John McCain and President Bush have defined leaving Iraq as losing, does that mean we can never leave?
"When conditions got worse, we had to stay to make them get better. When they got better, we had to stay so they wouldn't get worse. The American and the Iraqi people are on to this hustle." ~~ Chris Hayes on Countdown with Keith Olbermann
Congressman Dennis Kucinich this Friday will present his single article of impeachment concerning the Bush administration’s deliberate and unconstitutional lies that led us to war in Iraq
Posted by: coiler | July 23, 2008 at 02:17 PM
Hopey changey boy is such a moron. You would think that he would give credit and thanks to our troops for their success in Iraq. No, he can't do it. In his dishonest little mind, it is all the tribes.
That man is dangerous and a risk to our nation and our security.
Posted by: chucks | July 23, 2008 at 02:27 PM
Aw come on get over it; Bush is history. Let's see how fast POTUS Obama gets us out and how safe he keeps this Country for the next 8 (he says 10) years. Onward! ...AND, let's just see what happens in Afghanistan.
Posted by: Duffman | July 23, 2008 at 02:32 PM
Bush is history. It is not history that is the concern. It is our future.
It is Barry Obambam. People are going to have big time buyers remorse. He offers nothing. BO has zero accomplishments in his time on this planet. Nothing. He is just a creation of Geo Soros. Just another elitist Chicago politician that is using you to get what he wants.
Can any body think of anything substantial that that man has done to qualify to be Commander and Chief of the worlds greatest military and POTUS, leader of the free world?
Posted by: chucks | July 23, 2008 at 03:02 PM
chuck chuck chuck. You have to start listening to someone other than Hammity!!
I listened to THREE speeches Obama made yesterday and in each one he thanked the troops for all they have done. Have you seen the pictures of the crowds of soldiers who gathered around him to shake his hand and have their pictures taken with him? Did you hear the giant BOOBOO McCain made about the timeline of the Awakening and the "Surge"?
Did you know that McCain asked Obama to co-sponsor legislation on immigration? Since you are a strong supporter of the troops, are you aware that McCain has voted against all the Senate legislation that would increase benefits and education? Come, on chuck! You are not a dumb guy. Don't fall for this attempt from the right to make him less than he is.
Posted by: sparky | July 23, 2008 at 03:45 PM
Sparky
I suppose while listening to Obambam, you heard him (twice) telling the Israelis how he understood the threat to them from Iraq.
With McCain, you always have to look a what pork is attached to a bill to understand why he may have voted against it.
Posted by: chuck | July 23, 2008 at 04:02 PM
Just think- McCain is older than even the commenters on Blatherwatch!
Posted by: Bernbaum | July 23, 2008 at 04:22 PM
Why is it Chucks, when the discussion of why are we still there the same old loyalty oath of ' respectin the troops' and "he is dangerous" always comes up with you guys? You know the old story patriotism being the last refuge of a scoundrel?
Posted by: Coiler | July 23, 2008 at 04:54 PM
This is not the Mariners. A loss against the terrorists has meaning. To have victory in Iraq within grasp and to quit fighting and turn tail and run is dangerous. To give the enemy anything at this point in time is self defeating.
Where in the past two years have I said anything about patriotism?
Barry Obambam is dangerous. I do not expect you to agree with me. Just open your eyes. This guy is an empty suit. Buying into this guy is like buying a used car without a test drive or having an independant mechanic do an inspection. A very dumb risk. A lot of faith in the used car salesman that may bite all of us in the ass.
Posted by: chuck | July 23, 2008 at 05:10 PM
within grasp....thats what was said last time before the 'surge' then we we're told a decision would be made based on the results after the surge. Now after all the books have been cooked, no one in this administration has a timeline, just conditions that are arbitrary and vague. Even the Mariners fire under performing managers. The Iraqis don't want us there--who and what is there to win over?
Posted by: coiler for Obama | July 23, 2008 at 05:23 PM
Spot on Chucks.
Poor Coiler, Gotta suck to be in a position in which its bad for politics that the Surge worked.
I love Harold Ford, Dem of TN on Morning Joe.
He's a good man. The Dems need more Harold Fords.
Wishing Ford was the Dem Nominee
Posted by: Pugetsound | July 23, 2008 at 06:25 PM
Bush promised in a news conference that we would leave just as soon as the Iraqi government asked us to. Well, now they have asked us to. If the surge was so successful, then we should be able to leave according to the timetable that Obama suggested and Maliki agreed with. I bet we can also stop paying the insurgents not to attack us. Since it was successful.
