take your answer off the air...

  • HorsesAss.Org: the straight poop on WA politics & the press
    progressive brilliance from the guy who pointed out Tim Eyman's nascent horse's-assedness
  • Talker's Magazine
    The quirky talk radio trade mag. Check the Talk Radio Research Project- it's not very scientific, but places on the top 15 talkers list (scroll down to Talk Radio Audiences By Size)) are as hotly contested as Emmys (and mean just about as much).
  • The Advocate
    No, not THAT Advocate... it's the Northwest Progressive Institute's Official Blog.
  • Media Matters
    Documentation of right-wing media in video, audio and text.
  • Orcinus
    home of David Neiwert, freelance investigative journalist and author who writes extensively about far-right hate groups
  • Hominid Views
    "People, politics, science, and whatnot" Darryl is a statistician who fights imperialism with empiricism, gives good links and wry commentary.
  • Jesus' General
    An 11 on the Manly Scale of Absolute Gender, a 12 on the Heavenly Scale of the 10 Commandments and a 6 on the earthly scale of the Immaculately Groomed.
  • Howie in Seattle
    Howie Martin is the Abe Linkin' of progressive Seattle.
  • Streaming Radio Guide
    Hellishly long (5795!) list of radio streaming, steaming on the Internets.
  • The Naked Loon
    News satire -- The Onion in the Seattle petunia patch.
  • Irrational Public Radio
    "informs, challenges, soothes and/or berates, and does so with a pleasing vocal cadence and unmatched enunciation. When you listen to IPR, integrity washes over you like lava, with the pleasing familiarity of a medium-roast coffee and a sensible muffin."
  • The Maddow Blog
    Here's the hyper-interactive La Raych of MSNBC. daily show-vids, freakishly geeky research, and classy graphics.
  • Northwest Broadcasters
    The AM, FM, TV and digital broadcasters of Northwest Washington, USA and Southwest British Columbia, Canada. From Kelso, WA to the northern tip of Vancouver Island, BC - call letters, formats, slogans, networks, technical data, and transmitter maps. Plus "recent" news.
  • News Corpse
    The Internet's chronicle of media decay.
  • The Moderate Voice
    The voice of reason in the age of Obama, and the politics of the far-middle.
  • News Hounds
    Dogged dogging of Fox News by a team who seems to watch every minute of the cable channel so you don't have to.
  • HistoryLink
    Fun to read and free encyclopedia of Washington State history. Founded by the late Walt Crowley, it's an indispensable tool and entertainment source for history wonks and surfers alike.

right-wing blogs we like

  • The Reagan Wing
    Hearin lies the real heart of Washington State Republicans. Doug Parris runs this red-meat social conservative group site which bars no holds when it comes to saying who they are and who they're not; what they believe and what they don't; who their friends are and where the rest of the Republicans can go. Well-written, and flaming.
  • Orbusmax
    inexhaustible Drudgery of NW conservative news
  • The Radio Equalizer
    prolific former Seattle KVI, KIRO talk host speaks authoritatively about radio.
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« The takeaway to KXOT | Main | Michael Savage loses in court; cleveland drops him; conservatives hate him; the nation scorns him; but he's still workin'! »

July 26, 2008



Man, living without jalapanos would be tough. I never did pay any attention to the tomato thing and I will likely do same with this.

bar code

Styrofoam police??? I knew about the plastic bag deal, but styrofoam will be banned by Seattle too? How can you stand to live in such a place?


I hate the styrofoam that comes with electronics and small appliances. Can you imagine how much space that takes in garbage dumps?

So, I sit and crumble it into much smaller pieces and mix it will the peanuts that I return to UPS for reuse.

However, now that peanuts are often made with corn products that are biodegradable, it is more of a dilemma for me. Not sure what to do with it.

I can't believe how many people stick those recyclable peanuts in the garbage. Even at school, I can be seen pulling peanuts out of the trash can to recycle. Teachers should know better.

