take your answer off the air...

  • HorsesAss.Org: the straight poop on WA politics & the press
    progressive brilliance from the guy who pointed out Tim Eyman's nascent horse's-assedness
  • Talker's Magazine
    The quirky talk radio trade mag. Check the Talk Radio Research Project- it's not very scientific, but places on the top 15 talkers list (scroll down to Talk Radio Audiences By Size)) are as hotly contested as Emmys (and mean just about as much).
  • The Advocate
    No, not THAT Advocate... it's the Northwest Progressive Institute's Official Blog.
  • Media Matters
    Documentation of right-wing media in video, audio and text.
  • Orcinus
    home of David Neiwert, freelance investigative journalist and author who writes extensively about far-right hate groups
  • Hominid Views
    "People, politics, science, and whatnot" Darryl is a statistician who fights imperialism with empiricism, gives good links and wry commentary.
  • Jesus' General
    An 11 on the Manly Scale of Absolute Gender, a 12 on the Heavenly Scale of the 10 Commandments and a 6 on the earthly scale of the Immaculately Groomed.
  • Howie in Seattle
    Howie Martin is the Abe Linkin' of progressive Seattle.
  • Streaming Radio Guide
    Hellishly long (5795!) list of radio streaming, steaming on the Internets.
  • The Naked Loon
    News satire -- The Onion in the Seattle petunia patch.
  • Irrational Public Radio
    "informs, challenges, soothes and/or berates, and does so with a pleasing vocal cadence and unmatched enunciation. When you listen to IPR, integrity washes over you like lava, with the pleasing familiarity of a medium-roast coffee and a sensible muffin."
  • The Maddow Blog
    Here's the hyper-interactive La Raych of MSNBC. daily show-vids, freakishly geeky research, and classy graphics.
  • Northwest Broadcasters
    The AM, FM, TV and digital broadcasters of Northwest Washington, USA and Southwest British Columbia, Canada. From Kelso, WA to the northern tip of Vancouver Island, BC - call letters, formats, slogans, networks, technical data, and transmitter maps. Plus "recent" news.
  • News Corpse
    The Internet's chronicle of media decay.
  • The Moderate Voice
    The voice of reason in the age of Obama, and the politics of the far-middle.
  • News Hounds
    Dogged dogging of Fox News by a team who seems to watch every minute of the cable channel so you don't have to.
  • HistoryLink
    Fun to read and free encyclopedia of Washington State history. Founded by the late Walt Crowley, it's an indispensable tool and entertainment source for history wonks and surfers alike.

right-wing blogs we like

  • The Reagan Wing
    Hearin lies the real heart of Washington State Republicans. Doug Parris runs this red-meat social conservative group site which bars no holds when it comes to saying who they are and who they're not; what they believe and what they don't; who their friends are and where the rest of the Republicans can go. Well-written, and flaming.
  • Orbusmax
    inexhaustible Drudgery of NW conservative news
  • The Radio Equalizer
    prolific former Seattle KVI, KIRO talk host speaks authoritatively about radio.
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« Open thread: the poobahs of talk radio- who's kissing them now? | Main | Opal: no swanson's pot pie, here! »

February 16, 2008

Comments

storsie

Rich Clark, the same Rich Clark who claimed that he was the one who got all the Saudi princes safe passages out of D.C. the day after 9/11, taking all the heat off Bush? That Rich Clark? Oh yeah, we're onto him, PugetSound. He's neck deep in it just like you, Bush, and Shark.

joanie

Interesting article on the Yellowstone bison slaughter: A Bloody Sham
The Yellowstone Bison Slaughter

By GEORGE WUERTHNER"

Just heard a discussion about it on Peter B. - KPTK.

PugetSound

So Storsie
Harold Ickies the Senior Clintonista says that the superdelegates will be deciding this, that the Obama primary wins are meaningless.
What say you?

Will this Democratic Nominie be 'selected -not elected-' The people on the right are having a laugh playing with that phrase.

justajoe

We have it on good authority from Puget that he has assured us, Richard Clark never implicated bush on 9/11 so we should leave it at that and move on even though most of us believe it was the worst intelligence nightmare in US history

joanie

I wonder how he would know? (Clark, I mean) A little like putsie's "we've been safe for 2000 days" like that means something. Seems to me that no one knows what might have happened had Bush paid attention...

No one could promise it wouldn't have happened but it is certainly possible to say "we'll never know now."

