take your answer off the air...

  • HorsesAss.Org: the straight poop on WA politics & the press
    progressive brilliance from the guy who pointed out Tim Eyman's nascent horse's-assedness
  • Talker's Magazine
    The quirky talk radio trade mag. Check the Talk Radio Research Project- it's not very scientific, but places on the top 15 talkers list (scroll down to Talk Radio Audiences By Size)) are as hotly contested as Emmys (and mean just about as much).
  • The Advocate
    No, not THAT Advocate... it's the Northwest Progressive Institute's Official Blog.
  • Media Matters
    Documentation of right-wing media in video, audio and text.
  • Orcinus
    home of David Neiwert, freelance investigative journalist and author who writes extensively about far-right hate groups
  • Hominid Views
    "People, politics, science, and whatnot" Darryl is a statistician who fights imperialism with empiricism, gives good links and wry commentary.
  • Jesus' General
    An 11 on the Manly Scale of Absolute Gender, a 12 on the Heavenly Scale of the 10 Commandments and a 6 on the earthly scale of the Immaculately Groomed.
  • Howie in Seattle
    Howie Martin is the Abe Linkin' of progressive Seattle.
  • Streaming Radio Guide
    Hellishly long (5795!) list of radio streaming, steaming on the Internets.
  • The Naked Loon
    News satire -- The Onion in the Seattle petunia patch.
  • Irrational Public Radio
    "informs, challenges, soothes and/or berates, and does so with a pleasing vocal cadence and unmatched enunciation. When you listen to IPR, integrity washes over you like lava, with the pleasing familiarity of a medium-roast coffee and a sensible muffin."
  • The Maddow Blog
    Here's the hyper-interactive La Raych of MSNBC. daily show-vids, freakishly geeky research, and classy graphics.
  • Northwest Broadcasters
    The AM, FM, TV and digital broadcasters of Northwest Washington, USA and Southwest British Columbia, Canada. From Kelso, WA to the northern tip of Vancouver Island, BC - call letters, formats, slogans, networks, technical data, and transmitter maps. Plus "recent" news.
  • News Corpse
    The Internet's chronicle of media decay.
  • The Moderate Voice
    The voice of reason in the age of Obama, and the politics of the far-middle.
  • News Hounds
    Dogged dogging of Fox News by a team who seems to watch every minute of the cable channel so you don't have to.
  • HistoryLink
    Fun to read and free encyclopedia of Washington State history. Founded by the late Walt Crowley, it's an indispensable tool and entertainment source for history wonks and surfers alike.

right-wing blogs we like

  • The Reagan Wing
    Hearin lies the real heart of Washington State Republicans. Doug Parris runs this red-meat social conservative group site which bars no holds when it comes to saying who they are and who they're not; what they believe and what they don't; who their friends are and where the rest of the Republicans can go. Well-written, and flaming.
  • Orbusmax
    inexhaustible Drudgery of NW conservative news
  • The Radio Equalizer
    prolific former Seattle KVI, KIRO talk host speaks authoritatively about radio.
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« Court strikes down janet jackson wardrobe malfunction fine | Main | Laura ingraham: "don't come in my ear!" »

July 21, 2008

Comments

sparky

Did he think that there are no conservative parents of autistic kids?

nevets

Here is what I sent to those sponsors.

Dear Michael Savage Sponsor or Supporter:
We have learned that your company sponsors or supports Michael Savage's radio program.

On a recent program, he did not attack children with autism, only those that were frauulantly diagnosed. Please do not pay attention to those idiot liberals and their hate for the man.

Gay Gary

I hate to be the bad guy on this one but I have to agree with Michael Savage, though I find him entirely un-listenable.

Liberal diagnosis of all types of mental ailments is a big money maker for Big Pharma. Specific to autism, the entire concept of chelation therapy reads like something out of a bad sci-fi novel and, in 30 years, will be viewed as about enlightened as applying leeches to drain bad blood. If I'm not mistaken the pseudo-medical psycho death doctors at NIMH are still trying to restart a chelation study on autistic children that was shut down after a control group of rats went nuts. And it's usually the parents pushing these quick-fix chemical solutions - parents who can't be inconvenienced by the more arduous - yet more ethical - non-chemical therapies.


