USA and Southwest British Columbia, Canada. From Kelso, WA to the northern tip of Vancouver Island, BC - call letters, formats, slogans, networks, technical data, and transmitter maps. Plus "recent" news.
  • News Corpse
    The Internet's chronicle of media decay.
  • The Moderate Voice
    The voice of reason in the age of Obama, and the politics of the far-middle.
  • News Hounds
    Dogged dogging of Fox News by a team who seems to watch every minute of the cable channel so you don't have to.
  • HistoryLink
    Fun to read and free encyclopedia of Washington State history. Founded by the late Walt Crowley, it's an indispensable tool and entertainment source for history wonks and surfers alike.

right-wing blogs we like

  • The Reagan Wing
    Hearin lies the real heart of Washington State Republicans. Doug Parris runs this red-meat social conservative group site which bars no holds when it comes to saying who they are and who they're not; what they believe and what they don't; who their friends are and where the rest of the Republicans can go. Well-written, and flaming.
  • Orbusmax
    inexhaustible Drudgery of NW conservative news
  • The Radio Equalizer
    prolific former Seattle KVI, KIRO talk host speaks authoritatively about radio.
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« KVI "circling the drain" | Main | It's snowing out, apparently »

December 19, 2008



" Sounds like a guy who saw an opportunity to make a good living by sitting on his ass."

I suppose they dont let you sit too much at WalMart, eh?


asking for the arrest of the idiot Bush is not hate, it is love, love of country.


Well, at least you listened. That's the best I can do. If you don't understand or care to listen to people who have the knowledge and expertise to explain it, then you are doomed to believe what you believe.

I hope you listened to the entire segment. Perhaps some of it penetrated and will work it's way from your brain stem to the frontal lobe of your cerebrum. If it does, you will then be a smarter Walmart greeter than you are now.

BTW, do they make you wear a Santa hat and hand out candy canes to kids? I think it would be nice if you did.


Just for the record, what does same-sex marriage have to do with anything?

Puget Sound

looks like your posse is in full gallop on this mysterious death.

Tin Foil Hat Time


Two words: Vince Foster.


All I have to do is mention Bush+Crime and Putsie gets more active than Gordon Gecko watching his stock tank.

Puget Sound

ouch Coils, i'm down over a $100 k at this point...

Vince Foster for sure sparks, they got the tin foil types on both sides.
911 truthers, LBJ behind the JFK Assassination, et al.
nutters of all stripes enjoy a good conspiracy.

just a present for the faithful Coils. i thought it was mighty nice of me to give Coils something to think about over the holidays.
On Christmas morn is it Santa downstairs or maybe -just maybe- Karl Rove sneaking around your 'files' there Coils?


Revenge Joanie. Thats a good motivator to go after a person doncha think.

No Sparky they dont. And Joanie, I refrain from giving out candy and treats although I have been told it is ok. My reason is I dont know the kids medical situations and would not want to set of a alergic reaction.


Okay, Steven. This is on point precisely. You're usually a good sport about listening so why not listen to a fellow soldier who will elucidate the gitmo/terrorist question:

12/18 Hour 2 Scott Dick

It is worth it. He's not a Constitutional lawyer and you seemed to respect his point of view last time you listened.

He just said "since when is it a war crime to be on the battlefield? Since when is that a war crime? How is that terrorism?

The discussion is much broader than that and much more sophisticated. Nothing is so simple as you and puts wish to make it.

After you listen, I'd like to hear your thoughts.


I would listen to it Joanie but dont know which podcast to click on. But I remember this guy. Isn't he the one who has has a wine coniseour radio show?

But if you didn't read a previous post that I put on another thread for you to answer, I'll post it again and then you can tell me if this Scott Dick is talking about those I describe.

Here it is.

Lets see Joanie, a person is captured after a fierce gun battle with US troops in Afghanistan. No uniform. Not a citizen of Afghanistan. Shouting anti-US slurs. Threatening to blow the soldiers up. Hmmm. What would you call that guy.

Posted by: Nevets | December 18, 2008 at 10:49 PM


Click on 12/18 hr 2 scott dick

If the screen came up correctly, it is organized into dates and hours and even lists the guests.