Posted by: sparky | July 23, 2008 at 06:45 PM
Poor Putzie, you really haven't said how the surge has worked, just that we're still there with the big ole Bullseye every day. B'lam must be laughing every night at you fools.
Posted by: Coiler | July 23, 2008 at 06:45 PM
Too bad the left doesn't know what they are talking about here, especially Olber-dork. McCain actually said that the door is open for getting out of Iraq if conditions on the ground warrant, which is what Gen. Petraus said and BHO subsequently blew off before and after they met. Whoever gets elected President will be cleaning up "Bush's War".
What's up with this Nobama ? Claiming he was on the banking committee and that passed some legislation and he clearly was not. I haven't checked YouTube for this quote, but it should be used against him. He is like Kerry in that when asked about something, like Kerry, he says check my website, or it was in my speech on March 27, etc.
But, back to the war, we are winning in Iraq and hope that conditions in field relayed by the commanders warrant us deploying a majority of the troops out of there in the next year. Obama's endorsement of an additional 50K troops in Afghanistan is a red flag. Yes, we need more troops there, but this needs to be strategically thought out before proceeding. Pakistan is the real lynchpin for Afghanistan and that is a touchy proposition.
Posted by: KS | July 23, 2008 at 06:50 PM
"Needs to be strategically thought out....." Like the last 5 years in Iraq? Let's keep Gen Betrayus there burning the cookies so we have to eat them makes a whole lotta fuckin' sense.
Posted by: Coiler | July 23, 2008 at 07:02 PM
If you can objectively listen to your candidate, Nobama and see that he is generally clueless without a teleprompter when asked the few tough questions he is asked and have found his answers to be downright scary. Why do you think he scares the bejeezus out of many of us with his vast experience as a community organizer in trying to make nice with the Islamofascist rogue nations in the unstable middle East ?
He has no plan and responses to the news media, like refer to my speech in South Carolina about meeting with the Iran president or check my website may work for being a used car salesman. OMG ! There is way too much at stake to take someone like that seriously as a viable candidate for POTUS.
Posted by: KS | July 23, 2008 at 07:03 PM
Fact check: Correction - Gen. Petraeus has only been commander over the last year and a half.
Posted by: KS | July 23, 2008 at 07:04 PM
Mark Halperin stated the following in a commencement speech at Hillsdale College this year (from Time Magazine):
"Electorates rightly favor those who have endured combat, not as a matter of reward for service, as is commonly believed, but because
the willingness of a soldier to give his life is a strong sign of his correct priorities, and that in the future he will truly understand that statesmen
are not rulers but servants. "
Posted by: KS | July 23, 2008 at 07:11 PM
I guess Bob Dole screwed up those odds. People are more savvy than what Mark is used to saying at college campuses. The Iraqis and the american public both know what has been promised and what has been delivered.
Posted by: Coiler | July 23, 2008 at 07:27 PM
KS warns us that Obama is "trying to make nice with the Islamofascist rogue nations in the unstable middle East?"
And yet last week Bush authorized William Burns, a high-level State Department official, to attend talks with Tehran’s representatives on the Iranian nuclear question.
"....Obama’s position has long been that troops should be withdrawn expeditiously but with care, and that the US military should shift its emphasis towards Afghanistan and Pakistan. And, lo and behold, last week we were also told that Bush was considering accelerating the exit of Iraq troops to beef up the Afghan mission. For good measure, McCain also gave a speech backing what he calls a "surge" in Afghanistan, with more troops and a counterinsurgency strategy in the style of General David Petraeus, the commander of US forces."
Posted by: sparky | July 23, 2008 at 07:45 PM
Sparky
Lets be a little honest here. Obama has had a variety of positions depending upon the political situation. But Obama was the one with a timetable such as 16 months.
McCain supported the Surge when few thought it was a good idea.
And 'Coiler', the General 'Betrayus' is pure talk befitting of a 'maroon.' You know what a 'maroon' is don't ya?
Posted by: Puget Sound | July 23, 2008 at 08:04 PM
The only comment I have is that Bush has been changing tactics himself. William Burns had actually been in secret talks with Iraq since early this year, but it was publicly revealed just last week. Maybe its better that the news media did not know about it, seeing that the talks seem to be progressing. I have heard that the talks have been about halting the development of nuclear weapons and Iran feeding the Iraq war.
