Grover norquist vs. goldy: the homey takes it

(photo; bored Grover, eager Kermit and David)

We mingled with Republicans tonight and came to some conclusions:

1. we miss David Goldstein on the radio
2. living in the rarified world of the liberal Seattle bubble, there's not enough real political debate in this town.
3. no wonder the right's in trouble

We went to a dinner/debate at The Steakback Outhouse on Westlake  Ave. to hear former KIRO talkhost, David Goldstein debate Grover Norquist, the conservative wunderkind who, despite being a quintessential Washington animal, would famously like government (and you, too!) to be small enough "... where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."

It was sponsored by the Evergreen Freedom Foundation, the reactionary libertarian gripe mill that prides itself on being the state's Official Pain In The Ass.

We forewent the food which was well matched with the event. (we've told you before: we don't eat in franchised steakhouses)

Goldy was passionate, the way he is -- Grover was not. The latter resorted to filibustering or anecdotes or snide, tired-sounding tropes. You could tell that Grover hasn't been excited about this stuff for decades.

(photo: the unshaven Grover in his fugue)

(Maybe Norquist was tired; or enervated after serving up all his red meat calling liberals "traitors" and "parasites" at dinner; maybe it was the booktour and he was grumpy he wasn't being paid at his usual K Street rate... His boredom tainted the steaky atmosphere, and permeated the little conference room with its framed renderings of t-bones on the hoof, and romanticized Australian aboriginals crapping in a pasture which, for the assembled washed masses, were metaphors for Goldy).

The discussion was about how large government should be. Goldy thinks government has solutions to problems that the market can't always solve. Grover does not.

Grover's all about "more liberty" and getting out of the "coercive utopian grip of welfare recipients and those who serve them." Government shouldn't be up to anything, by his lights, more than law enforcement, and national defense and handing out school vouchers to those poor Negroes the liberals have always exploited -- cruel racists that they are.

Goldy pursued Norquist with a question that he dodged and never answered except by default. It was: If you don't think the government should be involved with the health care of impoverished children, why shouldn't you then believe that it should get out of educating other people's kids entirely? After all, Goldy said, it's not mentioned in the U.S.Constitution...

Norquist would not cop to being against public education, even though his every explanation and description of his "toweringly selfish" politics (as Tom Friedman once described them) belied that. And it wasn't because the persistent Goldstein didn't give him every opportunity.

          (photo: Goldy: crapping in the pasture)

(We so wish that sick need of ours for robust debate could be fulfilled on AM talk by such as Ken & John, The Commentators (KVI m-f, 3-6p) or Ron & Don, The Air-iatiors, (KIRO m-f, 3-6p) or Dori Monson, the Contrary-ator. Michael Medved (KTTH m-f, 1-3p) can have some good rabbinical knock-downs when he hasn't picked someone far under his weight class; Dave Ross is too NPRishly earnest, as is Steve Scher, as you'd guess. Fuck agreeing to disagree).

Grover pulls no punches: he's compared the estate tax to the Holocaust; and he's also unapologetically responsible for galvanizing conservatives to support Bush's candidacy in 2000, and helping design Bush's tax-cuts for the rich.

And he's done some skeezy government trough-diving, too. He was embarrassed when investigators found e-mails between him and Jack Abramoff snickering about laundering money the lobbyist bilked from Indian tribes through Grover's organizations.

This same cash-washing scandal disgraced longtime Norquist friend and local Rabbi Daniel Lapin and his now-defunct organization Toward Tradition. Lapin has a talk show on San Francisco's KSFO (Sundays 1-4p). Neither man was charged.

(Republicans never talk about this but Norquist is married to a Muslim -- Kuwait-born Samah Alrayyes -- he refuses to comment, as he should, as to whether he's converted).

All and all -- the stink of beef and bottled steak sauce notwithstanding -- it was a great evening, and for all David Goldstein's passion and energy, the squinky little conservative audience didn't appear to hate him -- or try to drown him in a bathtub as we'd feared; But rather, they treated him like a prodigal nephew who might be redeemable.

Comments

[thehim]

The funniest thing was that even after the event, Goldy continued to explain why Norquist was being a massive hypocrite about the school voucher thing, and all the brain dead EFF folks were completely unable to grasp it. A few of them just left before the cognitive dissonance gave them a headache.

Seriously, anyone who characterizes their political philosophy as "Leave us alone", yet is less afraid of the party that's spying on its citizens and has championed the highest prison population in world history is either stupid or insane.

[howie in seattle]

Grover sounds like a real bore. I partially agree with you about "we don't eat in franchised steakhouses." I only do when somebody else (usually from out of town) is paying.

[sig]

Too bad the left is bored by people like Norquist, he is a dangerous man who has influenced the government in a big way over the years. His dangerous views are more than a little responsible for the mess in DC at the moment.

[Bud Dickman]

Christ you're just realizing that politics is boring in Seattle. Guess you've never been to Chicago, NYC or Boston where they have real politicians.

BTW, I thought this was once a radio blog?

[joanie hussein]

Real politicians or political machines?

Since I'm not in it for sport, I'll take the politics we have, thanks.

I don't think Norquist is in it for politics. He's in it for money. Isn't that the driving force behind the right?