Peter B Collins 12/18/08 H2
Scott Dick on Military/Vet issues: are cuts ahead for troops? Does the Iraq exit plan differ from the Obama plan?

click on listen

I'll answer your question after you listen because they discuss that point better than I can and with more expertise.

If you disagree with Dick that's fine.


Joanie, I think it is the Libs misinterpretation of those unlawful combantants being tried at GITMO are for actual "War Crimes" and that is just ridiculous. I might be wrong. But googling "war Crimes" the first thing you get is "GITMO". Most are from Lib leaning blogs or short News stories where the only mention of the words are in the title. If you google "War Crime Tribunals", you get Nuremberg, Bosnia, Saddam, and not until page 5 will you get a "GITMO reference. To me the later were actual "War Crimes" trials where those being tried at GITMO are being tried for terrorist acts against the US and its Allies. These are Unlawful Combatants mind you. Not POWs. A big difference. A little reading of the Geneva Convention will clear that up for ya.

What Scott Dick is doing is just twisting words to keep spreading that old line of "fear Bush". I'm surprised you are not tired of that stuff. Tell the truth, I almost didn't listen after the first words from Peter B was "Criminal Cheney". Again the "fear" factor from the libs.


Then you really don't know, do you? Your words or Scott Dick's words? I'll have to take his because he has more current and precise knowledge of Iraq and Gitmo.

I'm sorry you couldn't listen. I would truly have liked to read your understanding of Dick's analysis.

Accusing someone of twisting words when you haven't listened to them doesn't sound like you. You're pretty careful to catch anyone doing that to you.

Puget Sound

sounds like nevets is giving you much more consideration than you give him.

seriously, you can't be surprised when people don't respond to your questions when you don't respond to them.

'hoisted by your own petard' is the phrase that comes to mind. or if you want to go old wives tale you can use 'you reap what you sow'

stop asking others to do what you are unwilling to do. a nice thought to carry into 2009.

Puget Sound

nice article on Mika Brezinski of Morning Joe by CNN's Howard Kurtz. Interesting side story on how it was Joe Scarborough (hated on this blog for making Maddow look a little ass-hat) fought to get Mika the gig in the first place as his co-host.

Morning Joe


"I almost didn't listen after the first words"

See Puts, its that speed reading of hers again. Joanie I said "almost didn't" but I did listen to it and that is what I got out of what he said about the detainees at GITMO. He said they are being tried for "War Crimes". And I ask, is that true or just an exaggeration by the libs. If they were being tried for "War Crimes" I would imagine they would be tried in an International Court like at the Nuremburg Tribunals. Did you read the Geneva Convention. Or will you wait for Randi to explain it to you in detail as to how it makes President Bush look like a criminal.

And Joanie, what "current and precise knowledge" would Scott Dicks have access to if he is busy going around tasting wine for a living. Does he read blogs like Daily Kos and Huffpo more than the average Lib who hates Presidnet Bush. He has just as much access to the internet than you and me.


Here is the Geneva Convention that relates to POWs. Check article 4 and tell me if them detainees in GITMO fall under it. Remember, POWs, not unlawful combatants.

And tell me how the "Rule of law" is being destroyed. If what Greenwald says is true, and the rule of law doesn't exist anymore, wouldn't these five have been sent to GITMO for trial.

Puget Sound

Maybe if you would throw in 'impeach Bush' or 'war criminal Cheney' in every third sentence Joanie might actually read what you wrote. Sadly, I fear she would just fixate on those words and never get past it.
But you spell it out and she still can't put it together.

And now you're asking her to do some analysis? Good luck.


You're right, steven. I did miss that "almost."

So, you're off the hook. Dicks has a higher rank, more recently in the field, often talks about being in the information loop with his officer buddies, and obviously has an elevated IQ. That's probably why he's on the radio and you're wrking at Walmart. He provides specifics rather than generalities. Those are the reasons I listen to him and respect him.

And you'll recall that he very specifically asked since when is being on a battlefield a war crime?