PugetSound

"When Commission member Slade Gorton asked Clarke, "Assuming that the recommendations that you made on January 25th of 2001, based on Delenda, based on Blue Sky, including aid to the Northern Alliance, which had been an agenda item at this point for two and a half years without any action, assuming that there had been more Predator reconnaissance missions, assuming that that had all been adopted say on January 26th, year 2001, is there the remotest chance that it would have prevented 9/11?" Clarke responded with a simple "No."

Look, if you want to hit Bush with some stuff there is a crapload to nail him with. I am just telling you what Clinton's Security Chief said.

Now Justajoe, so what in the heck was it that Sandy Berger found so necessary to destroy in the National Archives. The stuff dealing with the Clinton Admin...why would Sandy Berger want to go in there and destroy evidence...why?
you tell us justajoe.

PugetSound

""we've been safe for 2000 days" like that means something."

if that has no meaning for you joanie, then you need to get a clue.

storsie

Clark, rhymes with Shark.

I fear that the ultra-right is dictating the terms of this whole thing. We are going to see rumors of islam and fainting attributed to the Hillary camp, and 'selected not elected' to the Obama side.

Get a grip--all of it is coming straight down from Rove.

I'll go with whomever joanie does. I trust her.

joanie

I'm not sure if that's the worst intelligence nightmare or if that ceremonial title belongs to yellow cake from Niger.

I guess it depends on if you're counting American lives only (in the twin towers) or Iraqi lives combined with military lives.

Kind of a tough call, huh? But, both under the Decider's watch.

PugetSound

funny, the british intell still stands by the yellow cake or at least did at the time it was put in the speech. but hey, joanie why was Sandy Berger in the National Archives destroying evidence? you seem to think trivial crap is 'interesting' how about that?

PugetSound

i smell the acrid sent of the seattle skeddale about to take flight.

Pete

Joan, you say you teach gifted children, so no wonder you think merit pay is good.

What if you taught in a school that had a large number of autistic, aspergers, learning disabled kids, or kids who come and go frequently because their parents move instead of paying the rent, kids who dont get breakfast because mom is passed out drunk, or ELL kids? The ADHD kids. The abused kids. You know, the ones that few want to bother with. Not very high test scores there, and thus, those teachers who are working their asses off trying to help those kids would never get a raise. I work in a school such as this. As long as those who have never taught decide that test scores are the bellweather, I would never get a raise. Not all of us get to teach the gifted kids. Collaboration only goes so far. Who would be left to help those kids most in need?

joanie

Oh FCS, puts, let's talk about larry craig instead. He's just as relevant and a whole lot more fun.

storsie

My, we're full of questions, PugetSound. But I'm going to ask YOU a question.

Where's your buddy Shark at?

PugetSound

Spot on Pete.
There are a lot of good teachers that would not be recognized under Joanie's proposal.
I made a wiseacre remark about the priest/teacher deal but want you to know I respect good teachers.
Especially the ones that are teaching the children really in need. Gifted children need instruction, but for those struggling children it takes a real teacher.

justajoe

I don't Pugt Was the Sandy Berger incident handled by the same effectiveness as the 9/11 commission? Does it meet with your approbation?

PugetSound

what's to discuss on larry craig? he is a sick man who used his power to hurt gay people. a hypocrite of the highest order. i don't care that he is gay, but engaging in public sex in a bathroom that a young child could inadvertently be exposed is beyond contempt. the only thing worse is probably your 'lyon of the left' bernie ward.
now your turn, or will it be the skeddadle?

PugetSound

too be honest, Berger got off light. I suspect that he or Clinton probably have some good crap on the Bush's and made it clear to not push it.
why do you think BERGER was in the national archives destroying evidence related to the 911 attack during the clinton years...why? use your bean.

joanie

No! Pete! I don't think merit pay is good! You either read me too fast or I wasn't clear.


I do think merit pay - or bonus pay might be a better way to put it - for all teachers who work together to accelerate achievement in one failing school is a good idea. The whole staff or nobody. That should help you and your colleagues out and it might encourage great teachers to go into these schools and try to turn them around. Like extra pay for hazard duty but only if you get results as a collective group of educators. It takes everybody.

No one teacher ever deserves merit pay. I agree with everything you said.

John

Sandy Berger was caught with classified documents stuffed into his undershorts, in what he later said was an "honest mistake." He was fined $50,000.

joanie

Use your own bean, putsie. And talk to yourself while you're at it. I'd rather "skedaddle."