There are a lot of dedicated and courageous parents of autistic children out there but, regrettably, they are not representative of the typical parent of an autistic child. Most parents of children who are gifted with different states of perception (whether "autism", "schizophrenia", "depression", etc.) are adults who wanted a human pet or a fuck trophy, not a child that requires intense care.

Duffman

That may certainly be the case, but you don't make an outrageous statement like that about such a sensitive subject. It can be discussed and debated in a rational manner, but this guy (strictly for entertainment purposes) stretches it to the extreme. Since I never listen to him I would obviously never miss him.

Gay Gary

To be on the right side for personal gain is still better than being on the wrong side.


In the pecking order of morality Michael Savage is obviously no angel but he's several rungs above the slime who drug their children.
These "parents" deserve a whole lot worse than some hurt feelings. But, in this charged environment, even child abusers are defensible if it helps score political points or destroy one's ideological enemies.

Signs of the Times, the Reign of Quantity ...


I note, for consistency sake, I previously commented - on this blog - a scathing send-up of Norm Coleman and desire that he would lose his seat because of his fawning, slobbering support of the worst of the worse of Big Pharma, despite that I'm a gay fascist.

mac

Why won't Savage just REPLAY his remarks that were taken "out of context"??

hmmmmm

I listened to Savage on Monday July 21. I would like to know if he has yet to actually replay his comments that were "taken out of context". I did n't hear it.

If any of you call the radio show and manage to actually talk to Savage, ask him to just replay his comments to clear up this misunderstanding.

balderdash

There is no rational way to defend his ignorant comments or position. I'm shocked that any would actually defend this pig.

He is a RADIO TALK SHOW HOST. This is the social commentary equivalent of a corner busker, the snake oil peddler. You are his willing followers because you are weak and easily swayed when any compassionate human's instincts to this would be to aggresively reject such comments from an ignorant 'entertainer', because this type of hateful generalization only hurts people with serious challenges.

Just like in comeday, bad entertainers rely on smut jokes, and the easily entertained laugh.
The fact that you support him as a legitimate voice in this discussion says a lot about YOU. Here's some advice: READ A BOOK. Sharpen up the old iq, eh?

His only power is the mic in front of his mouth - hopefully it's gone from there soon. Too bad he has you in his grasp. THAT is the real tragedy of this episode.

sparky

Do any of you who are so sure autism is "overdiagnosed" actually KNOW of a family that has done this? Do you even know any child who is autistic? Do you know what it is like to communicate with a child who is so withdrawn they can't even acknowledge your presence? During the school year I work with autistic children EVERY DAY. Autism from across the entire spectrum from Asbergers to those children who are severely withdrawn. Someone close to me has a sister with Asbergers. The son of one my cousins has severe autism. When I lived in Oregon, I volunteered with autistic kids, taking them swimming. Come sit in the endless after school meetings with me to hear Special Ed teachers and program directors, doctors reps, and parents meet to try to figure out what will work for their kid, none of which involves a drug of any kind.

As I sit here and read your "opinions" on what autism is and means to families who have to live with it every day, I find myself not surprised that, as usual, you pull your comments out of your asses.

Currently, there is no "drug" for autism. The only medications out there treat peripheral symptoms, such as anxiety. That doesn't mean there aren't charlatains out there who don't try to push "cures"--just Google autism and look in the right hand column of Google ads. Right now the big thing that parents are desperately hoping will work is called "chelation" --it was on the news a couple of weeks ago. The idea that heavy metals can be removed from the body, as in lead poisoning, that will "cure" them. For awhile, people thought that mercury, found in preservatives of childhood vaccinations, was the cause, but this has not been used since around 1999-2000 and yet kids still develop it.

Most medical research is beginning to point toward inflamation of the brain as possibly being one of the causes. Autopsies on autistic children and adults who died of accidents have revealed this. There is hope that a medication can be developed at some point that would lessen the symptoms in some children. The immune system also seems to be involved, which leads a lot of researchers to think that toxins in our environment might explain why there have been so many more cases of autism diagnnosed in the last couple of decades. Even then, autism is found in only about 4-5 kids per hundred, so nobody is making any money on this.