You don't really get much out of listening to others' opinions, do you. Funny you could respond to so many interesting angles that he gives but you always devolve into the same mess of thinking that you start out with. I think that must be sputs' influence. He's good at circle talk too.

joanie for Roz and Steven

I've got another for you. I think that both of you'll enjoy this one. It is about multiple trips to Antarctica and later an interview with the master of the Sea Shepherd.

"Peter B Collins 12/17/08 H2
Dick Kay in Chicago has a Blago update. Sea Shepherd Capt. Paul Watson live from Antarctica; Sebastian Copeland photojournalist for "Antarctica, The Global Warning"

You'll have to click on the middle of the bar to miss Dick Kay who talks about the Illinois governor. He's interesting, too. Talks about the internal Illinois politics. Sounds like he thinks the gov is kind of an amusing guy.

Roz, I know you'd be interested in the comments of this photojournalist. His observations on the Antarctic remind me of yours on your adventures.


Paul Watson. Modern day pirate. I'll give it a listen. But have you caught any of the "Whale Wars" on Animal Planet? If so, what did you think of it.

Like I said, are they being tried for "War Crimes". I am sure if they are Scott Dick would be talking about all the petty crimes they are being charged with. For instance crimes against humanity like Genocide. Thats a "war Crimes" right. Do you agree? Assisting Osama Bin Laden getting around a cave isn't one but those actions should be enough to be charged with aiding and abetting a fugitive. So instead of taking the word of Scott Dick where you have no idea where he gets his information. Ask yourself that question. Do a little research. Do a little (like you always say) critical thinking.


Joanie, in that clip you linked Scott Dick and Peter B both critized Cheney for his harsher interrogation remark which Scott calls torture. In the link below you will see what I am talking about. POWs vs Unlawful Combatants.

And by the way, are you not curious as why no country has asked for these detainees to be freed. Or the reluctance of the detainees Country to take them back.

"The treatment of an enemy soldier who is captured fighting against our troops on the battlefield must differ from our interrogation of a Jihadist found trying to obtain radioactive material for a planned radiation bombing of a U.S. city. In the first case, the information extracted is not critical to national security. The second scenario is a threat against all Americans."

Puget Sound

C'mon Joanie
You ask Nevets for answers, how come you won't extend to him the same courtesy?


If Bush pardons Cheney, we'll have our answer.


They are being tried for war crimes? I thought they were being held without charges. Which is why so many have been released.

And Steven, even in the second scenario, why shouldn't you have to prove your case?

And a lot of countries aren't taking them because they've been through years of torture and nobody knows what condition mentally or emotionally they are in. And, as you say, some may be terrorists. The problem is, we don't know which ones, if any. That's why they should have been charged and tried. How can you disagree with that?

Finally Dick said that many of them were turned in for bounty. There's no proof that they were guilty.

Why didn't you include that specific in your analysis?

And your quote/llink says Jihadists. You don't know whether they are jihadists or not. You just know they got turned in or captured. You don't know the circumstances. Apparently you don't care.

That's the point. That is unAmerican and illegal. That's like disappearing people in the old Soviet Union. We're supposed to be better than that.

How can you not undertand this?

If they are guilty, try them and prove it. What do you have to lose?

Puget Sound, STFU. Nobody's talking to you.


The rule of law says you charge people and give them due process. They are releasing so many people from Gitmo partly because they didn't do that. They just kept them "disappeared" for years.

Greenwalk specifically mentioned Padilla who is an American citizen born on American soil who was denied his rights. You mght want to listen to that part again.

That's what is meant by the rule of law.

Regarding the five conspirators, a court deliberated and they were acquitted. I'm wondering if that isn't the case where there was some entrapment as well Do you know? Do you think you know better than the Court in which they were tried?

If they hadn't had the opportunity to defend themselves, who knows what would have happened. Is that what you want? Vigilante justice?

One case where justice prevailed doesn't change the fact that for a lot of others it hasn't. Doesn't that make sense to you?

Again, these are people captured on the battlefield or turned in by informants who were often paid. I can only repeat what Dicks said because I'm no expert. He said that doesn't prove they are terrorists.

But, I bet a lot of them will be now.