People treat their home - Planet Earth - like a great big garbage dump. Unbelievable.


I had a meal (?) at Carls Jr out in Covington the other day. Hadn't had one of their Burgers for 30 years. Any way, I was commenting to my bride that they were the first to come with the styrofoam in the late sixty's-early seventy's. I remember the conversations about how groovy those were and wondering about how expensive they were. Anyway, our meals were served in paper products. What goes up must come down.


Now, you think that's a good thing, right chuck?


Hmmmmmm, gotta think that one through joanie. Let's see. Styrofoam that takes a zillion years (unscientific estimate on my part) and is a waste of fossil fuel (oil) or paper that I can compost in my backyard bin with grass clippings, pruning, weeding remnants etc. and use in my gardens next spring.
That is pretty easy, I like paper.
But Mayor Nickels and his idiot Council can go screw themselves in regards to their plastic bag law. It is just another revenue source that absolutely hits the poor and ignorant hardest.


Speaking of planet earth - to get the proper perspective on carbon offsets, carbon taxes and all of that big brother knows best agenda, read "Cool it" by Bjorn Lomborg, Danish Economist. A no nonsense approach that cuts through an inconvenient truth in ways that a liberal can appreciate (not sure about progressive control freaks though).

Puget Sound

KS. Check this out.
Logic, reason, and humor.

Penn and Teller:


Besides being a magician, Penn is also a Fellow at the Cato Institute.


I'm not sure but I might agree with you on that one, chuck. I don't mind paying but I'm not sure what it is going to achieve.

I think a deposit on glass bottles is a good thing because instead of throwing them on the beaches, kids will start collecting them and returning them for money. A nickle when I was kid would be what at least twenty-five or fifty cents now?

Last time I was at Birch Bay, I sat down on some logs to read. Someone had thrown a glass bottle probably from a moving vehicle and it had broken into hundreds of shards. Little kids play in that area routinely.

Of course, I picked every shard up I could. That was more than a week ago. This last week I was down at the same log and time had unearthed more shards. I got another sack full of point, lethal shards of bottle glass.

If you put a stiff deposit on bottles, they become precious. The deposit gets returned when the bottle is returned. I don't think kids or adults would be tossing bottles worth fifty cents or more out the window of a moving vehicle. At least most people wouldn't do that. There would still be the odd occurrence. I don't know why we don't do that.


KS, I've heard Lonborg talk about the book several times. I might be interested in his perspective. He was quizzed and he doesn't really disagree at all. . . just a different way of talking the talk.

So, have you read the book?


chucks, stores offer cloth bags for about 99cents..that is pretty affordable for everyone since you keep reusing them. Plastic bags take oil to make, too, just like styrofoam. Some stores offer some money off if you keep using the cloth bags.
Growing up in Oregon, collecting bottles from the side of the road, or saving all the bottles and cans at home was the lifeblood of extra spending money for us kids.


Thanks Sparky. I do use a cloth bag. ..when I remember to take it in the store with me! Which is much more often than it used to be.

Works better than a paper bag, too.

I still want to know what the 20 cents is for.

One thing I'll miss is having plastic bags for my cat litter! Does anybody use the flushable kind? Is it environmentally really ok?


As in Kids, you are talking teen years right Sparky. Like buying beer and refer and such.


Yes, I read his book last week. I'd like to see the charts, graphs and backup information that he used to arrive at his numbers. Apparently, his book the "Skeptical Environmentalist" has the charts, graphs, etc.

You agree even though it pokes holes in most of Gore, et.al's cherry-picked information to create hysteria, but he does in a respectful way in an Inconvenient Truth ? He does agree that we need to do something and now, but the approach involves way more Research & Development up front to economically justify actions before moving on, which sounds like a sensible approach.

Seattle's charge on plastic bags is neutral - cloth bags that can be reused numerous times is better in the long run for landfills and mama Earth. I'd like to see plastic bottles done away with - as Lomborg agrees with and no more Evian seen on the store shelves.