For you, and Michael Savage, to dismiss autism as some fad and can be controlled if the family "wants to" makes as much sense as telling a diabetic child to "control" their blood sugar levels, or a deaf child to buck up and try harder to hear.

Duffman

Excellent Sparky...I too can relate; had a 12 year old grandson with it. Unfortunately he didn't make it to 13. Savage is a 'savage' for this...I'd like nothing better than to 'talk to him' mano y mano. Believe me, he'd get 'my point'.

Gay Gary

There is no rational way to defend his ignorant comments or position. I'm shocked that any would actually defend this pig.


Honestly, the only thing I find shocking are people protesting that Michael Savage may have had a point but went about it the wrong way and we need to have a rational "discussion" and "debate" about child abuse.


Sorry, there's room for discussion and debate about many differences of opinion but child abuse is not one of them.

Gay Gary

Also, I'd like to point out I never said autism - or any mental "illness" - can be "controlled" and I would challenge someone to show where I (not Michael Savage) suggested that.


I've been very pointed in my criticism of all kinds of "correction" for different states of perception. There are many autistics (the brilliant Dr. Temple Grandin to name one off the top of my head) who also support neurodiversity. What is telling is that those of us inclined to this line of thought - support for neurodiversity - are not treated to the same "rational debate and/or discussion" the many hysterical women are demanding but are shouted down and called names by said hysterical women. "Debate and/or discussion" apparently means shut up and listen to what we have to say.

Duffman

Talk about 'putting words in someone's mouth' - you need to get a frickin clue. I won't even dignify the rest of your BS.

Gay Gary

I'm sorry you choose to feel that way, Duffman.

Duffman

I don't 'choose' to feel any specific way...but I know this. In our situation we had many and discussion and debate about different treatments and I attribute those to part reason we had my grandson for the glorious years we did. I'm sorry - this topic hits too close to home for me and I probably shouldn't even be chiming in. No offense meant to you GG.

Gay Gary

We all choose our feelings but that's neither here nor there. No offense was taken at all. It's obviously a very serious topic with very serious impacts and outcomes for everyone involved. Like I said previously, I think a large minority of parents of autistic children - and I don't doubt you fall into that category - are truly doing the best they can under less than manageable circumstances.


I have only two issues I previously noted: (1) the use of chelation therapy on any child, (2) correction as opposed to integration when it comes to neuroatypicality.


In my opinion, either of those tactics amount to child abuse and need to be addressed in the harshest terms possible, with no room for the niceities that can otherwise be afforded different opinions among different people.

sparky

GG, sorry you think I am hysterical. I would think that you of all people would avoid stereotypes. Just what is your experience with the "typical" parent of an autistic child? Neurodiversity is a word that has been around since autistic people started putting sites on the internet. It has since been expanded to include not just people who are known as "autistics and cousins", but to express the idea that a diversity of ways of human thinking is a good thing, and dyslexic, autistic, ADHD, dyspraxic and tourettes people to name but a few all have some element in common not being neurotypical in the way our brains work. I know there are Aspies out there who live normal lives, and they do deserve to have acceptance and tolerance. I know of no agency or doctor or group who wants to force treatment on anyone. Stigmas are not acceptable, on that I agree with you. But that should not mean that those families who DO want help should not be able to get it. We are talking about little kids here.

And, GG, this thread is about how Savage and some of the others on here ( I will take you out of that group because you obviously have information behind your posts) want to go the other route and pretend that there is no such thing. (KS's determination that 40% are fake.)

Gay Gary

Sparky - I apologize I wasn't referring to you when I said "hysterical women", I didn't even know you were a woman.

But that should not mean that those families who DO want help should not be able to get it. We are talking about little kids here.


In the arena of drug intervention in "mental illness" I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

sparky

GG I think chelation is horrible..I am not an advocate of that at all. I feel sorry for parents who are so desperate that they will grasp at any straw.