So, was it money that brought him here? A book? What got him motivated to even come? I wonder if he expected it to be so small?

And, finally, maybe he doesn't think public education is necessary? Or maybe he thinks that as long as public education is paying people like Neil Bush to sell reading programs, it's okay for now.

If there's a dollar to be made off the public trough, I'm sure he's all for it.

Oh, and this is a media blog. At least, I think so...

[J.Hova]

norquist looks red-faced, maybe it was the Outback experience?

[nevets]

"the stink of beef"

Thats what you get for sitting around Goldy to long. No wonder KIRO got rid of him. And here I thought it was his girlish voice.

[rozskat]

A popular target of disdain from right wing Republicans is the “welfare queens.” They will use her to no end to push for tax cuts, welfare reform and strangling of safety nets. Does anyone recall the stereotypical welfare queen on food stamps putting her taxpayer subsidized groceries in a Cadillac during the Reagan years? I wonder if they were portraying this woman as African-American. So a single mother may have cheated the system out of thousands of dollars but she is not the cause of government financial chaos.

These same right wingers seem to have no qualms in having taxpayers support their fat friends through corporate welfare, especially the bloated military industrial complex whose companies would never survive in a true competitive market. These include Lockheed, Halliburton, SAIC, Northrop-Grumman, Dyncorp and the infamous Blackwater. Their web sites proclaim patriotism and defense of country. In reality they are nothing but whores who do it only for money with guaranteed profits. The outrage from the right is conveniently missing.

Several years ago Michael Medved wrote an op-ed supporting Wal-Mart. In usual conservative fashion, big is good and greed is great. He went on to say (not verbatim) that those who opposed Wal-Mart Supercenters were misguided people who didn’t believe in free market and capitalist system. As usual, Mr. Medved failed to mention low wages Wal-Mart pays, their anti-union activities, decimating of locally owned mom and pop businesses or any issues pertaining to workers or small businesses. Of course many Wal-Mart employees were found to be on publically financed Medicaid or state supported health insurance rolls. As usual outrage from the right was conveniently missing.

Government haters such as Norquist would be nowhere without the government. Much like the stupid comment Cheney made that his wealth was accumulated all in the private sector during one of his debates with Lieberman. Cheney made his wealth from taxpayer subsidized private sector. Cheney is the only man I know where you can put his picture beside Bin-Laden and makes Osama look likeable.

[nevets]

"makes Osama look likeable."

That about says it all about you Rozskat. The WTC is just an AL-Queda memorial for you to those terrorist that smashed the planes into them huh. Keep the faith Cap, and remember to bow to mecca 5 times a day.

[coiler]

I thought the WTC was a memorial to the August 2001 PDB, the one where Condi was forced to admit "binLaden determined to strike US".... I'm just saying what republicans would say if it was a few years earlier.

[joanie]

Steven, have you no shame? Rozskat posts an excellent analysis and all you can do is pounce on a throw-away Bin Laden line which, by the way, is absolutely accurate.

BTW, no response to my accusation that your whole energy argument relies on "guesses?"

Well, keep it up. It continues to reveal right-wing thinking for the sham it is.

[sparky]

What the GOP wants to ignore is that the majority of people on welfare are white. To be specific, the average welfare recipient is a white, single mother in her 30's who works part time in a minimum wage job.

[rozskat]

Steven – What the current administration did was cheapen the unfortunate events of 9/11 for their twisted political ideology. These types of terrorist activities have been going on overseas long before 9/11. After 9/11 if you recall we had the world on our side. Then Bush and the neocons used this for unilateral imperialism to spread their perverse ideology of “democracy in the Middle East” after no WMDs were found or evidence of connections between Saddam and Al Qaeda. Meanwhile on the home front, Bush and the Republicans used 9/11 to their advantage to increase the GOP majority in the House and retake the Senate. You must admit that these characters, Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld and Ashcroft along with their right wing radio and television pimps were the best marketers of fear since the Goebbels and the Nazis in 1930’s Germany in their war against Communists and Jews. Except in Republican America the fear was against Muslims and anyone who resembled an Arab and the war they were waging was the preposterous “Global War on Terror.”

I would suggest two books to read. One is the “Al Qaeda Reader” written by Bin Laden and Zawahiri. We are doing exactly what Bin Laden wishes for us to do. Also when you read this book you can separate Muslims from fanatics like Bin Laden and physically see how the Koran was twisted to his liking. Unlike the clowns on right wing radio that pits the entire group (Muslims) aligned with Al Qaeda with their bigoted “Islamo-Facist” labels while they do the same with their bible, picking and choosing statements to cater to their abhorrence. The other book, “The Osama Bin Laden I Know” is written by Peter Bergen. If you read that then you will understand my comment about Bin Laden being likeable compared to Dick Cheney.

[km]

I'm puzzled by the use of repetitive obscenities in your blog. As a person of clearly functional reasoning, it detracts from the soundness of your argument and the value of your efforts.

I can't tell for your syntax if you think Norquist should remain silent about his wife and religion or whether you think he should be responding to inquiries.

[coiler]

...from your syntax...

[RedmondDem]

Fuck yeah