You're still an idiot.

PugetSound

honest mistake? did you read the Commission report of what he did. The WallStreet Journal paraphrases
"The committee's 60-page report makes it clear that Mr. Berger knew exactly what he was doing and knew that what he was doing was wrong. According to interviews with National Archives staff, Mr. Berger repeatedly arranged to be left alone with highly classified documents by feigning the need to make personal phone calls, and he used those moments alone with the files to stuff them in his pockets and briefcase.

One incident is particularly suggestive. By his fourth and final visit to review documents and prepare for testimony before the 9/11 Commission, the Archives staff had grown suspicious of how Mr. Berger was handling the documents, so they numbered each one he was given in pencil on the back of the document. When one of them--No. 217--was apparently removed from the files by Mr. Berger, the staff reprinted a copy and replaced it for his review. According to the report, Mr. Berger then proceeded to slip the second copy "under his portfolio also." In other words, he stole the same document twice.

This gives the lie to Mr. Berger's story that he was taking the documents for his own convenience, to assist with his preparation for testimony to the commission. If that were the whole story, one copy of document 217 would surely have been sufficient. That document was an email pertaining to a draft of the Millennium After-Action Report on the attempted bombing of Los Angeles International Airport. The episode suggests that Mr. Berger had some other motive for removing No. 217, even if he was ultimately unsuccessful in doing so. But neither his April 2005 plea agreement, nor the Congressional report, nor the report of the Archives' Inspector General shed any light on what that motive might have been.
Another telling revelation concerns Mr. Berger's access to original, uncopied and uninventoried documents from the files of former NSC antiterror official Richard Clarke, among others. At the time Mr. Berger made his misdemeanor plea agreement, we were assured by then-federal prosecutor Noel Hillman that there was no evidence that Mr. Berger destroyed or intended to destroy any original documents. That was, strictly speaking, true. But during three of Mr. Berger's four visits to the Archives in 2002 and 2003, the former National Security Adviser did have access to original documents of which no adequate inventory existed or exists.

This seems relevant, given the concern that Mr. Berger's breaches of national security might have denied evidence to history of the Clinton Administration's approach to al Qaeda and the threat of terrorism. And yet the Justice Department clearly gave the impression that there was no danger that Mr. Berger abridged the historical record. We now know that this was not true. Mr. Berger was in a position to remove documents from Mr. Clarke's files, and thanks to lax security, breaches of protocol and undue deference on the part of Archives staff, we may never know whether Mr. Berger took documents other than the five he's admitted to removing."

storsie

So when are you going to answer my question, Puget. Are you going to skedaddle on me?

PugetSound

yikes, sorry for the long post.
here is the final report. the wall street journal was actually a little scathing to the committee for letting berger off so easy.



BergerReport

PugetSound

my buddy Shark?

not to worry Storsie, I won't let him hurt you. i've told him that you do good work.

PugetSound

Hey Skeaddadler Joanie
Before you leave, how about you going over to Shark's blog and defend some of your crap positions. Those 'interesting' observations.
How about having some of your assumptions challenged a bit?
hmmmm? didn't think so. Skeddadler.

joanie

Are you laughing, John?

PugetSound

what? the bipartisan report?
joanie it's your kind of thinking that will lose the election -again- for democrats.

justajoe

Don't ya have a wife to abuse Pugt? I don see all the anger you have arguing the way you do with joanie.

PugetSound

what? the bipartisan report? what part do you find funny about this gov't committee report.
elucidate joanie. please.
joanie it's your kind of thinking that will lose the election -again- for democrats.

PugetSound

first off, you assume that gender is accurate. i have no assumption to make regarding someone who signs in as joanie.
second, i am not angry. i actually enjoy illustrating the fallacy of someone like joanie.
third, it is either this or i gotta do my taxes.

John

PugetSound, I intended the "honest mistake" part as sarcasm, though Sandy did actually say that. But thanks for the post--I didn't know some of those details.

The Clinton Model can be summed up as "who do you believe, me or your lyin' eyes."

joanie

puts, john was being sarcastic. "Honest mistake" - Berger's words.

Now go do your taxes. As I recall, it's Turbo, right? I have to do mine, also.

PugetSound

Thanks John, I appreciate what you said.