Acceptance is very important and we work on that every day, all day at school. But if there is a way to help a kid learn, do we stand back and say, "oh well, that is just the way he is, so there is no point in trying to help." Is it fair to cheat a kid out of an education because he or she doesn't learn in the same way? Or do you find ways to help that kid..and I am not talking about drugging kids in any way.

And, this is why the simplification of the comments on this issue make me so angry. This is so far from being "fake".

sparky

No, I dont advocate drugs at ALL. At school we look at nutrition, designing lessons that make learning a little easier, seating placement in the classroom, buddy-learning, etc.
My anger is at those who think autism, ADD, etc are "made up". In my 32 years of teaching, I can give you dozens of examples where these diagnosis are "spot on" as people here like to say. I have only encountered a handful of parents who push for diagnosis or drugs as the easy way out. Most want to avoid medicating their kids. In all my years of teaching, I have referred exactly 4 kids for possible ADD or ADHD or Austim investigation. I was wrong on one of them. We err on the side of caution.

Gay Gary

GG I think chelation is horrible..I am not an advocate of that at all. I feel sorry for parents who are so desperate that they will grasp at any straw.


Most certainly - how I read Savage's comments, when he said "cartel of doctors and drug companies" - was as an indictment of those pushing chelation therapy, and those accepting it. But I think his comments were not exceptionally clear and could be read either way. There are some great activist organizations out there for parents of autistic children and some not so great ones underwritten and financed by big pharma front groups and NIMHs doctors of death. I suspect most of the public reaction is originating from the latter.


And, this is why the simplification of the comments on this issue make me so angry. This is so far from being "fake".


I'm 100% with you on that!

sparky

Ok!..High five and peace out.

Gay Gary

Hugs and kisses everyone! Hugs, not drugs!

chucks

OK. I have zero experience with autism and autistic children and never listen to Savage for more than three or for minutes at any one time. So what I really want to know is this. Has GG and Sparky come to an agreement that Savage was not out of line in his comments. Maybe his heart was in the right place and that he may have just said it wrong? Was it a cut up piece of tape that did not tell the whole story?
That you both care (as does Duffy) is obvious by you passion and knowledge of the subject.
It is so rare that two people with differing opinions can discuss something around here without name calling and come to such an agreeable end.
The whole thing was kind of groovy.

Gay Gary

I think there was disagreement as to Savage's intent. Gay Gary (me) thought he intended one thing which supported position "X" and D&S thought he intended another thing which opposed position "X", but the three of us all support position "X", though for different reasons.


I could represent this as a differential calculus equation but I don't know how to translate the symbols into HTML for purposes of a blog comment.

Charles Hodges

I would like to emphatically state RadioShack was not and is not a sponsor of the Michael Savage radio show.  In fact, our agreement with the radio stations airing his show specifically excludes his program (along with several others) as one on which our commercials may appear.

Any ads that may have run on the July 16 broadcast of this show were in direct violation of our advertising contract with these radio stations.  The stations have admitted their mistake to us and apologized for the confusion they have created.

We will continue to investigate all local stations that air Michael Savage to ensure any unauthorized RadioShack ads airing during this program are accounted for and that this does not happen again in the future.

sparky

thank you Mr. Hodges..I will forward your comments to other blogs where I know sponsorship is a concern.

sparky

tanks, chucks..I thought it was groovy too. GG and I disagree on the intent of Savage. I don't think he puts any thought into what he says as long as it gets a reaction. I dont really care what The Big Weiner says, I was angry at the throw away comments posted here.

How is your dad?

chucks

Dad is doing great. Thanks for asking. He has been home for about a month now. One of his motivations for getting well was a family get together that we had this past week-end. He had all of his kids, grands and greatgrands plus one gg grand in his face all wek-end. He loved it.
I have to admit that I was shocked to see that you could be close to my age, having taught over 30 years. You look so much younger on the innernet :-)

sparky

yeah all the boys tell me that..