BHO's strategy is an entirely different issue and Jimmy Carter (who Nobama reminds me alot of) is the last person I'd want to see having talks with a rogue nation.
Posted by: KS | July 23, 2008 at 08:38 PM
I agree! It would be much more fun to have McSame sitting at the table and then breaking into song:
"BombBombBomb-BombBomb Iran"
Posted by: sparky | July 23, 2008 at 08:59 PM
You know Coiler, for the longest time I thought that you, beyond your smart ass comments, had a fully functional brain. Hell, I still believe that I am at the very least fractionally right.
To this day, I do not understand your belief that we should announce our war plans, including the world famous dimocrat talking point, exit strategy to our enemy.
Do you not see how that can benefit the enemy in its planning?
Gawd, I am glad that you are not in charge of my, or any one else's safety.
Posted by: chuck | July 23, 2008 at 09:02 PM
Both McCain and Bush support the surge--get it correct Putz. That will be Mc Same's undoing.
Posted by: Coiler | July 23, 2008 at 09:04 PM
Sparky
Do you suppose that McCain may cause Arramadamadingdong more concern than Mr Hopey-changey?
To use street vernacular, Who do you suppose has more street cred?
Me thinks McCain will cost our Iranian foe many a good nights sleep.
Posted by: chuck | July 23, 2008 at 09:11 PM
Oh Boy, he we go with the 'benefiting the enemy' crap. Did you know that Geraldo announced on a FOX news cast US troop locations on the air?
Hey chucks, go sell some 'fuel efficient" rv's or something, hell, even throw in some flag decals to be more fuckin patriotic than the other RV dealers out there and get back to us on how high gas prices along side a unpopular occupation is working out for you guys!
Posted by: Coiler | July 23, 2008 at 09:13 PM
Can't go sell some rv's coiler. Got my ass layed off last week.
You poor lost boy. Me, I have the rest of the summer off. At least I have off until my wife nags me in to getting another job.
And Geraldo is a leftist idiot. He, like you does not understand how to win. Keep you head buried up your ass for as long as you can. Just leave our security to the adults. Mmmk?
Posted by: chuck | July 23, 2008 at 09:36 PM
chucks, Im sorry you lost your job. I hope you find something you like real quick!
"VoteVets has a new ad featuring Brandon Woods, an Iraq War veteran from New York.
In the ad, Brandon says, "What did we fight for in Iraq? I have some idea. I fought in Operation Iraqi Freedom. And "freedom" means when the Iraqi people and their Prime Minister ask us to make a plan to leave, we do. But, Senator McCain would occupy Iraq indefinitely, against their wishes. That's not what freedom means. That's not what we fought for. Senator, I thought you would know better."
Here's VoteVets' statement releasing the ad:
Senator McCain once said that if the Iraqis asked us to leave, we would have to leave. Those of us who served agree with that. Senator McCain now either has to back off his refusal to set a plan to leave Iraq, as Prime Minister Maliki requested a number of times in the past week, or tell the American and Iraqi people why he would overrule Iraq's government and turn our troops into an indefinite occupying force. Those are his only two options. Our new ad makes that clear.
The American people, the Iraqi people, the Iraqi government all think it's time for us to leave. So what does "winning" mean now, Mr. McCain?"
The ad can be seen at VoteVets.org
Posted by: sparky | July 23, 2008 at 10:27 PM
The Germans, Italians, Koreans, and Japanese must be fuming because of our occupying forces there. Does Hussein want to bring them home to. I havn't heard anything about them forces that have been in those countries since the 40's and 50's. And why does Hussein want to send 50,000 more troops to Afghanistan? Does he want the option if elected to invade Pakistan? Hmmmm.
And Sparky, why not look up why McCain did not support the new GI Bill. What McCain wanted if you dare look it up, was to provide the coverage to more veterans.
And is it starting to look like
Hussein Obama = Bush.
Talking now about keeping the troops in Iraq as the situation warrants.
Taking a stand that Iran should not be allowed to possess Atomic Weapons and that the world must ensure they do not acquire same WMD's.
Posted by: nevets | July 23, 2008 at 11:21 PM
"Obama would rather lose a war than lose a campaign."