Puget Sound

ahhh Joanie, that isn't like you to be so rude.
although it is tempting to use alcohol to keep you warm it actually serves to reduce your body temp.
(kind of like listening to Randi reduces your IQ)
so go easy on the sauce, granny.

Coils, hows that investigation a going? Have you factored in the Palins yet?


And finally, did you listen to the two guests talking about whaling and the Antarctic?

They did discuss Whaling Wars a bit. Apparently it is helping to fund the Sea Shepherd. Watson wants another boat. If I heard correctly, Animal Planet might help him get one. He says the Sea Shepherd has cut down mightily on the illegal Japaese whaling and one more boat might just do it.

I hope you'll tell me if you listen. Notice the title of the photojournalist's book is Global WarNing and not Global WarMing. He was very interesting but I don't think you'll agree with everything he has to say. I'll be curious to read.

Whether you agree or not, it is an interesting set of interviews.

And Steven, thanks for listening even if we don't agree.


Yes, sputs, we always know when you're out scanning the radar for attention. That's when the gassy blasts and stupid defaults to puerile name-calling begin..


One more thing, Steven: what about Coiler's comment about Cheney and torture. Do we torture or don't we? Do we have several lower-ranked kids in jail for torturing? If they are there why shouldn't Cheney be there, too?

Chuck from Tacoma

How can you compare the great care the prisoners at Guantonamo recieve with the old Soviet Union. There are no annonymous prisoners in Cuba. All have been identified and their home countries have been notified. All have been visited by The International Red Cross.
Only three of them have been "water boarded" and none have been tortured.
Every last one of them has gotten their prayer rugs and koran. Every one of them has gained weight. Quit accusing our guys of torture. It is not happening in Cuba.
I told you earlier this year about my nephew joining the Marine Corpes. Looks like he gets to go play in the sand box early next year. Says they are sending him to kill or capture some big tall doof at the Pakistan/Afghanistan boarder.
Anyway, I am proud of him for having the brass to enlist, and I would just as soon leave the riff raft in Cuba. That may be selfish of me, but what the heck. I love my nephew (and his passifist mother).


Now, Steven, before you rant at me, I just saw the Fort Dix story on the online NY Times. I need to read more to know all the circumstances. It says they were found guilty of conspiracy but not murder.

Doesn't that sound just?

For chucks from Wiki: "Suicide Attempts
Main article: Guantanamo suicide attempts
By 2008 there had been at least 4 suicides and hundreds of suicide attempts in Guantánamo that are in public knowledge.[36] No information is available on the number of suicides of prisoners that are classified secret, or their suicide attempts. On 10 June 2006, three detainees were found dead, who, according to the Pentagon, "killed themselves in an apparent suicide act".[37] Prison commander Rear Admiral Harry Harris claimed this was not an act of desperation, despite prisoners' pleas to the contrary, but rather "an act of asymmetric warfare committed against us".[38][39][40]
Amnesty International said the apparent suicides "are the tragic results of years of arbitrary and indefinite detention" and called the prison "an indictment" of the George W. Bush administration's human rights record.[40] Saudi Arabia's state-sponsored Saudi Human Rights group blamed the U.S. for the deaths. "There are no independent monitors at the detention camp so it is easy to pin the crime on the prisoners... it's possible they were tortured," said Mufleh al-Qahtani, the group's deputy director, in a statement to the local Al-Riyadh newspaper.[40]

Guantánamo officials have reported 41 unsuccessful suicide attempts by 25 detainees since the U.S. began taking prisoners to the base in January 2002."

Sounds like a veritable vacation in paradise, doncha think?


I see no need for the Palin's involvement. They are toast anyway now that her future sister in law is a meth addict. It's going ok, I'd say.

Puget Sound

well then i am sure that President Obama will be in a hurry to close down such a place of horrors.
oh wait, maybe he won't be...(maybe he'll have to pull a 'Seattle')

"The trouble is that Guantanamo fills a useful purpose. When the United States started scooping up terrorists and jihadists from foreign fields after Sept. 11, 2001, it faced a conundrum. Treating them as ordinary prisoners of war was not on. To begin with, they weren't. They wore no uniform and usually fought for no country. PoW status would have prevented their captors from interrogating them, robbing Washington of potentially life-saving information about terrorist networks and future attacks.