Yep Joanie, Turbotax online. Hey, now you need to get yours done. I know :) you procrastinate on that stuff. This year, try the tax software package and don't make your accountant rich. give it a shot. it is very easy/interactive now.
catch you all later.

joanie

Sorry, John, didn't know you'd posted. My Mac is working really, really slow. I'm going to take it into Progressive Tech and give it a really good enema.

SeattleJew

Michael

Well, I think you and I are about the same age and have watched the same Rovian tactics.

I see huge differences between BHO and most of the examples you cite .

First, WADR, several of the victims you mention were seen by most folks as extremists. McGovern, Dean, really were not that different from Jesse Jackson or Gene McCarthy. Obama is, by European standards, a typical American ... a conservative!

2. Barack has weapons his predecessors lacked. This is why
Clinton's tactics failed. Efforts to pin AWOL on Bush (in this case valid charges) were turned away by the Rove machine's use of the loyal Christian voters. Many of those same folks now are supporting BHO and .. leaving aside melanin, there is not that much difference between the fundies and the Black Baptists.

3. Besides the anger of the Jesus crowd, add to this mix of plitical armament, the deification of MLK. MLK has a status that is indiscriminable from sainthood. White and Black, Amrican ask "what would King do?" When that timber arises in BHO's voice, there is an aequation of BHO as a kind of second coming.

4. BHO is a NOT facing a Bush. I may be disillusioned but I do not believe John McCain will supprt Rovism.

The bottom line is that Obama has weapons that few other candidates have had. Certain kinds of attacks on him will evoke innate feelings of unamericanism. These include many of the traditional Rove tactics.

This does not mean BHO does not have weak spots. First there is always the worry of an Eagleton affair, some undisclosed scandal. His realtins to Kenya, for example, could be an issue.


BTW, HRC may be more vulnerable than BHO. You might notice that Edwards and BHO have ru very unRovian campaigns. HRC has existing issues, some of which have not yet been exploited. For example:

1. Her Church recenty condemned Israel.
2. Marc Penn is ... well not eligible to be the Rabbi's wife.
3. The income tax issue.
4. Bill's dubious association s SINCE leaving the Prexy ... e.g. the Vatican scandal and the Kazlhistan affair. Moreover, the Clinton's have said he will not separate himself from these activities.
5. Gender-Age issues. I have teased about these but they are all to real. An attack on gender alone would cause a backlash, but a demand for her menstrual history handled well could be very dangerous. E,g, .. I can imagine a push poll om whether she has hot flashes and whether she is on HRT.

SeattleJew

Joanie ..

I think there are real differences between BHO and HRC on issues but most of those are ata level that are too complex for use in the campaign.

I do think the differences in style that we do see in the campaign are important. HRC's management style is clearly worlds different from that of BHO. He also has a personal slef confidance, if yu will a righteousness, that could be useful in diplomacy.

Talk about marketing, Brand Barack could be a very effective tool for US propaganda..

howie in seattle`

I don't think Obama "walks on water." My preference for him is based on two things.
1. his "record"--comprised of his positions and votes as a legislator, including his success with health care and campaign finance reform.
2. his ability to "turn out" and motivate people to get involved and participate in politics.

There are many issues where I wish he had a different position. I do think is a basically an honest and authentic person who is motivated by the right things. Unlike Dori Monson.

PugetSound

Seattle Jew
I would like to add something to what you say. Obama reminds me of Reagan in this sense. Reagan could talk past the media/rival political parties and communicate directly with the people.
I sense -time will tell- that Obama will have the same ability. The ability to talk over the babble and cut through all the whitenoise to connect with the voters.
Reagan use to give the left fits when he did that.
We may see it again.

storsie

I basically agree with DT on the fainting story when he says that there could be other explanations.

A higher power probably placed those females in front of Obama, knowing that they might faint and that he would act to save them. That's all this is.

And as to why Obama reacted similarly each time, that's just him being consistent. Nothing sinister or nefarious.

JanetMorrow

>Unlike Dori Monson< Who would sell his soul, or his daughter's good reputation, for a buck--any buck.

DT

Luke Burbank had some good observations on Friday's show. He doesn't believe it's staged. He actually looked up the causes of what makes people faint, and thinks it fits in with this type of Obama speech situation. Here's what he says... That the people in front have been there the longest and are probably the most fervent believers. They probably got there a few hours early, and the politicians are usually an hour or two late, so that's a good 3-5 hours these people have been waiting. Some probably haven't eaten, had anything to drink, or gone to the bathroom in that time, because they don't want to lose their good spot. The excitement builds, then ... their messiah comes out.