Duffman

why don't you two get a room. [smile]

Gay Gary

Posted by:Charles Hodges | July 22, 2008 at 01:20 PM


OK, I hate to cause ill-will in a pleasant thread but is this serious or did I miss the punchline to a joke? Does RadioShack really post company position statements to blogs?

sparky

Corporations are beginning to understand that the blogoshpere is not to be messed with. There are numerous blogs who are posting email addresses and phone numbers of sponsors of Savage's show ( just the the conservative ones post Keith Olbermann's email) so a caveat is probably in his best interest.

Gay Gary

Well being responsive to the blogosphere is one thing but for the corporate communications director of a major (well, it's RadioShack, so I use the term "major" lightly) company to come to a Seattle talk radio blog to post his company's position statement is a little silly (which is not a slight on this blog, just RadioShack). I think RadioShack needs to hire a PR agency, or a new one if they already have one.


Boycotts are silly and I can't recall one instance where a significant one worked but many instances of boycotts coming and going, being called and dissipating, being organized and then fading into obscurity. The fact is 90% of Americans are too fat and too stupid to respond to a boycott and the remaining 10% lose interest or forget after a few weeks as soon as the newest shiny bauble is flashed before their eyes.

sparky

I tend to agree, but I do remember a huge outcry to the Sinclair broadcasting company and they did cave...and apparently there are others that have caved to the pressure over Weiner. I can't remember what the Sinclair thing was about. I am old, like chuck!

KS

Gay Gary has it right. The truth does not always come out in a agreeable way - sometimes it comes out in an offensive way.

In this day and age where authority is disdained by many to the expense of the direction our society is going (latest poll shows ~80% believe our country is headed in the wrong direction). There needs to be a further investigation on this injustice that basically abuses children for quest of the almighty $.

nevets

I think we need to get Ron of Rum and Dum fired for using the racial term RENIG. Oh, I forget, he is liberal and libs can use them type of words. Awkward.

FREMONT

Great debate, guys! The remaining mystery is: Is Sparkyt male or female?

Belatedlty adding my 's my two cents, I think chelation therapy is a legitimate topic of NIMH research. It's my understanding that NIH/NIMH launched a three-pronged autism research project in 2006. One study defined the biological and behavioral aspects, one study tested an antibiotic treatmnent and one tested chelation therapy. If you have any knowledge of the progress of this researh, GaGa or Sparks, lemme know. Controlled studies are the best way to test the efficacy of any treatment (chelation included.) You can't disagree, GaGa, that science is the appropriate method of inquiry into the anecdotal stories of Sparkler's parent group and other "hysterical women" (though the results can be sabotaged byt your fave, PhatPharma.) It's worthy of research.

sparky

Fremont, there was a story on CBS news which has been taken down but I found a cached page...I will email it to you. I work at the classroom end of things, and I have not been involved in any conversations about drugging kids with autism..we talk about classroom environment, and "504" designation, which allows the kid to get special help with learning. I only heard about chelation from our Spec Ed teacher and she was NOT complimentary. She said it is quackery, and kids have died of cardiac arrest from the treatment.
I havent heard of the research you cite, but I would be interested to know more. The CBS story talks about parents pressuring researchers to look into it, and how some parents are not waiting for the results, but are insisting they get the treatment now.
I deal more with parents who want to drug their kids during the school year, but on holidays and summer vacation, they dont give them the drugs, for whatever reason, and the kid ends up really screwed up. I have seen meds help AND hurt kids with ADHD and ADD, so, as with everything, it depends on the kid. Meds can hurt people, but they can also help.

sparky

Fremont, there was a story on CBS news which has been taken down but I found a cached page...I will email it to you. I work at the classroom end of things, and I have not been involved in any conversations about drugging kids with autism..we talk about classroom environment, and "504" designation, which allows the kid to get special help with learning. I only heard about chelation from our Spec Ed teacher and she was NOT complimentary. She said it is quackery, and kids have died of cardiac arrest from the treatment.
I havent heard of the research you cite, but I would be interested to know more. The CBS story talks about parents pressuring researchers to look into it, and how some parents are not waiting for the results, but are insisting they get the treatment now.
I deal more with parents who want to drug their kids during the school year, but on holidays and summer vacation, they dont give them the drugs, for whatever reason, and the kid ends up really screwed up. I have seen meds help AND hurt kids with ADHD and ADD, so, as with everything, it depends on the kid. Meds can hurt people, but they can also help.