Treating them as ordinary criminals seemed wrong, too. That would have meant bringing them back to the U.S. for trial, exposing judges and juries to danger and affording them all the rights of a U.S. defendant accused of robbing a corner store.

Seven years later, Mr. Obama faces just these problems as he puzzles over how to close Guantanamo. His campaign advisers talked about a "try or release" policy. After reviewing the files on the remaining detainees, Washington would release the small fry and send them to their home countries for prosecution or resettlement. The hard cases would go to federal court for trial.

But releasing the small fry is harder than it sounds. Washington cannot legally send detainees to countries that might torture or prosecute them, thus ruling out quite a few places. Other countries refuse to take them back. About 60 detainees have already been approved for release or transfer but remain in Guantanamo for exactly these reasons."

Puget Sound

I was wondering how long before you played that card. I'll give you credit for holding off as long as you did.

Puget Sound


The Rule of Law always included detention without trial for wartime captives. How do you win a war if you keep releasing the other side’s fighters? This has long been held to be correct under the laws of war. Read the 2004 Hamdi case that ruled acceptable the wartime detention without trial of an American citizen combatant.

Holding combatants until the end of hostilities (such as WW2) , or at least until they can be repatriated in a way that renders them no longer a threat, is not just a Bush/Cheney deal. It has been the default state of affairs in every war ever fought by the United States.

Now that we are moving full bore into Afghanistan and maybe Pakistan with President Obama he'll have a chance to look at the issues and I'll bet he will default to protecting America.
But we'll see. I wonder if you will hold him to the same standard as you held W.
Oh by the way, no attack to date in 7 year plus years on American Soil. Let's hope Obama can match that record.


default? You mean, as in concentrating on the country that is harboring..uh...what was his name...Osama something...instead of wasting billions and billions on a country that did nothing to us???


Coiler, meth AND oxycontin..Rush's drug of choice. I would love to be at the wedding.


Oh, don't confuse him, Sparky. He's a numbers cruncher.

Go tell it to Greenwald, the real Constitutional lawyer, puget sound.

Until then, you're just more gassy blasts looking for attention.


Yeah, the mother of the groom of Sarah Palin's daughter is probably a meth-head. Bush/Cheney being tried for war crimes. That poop is big news (the last one is a regurgitated story from the progressive moonbats - just like the National Enquirer ?

Wasn't this post about Frankenfraud vs. Coleman ? Seems like MN has bungled the recount by not knowing what ballots are duplicates and knowingly having ballots counted twice, but not knowing which ones Unbelievable ! and no consistent standards have been established yet. The only reasonable solution is to have a runoff election between them, but that would be too simple and clear cut. Politics and courts will make this more convoluted than ever.

The founding fathers are rolling over in their graves at this time, noting that fair elections have been corrupted - thanks to groups like ACORN that have corrupted the system. They might as well have the outcome resolved by a duel like Hamilton vs. Burr and the winner is the one left standing - I like that better than the incredible exercise in mediocrity that is being carried out now and regardless who is left standing and any perpetrators from ACORN should be hung by the neck until dead.


So the rule of Law does exist in America. Thanks for clearing that up for me Joanie. Greenwald said it didn't. This is what Greenwald said...

"The rule of law has essentially ceased to exist"

That cant be right if those 5 were given thier due process in Federal court and not sent to GITMO. Maybe you should ask him to clarify his meaning.

As with Paddila, like I said earlier, President Bush just authorized what he thought was right as other Presidents before him have done. Do I need to give an example.

Now Joanie, isn't this what Scott Dick said...

"Show me the war crimes this guy commited"

What do you think he is trying to say in that sentence? That they are being held without charges. He is saying they are being charged with war crimes and tried as war criminals for being on the battlefield. At least that what I got from it.

Now this...

"And a lot of countries aren't taking them because they've been through years of torture and nobody knows what condition mentally or emotionally they are in."