So I could see how these factors, and others, could easily contribute to a person fainting.

DT

Interesting. Maybe coincidences don't just happen at Obama rallies...

On this thread, someone named Howie in Seattle used the phrase "Unlike Dori Monson" in their comment. Then a couple of hours later someone named Janet Morrow used the phrase "Unlike Dori Monson."

DT

Oh I see, she was quoting him. I courageously and honorably admit my mistake.

storsie

There is another plausible theory that I thought of. It could have been staged, but not by Obama. It could have been the Republicans. Think about it. If Obama ignores the fainting women, they could paint him as callous, self-absorbed. If he doesn't then they simply allege that he staged the whole thing.

Either way, they win. It's got Rove written all over it.

storsie

Check that...DT thought of it. It's basically just a variation on his theory that the women themselves may have orchestrated it.

Duffman

Ultimately, I think George Bush is behind the whole fainting thing. He cooked up the scheme right after executing his plan to do away with Bernie Ward. Thank goodness he'll be out of office soon and powerless...or, it could be Art Bell...or the 'greys' or 'humanoids'...obviously all the answers lie in Area 51.
UNfrickinREAL!!!

There'll be no 'feigning' on Mrs Clinton's watch. :)

DT

Andy Wappler is leaving KIRO TV. Not sure if he does little radio weather updates or not. He's getting out of the business. Will be going to PSE.

Speaking of guys named Andy, I can totally see Andy Rooney doing a piece on people who faint at Obama speeches. Seems like something he'd comment on.

Gay Gary

"Luke Burbank had some good observations on Friday's show."

I didn't read beyond this line as I assumed the message was a joke.

"1. his "record"--comprised of his positions and votes as a legislator,"

Would that be the 40% of the votes he missed?

"2. his ability to "turn out" and motivate people to get involved and participate in politics."

Is the ability to motivate a cabal of idiots anything to trumpet?

"there are many issues where I wish he had a different position."

... or, indeed, any position at all!

"I do think is a basically an honest and authentic person who is motivated by the right things."

So does the cabal of idiots.

When Oculus Bleu and I were at Man-Ray last night we saw more than a few boi's with Obama shirts on ... I felt like ripping them off! (to be fair, that was only half due to the fact they were Obama shirts --- HOTNESS!)


Tommy008

I have problems with Obama , and I'll vote for Hillary, but Monson's use of the word "cult" to describe Obama's candidacy and his supportes is out of line and a selfserving slander by the local Repug radio bigmouth. He's simply a very attractive, inspiring candidate. J.F.K. had women literally running out of their shoes as they chased his car in the motorcades during the campaign and beyond, but no one calls his candidacy a cult. devotion. RFK inspired similar hysteria and devotion from his supporters. Again- no one says cult. What's your problem, Dori? Racism? Jealousy? Both?

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    • KIRO 710ESPN Seattle 710 KHz
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      Multi-format: news and nearly all local talk. This is where classic KIRO AM news talk radio went... hopefully, not to die. The home of Dave Ross & Luke Burbank, Dori Monson, Ron & Don, Frank Shiers, Bill Radke, Linda Thomas, Tony Miner and George Noory.
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      Seattle's foremost public radio news and talk.
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      Visit the burnt-out husk of one of the seminal right-wing talkers in all the land. Here's where once trilled the reactionary tones of Rush Limbaugh, John Carlson, Kirby Wilbur, Mike Siegel, Peter Weissbach, Floyd Brown, Dinky Donkey, and Bryan Suits. Now it's Top 40 hits from the '60's & '70's aimed at that diminishing crowd who still remembers them and can still hear.
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      Right wing home of local, and a whole bunch of syndicated righties such as Glennn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Medved, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Lars Larsony, and for an hour a day: live & local David Boze.
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      Syndicated liberal talk. Stephanie Miller, Thom Hartmann, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, Norman Goldman fill in the large hole to the left on Northwest radio dial.
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      Syndicated right-wing 2nd stringers like Mark Levin, Bill Bennett, Mike Gallagher, Dennis Prager, Dennis Miller and Hugh Hewitt inhabit this timid-voiced neighbor honker for your radio enjoyment (unless you're behind something large like Costco).
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    • Washington State Radio Stations
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      Once a rabid right-wing talker, except for Lou Dobbs, it's all business....