No steven
When we were kids, we paid deposits on pop bottles. 5 cents per bottle. Heck, when I was a kid and wanted something bad enough, I would go door to door begging up bottles. Would pick them up along the side of the road. Work hard enough, you could come up with a couple of hundred bottles. Big money in 1959.
That is when I learned the value of hard work. The harder you worked, the more $ you got.


Anyone want to go cheesing????


Well, KS, you've come a long way from the naysayer that you used to be. All Gore wants to do is what Kennedy did when he issued the challenge to go to the moon.

That's the difference between over achievers and underachievers. Overcheavers actually end up achieving something while underachievers do the least they can.

I work with teachers like that. When they write their goals for the classroom they always target what they know they can do. Like 90% of 28 kids will be reading on grade level by yaddy yaddy yada.

I always set as my goal 100%... and if I fail it is not for lack of trying. I'm willing to set high goals and fail.

That's what Americans used to do. We have become lazy and stupid.


I am still a naysayer about Gore's agenda. He offers a lot of politically correct rhetoric about attaining that goal - that is not attainable without an increase in nuclear power, which he does not call for.

He's a hypocrite living his lifestyle and not walking his talk. Why is he afraid to debate others and still stand by his so-called facts in an Inconvenient Truth even though they have been proven wrong ? (google it instead of asking to what facts I am referring). I have always agreed with a well-researched and sensible economic approach when it comes to being good stewards of this planet.


You sound like an envious person, KS. Is that the problem on the right? Are you guys just envious of the intellect on the left?

Al Gore has been smart his whole life. He was very instrumental in the frontier of the internet but you guys turned the context around to try to make it sound like he said he "invented it."

As for googling your argument? Do it yourself. If you've got an argument to make, make it. Don't dance around it like you know what you're talking about.

There were some small inaccuracies. Seems like there always are in everything.

But, the bottom line is that you guys are all just envious of the intellect on the left. You can't stand it.

Do you have any idea how ignorant that kind of thinking sounds? A bunch of little boys comparing peepees.


Thats funny Sparky, Oregon didn't start putting deposits on their bottles til 1971. And guess what, they were the first State to do so.


The Bottle Bill made it a requirement. We were turning in bottles wayyyy before that. In fact, turning in bottles goes back to the 30's. 5 returned bottles, at 2 cents apiece, was enough to buy a candy bar.


I'm sorry Sparky, that should have been to chucks. I thought it was you responding to my question. So chucks, still funny though, I've heard of deposits on milk bottles prior to 71' but not PoP or Beer. Care to explain.


It was in 1957 that pop started being sold in aluminum cans as well as bottles. All I know is that in the 50's and 60's we would search all over to find bottles AND cans so we could turn them in and buy stuff. And that was anywhere in the state, so we got an early start to recycling.


"care to explain"

Interesting how differently you talk to your bro on this blog than you do to Sparky or me. If chucks said it, maybe he's ... right.

No sexism here...


I do not believe that it was ever a law to recycle pop bottles with forced deposits by the nanny gummint. It was an old concept, free market capitalism. The soda bottlers would take back the old bottles, clean, refill and resell them. It was cheaper to wash and reuse than to use new bottles. Same with milk bottles.
The Coca Cola, Nesbitt etc bottlers were never environmentalist, just (evil)capitalist doing that which was best for the bottom line. Grocery stores never liked having to collect and return deposits or process the empty bottles. Messy, time consuming and attracted bugs (ants).


And those 1957 era pop cans did not have "pop tops", you had to use a church key to get it open.


Interesting. Learn something new everyday. Thanks Chucks and Sparky.


" You sound like an envious person, KS."

Just because I disagree with your cherry picked hypotheses ? You sound like you are being defensive.

"Is that the problem on the right? Are you guys just envious of the intellect on the left? "

There is something to be envious of, it is that leftists are more skilled liars (is that' what you mean by the intellect of the left ?) and how the mainstream media often covers for them.