What? That has got to be the most ridiculous thing you have posted. If they have been fighting for thier country against a shared enemy that country would welcome them back with honor. Just like we did and have always done even if they were considered "war Criminals" by the country that held them. So why don't they take them back.

Oh I care alright Joanie. I care that them detainees don't get to step one foot inside this country.

Illegal whaling. Just have get on the bandwagon there huh. I think the Japanese are doing research down there. Thats what they say at least. I thought those on the "Steve Irvin" chasing the Japanese ships on "Whale Wars" were nut jobs like those code pink types we have that go around and disrupt serious meeting. This Paul Watson shouldn't be a Captain of anythingthe way he risked his crews lives to make a point that would have no effect on what they are out there doing. They are the Modern Pirates just as bad as you will find off the coast of Somalia.

As for Antartica and Gorebal Warning. That guy might have put a little damper on the whole thing for you who beleive. He said all the computer models being used for justiying Gorebal Warming are unreliable. Wasn't it Computer Models that the IPCC used to say it was real. Back to the drawing board.


Steven, I said that one case does not prove that the rule of law is still operative. If the rule of law fails to work for any person, it is missing in action. Esp. when it is missing in the highest echelons of our government. Any reasonable person would agree with that. You can be in denial if you wish.

"On the tip of Cuba at a US naval base, the facility was set up in 2002 for the interrogation and detention of terrorist suspects after the 9/11 attacks. It now holds about 265 prisoners, including 14 of "high value." It may have helped prevent any other 9/11-style attacks, but Guantánamo has cost America considerable moral standing in the war on terror and sowed seeds of doubt about its justice system.

Allegations of torture and the long-term holding of suspects without charge or trial may have inspired terrorist recruits and have hindered strategic and logistical cooperation with America's allies. Gitmo must go.

Well, Steven, you may not get your wish. Most of them have been/are being released without charges. We may have to clean up our own mess. Next time, perhaps following the justice system that was the centerpiece of our democratic republic might be advisable.

Ridiculous? I don't think so. Neither does the Christian Science Monitor.

As for the whaling, I prefer to believe the guy who's down there and quoting numbers myself. But each to his own.

Umm, same with the photojournalist. Unfortunately for you, he has first-hand experience and documentation. But, you may ignore it. It is not my place to tell you what to think. It is my intent to expose you to different points of view.

Esp. interesting ones.

You found the interviews interesting, didn't you? I thought they were riveting. I'm glad you listened. I would like to see his book. It is a coffee table kind of picture book. I bet those pictures are awesome.


Yes Joanie, you are right Sebastian Copeland does have first hand experience. How many times has he been there to the Antartica. Once, maybe twice. Here are some pictures that are in that book. I think. That one of the penguin looks like the pic that Peter B thought the penguin was stranded and was lost at sea. I got a kick out that. Antartica, Call to Action. Check out the 10 pictures.

Now what happened to this...

"Dicks has a higher rank, more recently in the field, often talks about being in the information loop with his officer buddies, and obviously has an elevated IQ."

Are you saying the Christian Monitor is more informative than Scott Dick. What does the CM have that Scott doesn't? Do you think Scott might want to check out the Christian Monitor first for now on.

I dont think Greenwald said the rule of law was missing in action for that one instance. He clearly said "cease to exist' which means to me, that he believes the rule of law is not being followed at all in the USA. Does "cease to exist" mean something different to you. Take Greenwald words as they are quit putting more into them. Remember, you are agreeing with him.

And again, would you agree other Presidents have done such a thing that President Bush did to Paddila?


He said several times. That's how he's able to compare what he sees.

How many times have you been there?

Steven, are you nit-picking?


"He said several times. That's how he's able to compare what he sees."

Ok, fine. For sake of argument lets say Mr. Copeland has been there 3 times. And I've never been there. But really, do you believe that in 3 visits one could say for sure that the Antartica is melting. Mr. Copeland would laugh you out of the building with that type of reasoning.

Puget Sound

Nevets isn't nit picking, he is using facts and logic.
Which to Joanie is 'nit picking'
Can't let facts and logic interfere with 'emotion'

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