Sarah

The Home Depot does not currently advertise on The Michael Savage Show, nor do we have any kind of sponsorship in place with the program. Again, we do not advertise with this program and any suggestion of such support is false.
Sarah, Home Depot Communications

sparky

Hey Sarah, the plants I bought at Home Depot last week died the next day. Can I get my money back?

Fremont

Try to revive them with chelation therapy, Sparkles!

Gay Gary

The Home Depot does not currently advertise on The Michael Savage Show


That seals it, I'm only shopping at Lowe's from now on then.


Why does the Home Depot tacitly support child abuse?

Gay Gary

HOME DEPOT AND HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES


A 2005 audit of Young Sun Lighting, a maker of lamps for Home Depot, found that workers in their Chinese factory received only 1-2 days off per month and worked an average of 12 hours per day in sweat shop conditions. Home Depot callously replied to the charges with a dismissive "there's no perfect factory".


Now Home Depot is essentially supporting the use of dangerous, scientifically dubious and abusive medications against autistic children and refusing to support Michael Savage, who is trying to stop it. Shame on the callous, amoral and evil employees and staff of Home Depot.


Send Home Depot a message that you oppose human rights violations, child abuse and sweat shop labor by refusing to shop there.

Fremont

Done, GaGa! I am NOT shopping there, and I hope they get the message!

sparky

Not a problem, GG. I quit going there when I learned they donate 100% to the Republican Party!

Fremont

This is for Sparklier: autism research, with oodles of gratitude. xoxo

Gay Gary

Good! Oculus Bleu will give you a "special treat" if you come to our 2nd Amendment Day fete this summer.
I've done a Google Blogs search and posted similar message calling out Home Depot's support of sweat shop labor to every other blog Sara has spammed with their pro-sweat shop labor message.

Fremont - NIMH is not a valid source for anything. They're nothing more than a government sanctioned and funded lobbyist for Big Pharma.

Gay Gary

About "Sarah" and Home Depot - "Sarah" (not her real name), who spammed this and dozens of other blogs with the Home Depot corporate line regarding Michael Savage, is a flak for Home Depot whose PR agency - Manning Selvage & Lee - has a dubious client roster that includes Takeda Pharmaceuticals and Procter & Gamble. From SourceWatch:

Following Dr. Steven Nissen's publication of a study warning that "GlaxoSmithKline's diabetes drug Avandia increased the risk of heart attacks by 43% and death from cardiovascular events by possibly 64%," he was publicly pilloried. "More than one story from ostensibly different sources" derisively referred to him as "St Steven," the "Patron Saint of Drug Safety," and "Saint Steven the Pure,". Among the Nissen attackers was FDA spokesman Douglas Arbesfeld. Arbesfeld previously worked at the PR firm Manning Selvage & Lee (MS&L), helping Glaxo and other "healthcare clients maximize internet-relations."


The internet related division of MS&L, Hass MS&L, has been hired by the Army to provide "exclusive editorial content" to military bloggers as a response to the "mainstream media's" supposed unwillingness to report any of the good news that comes out of Iraq.

balderdash

Mark Joe Levison is in reality Michael Savage(his stage name only):

From today's Seattle Times:

A South Seattle man accused of threatening to burn the home of an autistic child has been charged with malicious harassment, the state's hate-crime law. Mark Joe Levison, 48, is being held without bail in the King County Jail. Court records show he failed to appear in court for previous charges.

The night of July 8, Acquinnette Engen said she was sitting on the porch of her home in the 5500 block of South Leo Street after putting her three children to bed. She said Levison began yelling at her from his yard across the street and imitating her 13-year-old autistic son.

Engen's family had just moved in two weeks earlier, she said. Engen said Levison had previously screamed at the autistic boy when he was climbing a tree.

"I'm not dealing with you," Engen said she told Levison that night.

"Keep your ... son in the house or the backyard like a dog. If you don't I'll burn the [child's bedroom] down," Engen recalled Levison saying.

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