This is the slogan that spells the end of Hussein Obama historic run for the presidency. Now where is Hillary?
Posted by: nevets | July 23, 2008 at 11:35 PM
You really do have problems with reading comprehension, don't you, Steven? What did the soldiers on VoteVet.org say about McGramp's comment? What are the pudits saying about his comment? Not one of them thinks that McCain was not over the top on that comment about Obama wanting to win the Presidency more than he wanted to win the war. You don't have to take my word for it..go to VetVotes.org and read what the soldiers think of McCain.
And McCain did not want to expand the GI Bill to include others. He said he was opposed to it because too many soldiers would stay in the service only long enough to qualify for the benefits and then they would leave. He wanted to find some "alternative."
And now you are saying that Obama is sounding like Bush? You have that backwards. It has only been since Obama got the backing of Maliki that Bush was pissed off and embarrassed enough to try to make it sound like he was going to withdraw all along. Didn't Bush say just a few weeks ago that Obama was guilty of appeasement for even suggesting that we TALK to our enemies, yet now we learn about a US envoy at the table on nuclear talks with Iran, and he is being pressured to sit down with Syria.
The news in your universe is certainly interesting!
Posted by: sparky | July 24, 2008 at 10:34 AM
I, for one am ready for POTUS Obama to accomplish the following:
a. Get us out of Iraq
b. Solve the economy dilemma
c. Get OBL and solve Afghanistan
d. Protect the safety of this Country for the next 8 years from outside attack.
e. Solve the energy problem
f. Clarify and deal with Global Warming.
and...finally and most importantly (in my view)
g. Follow-up on his promise to institute a workable and equitable Universal Health Care Plan.
I will anxiously be awaiting his efforts in these regards.
Posted by: Duffman | July 24, 2008 at 10:44 AM
WOW! POTUS Obama can make a speech and awaken the world; whereas Sen McCain sometimes seems un-awake himself when speaking. It's sad and I actually feel somewhat sorry for him - as he has given much, but timing and opponent are just too big a task.
Posted by: Duffman | July 24, 2008 at 11:50 AM
Chucks
Sorry to hear about the lay off. Well now you can see how it is to be a teacher with the summer off...
Don't mind Coils, he can't hit much above the ankle on a good day.
Posted by: Puget Sound | July 24, 2008 at 05:33 PM
Wow! chuck(s), I missed the post on your lay-off. Sorry to hear that, man...hang in there. You're one sharp cookie with obvious 'character'; I wish you the best in any endeavor.
Posted by: Duffman | July 24, 2008 at 06:26 PM
...and did recoil ever recoil after his vomit....Hell no; THAT's character for you.
Posted by: Duffman | July 24, 2008 at 06:51 PM
Yeah right Sparky.
Hussein Obama = Bush
Look at his speech in Berlin today. I could swear that he took bits and pieces of President Bush's state of the union speeches and put it in there.
I also remember that when some Conservatives were comparing rebuilding Iraq to the "Marshall Plan" the Libs freaked out. Times have changed. Hussein Obama has become Son of Bush.
And how do you compare Terrorist running planes into buildings to Boston motorists going to work. Completely lost me there.
Posted by: nevets | July 24, 2008 at 07:13 PM
Obama's delivery was good as predictable from a teleprompter. His goal was to emulate JFK with some Ronald Reagan thrown in and sound as if he was president. However, the substance was not even comparable to either one of them. Bill Clinton similarly gave flowery speeches, but did not really say much. From the text of the speech, it was found that he said "This is the moment" 16 different times during this 30 minute speech. McCain quipped that he would give a speech in Berlin after he was elected President..
The press neglected to mentioned that there was a popular rock concert leading up to the speech, where 150,000 + attended. Back in early June, when he spoke in Portland in front of 72,000 +/- there was also a well-attended rock concert beforehand. Also sorry to hear about your layoff - Chuck(s). Godspeed.
Posted by: KS | July 24, 2008 at 08:41 PM
Obama = Son of Bush - ROFLMAO !!!
Posted by: KS | July 24, 2008 at 08:43 PM
The intelligence level of this blog drops off at night. Why is that?
Posted by: Bob and Ray | July 24, 2008 at 10:26 PM
So, like most rock concerts, you're saying the other act was just as good? Maybe better. People didn't walk out? Must be saying something good about our boy Ob. bout'time
Posted by: Coiler | July 24, 2008 at 10:58 PM