"Al Gore has been smart his whole life. He was very instrumental in the frontier of the internet but you guys turned the context around to try to make it sound like he said he "invented it."

FYI - Al Gore did not do very well in college and exactly how was he instrumental in the frontier of the internet ?? The right tried to make a joke of the fact that he verbally misstated once that he was instrumental in the internet. Where did you get your facts ? Mr. Gore was born with a sliver spoon in his mouth, like some other politicians I know of. I give him some credit for bringing the environment to the forefront. However, it's funny that he did not do much of anything about
it when he was Vice President though.

"As for googling your argument? Do it yourself. If you've got an argument to make, make it. Don't dance around it like you know what you're talking about."

No dancing around here - I stand by what I said.
I wrote that because you have a habit of asking what arguments was I referring to or to give an example and I was giving you a heads-up in case you asked that question in an attempt to further convolute the discussion.

"There were some small inaccuracies. Seems like there always are in everything."

Small inaccuracies ?? I'll take one; There is a significant difference between sea levels being projected to rise up to 20 feet in 50 years (Gore - An Inconvenient Truth) and 1.5 feet over the next 100 years (Lomborg - "Cool It").

Re: Gore's challenge to America for the next 10 years..Neither Gore nor journalists reporting on his challenge even mention nuclear power. Does Gore want to replace our nuclear power plants, too? If so, then we would have to replace about 90 percent(!) of our generating capacity in ten years. If he doesn't want to replace them, then he should explain to us why he does not mention expanding nuclear power as as part of the solution to global warming.

"But, the bottom line is that you guys are all just envious of the intellect on the left. You can't stand it."

There is intellect in the center, which is where I have been roosting and even on the right - T Boone Pickens is on the right. Too bad the so-called intellects on the left have that tendency to be intellectually dishonest in the name of scoring political points. That kind of stuff tends to detract.

The rest of the Joanie's quote was potty-mouthed and therefore omitted.

In closing, I don't like the record deficit announced today more than anyone else - that's a reflection of financial mismanagement of Bush, but the Democrat controlled- congress are also a significant part of that.

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    • KIRO 710ESPN Seattle 710 KHz
      Games and sports-blabber
    • KIROFM 97.3
      Multi-format: news and nearly all local talk. This is where classic KIRO AM news talk radio went... hopefully, not to die. The home of Dave Ross & Luke Burbank, Dori Monson, Ron & Don, Frank Shiers, Bill Radke, Linda Thomas, Tony Miner and George Noory.
    • KUOW FM 94.9
      Seattle's foremost public radio news and talk.
    • KVI am 570 KHz
      Visit the burnt-out husk of one of the seminal right-wing talkers in all the land. Here's where once trilled the reactionary tones of Rush Limbaugh, John Carlson, Kirby Wilbur, Mike Siegel, Peter Weissbach, Floyd Brown, Dinky Donkey, and Bryan Suits. Now it's Top 40 hits from the '60's & '70's aimed at that diminishing crowd who still remembers them and can still hear.
    • KTTH am 770 KHz
      Right wing home of local, and a whole bunch of syndicated righties such as Glennn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Medved, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Lars Larsony, and for an hour a day: live & local David Boze.
    • KPTK am 1090 KHz
      Syndicated liberal talk. Stephanie Miller, Thom Hartmann, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, Norman Goldman fill in the large hole to the left on Northwest radio dial.
    • KLFE AM 1590 kHz
      Syndicated right-wing 2nd stringers like Mark Levin, Bill Bennett, Mike Gallagher, Dennis Prager, Dennis Miller and Hugh Hewitt inhabit this timid-voiced neighbor honker for your radio enjoyment (unless you're behind something large like Costco).
    • KOMOAM
      News, traffic, Ken Schram and John Carlson.
    • Washington State Radio Stations
      Comprehensive list of every danged AM & FM station on the dial.
    • KKOL am 1300 KHz
      Once a rabid right-wing talker, except for Lou Dobbs, it's all business....