take your answer off the air...

  • HorsesAss.Org: the straight poop on WA politics & the press
    progressive brilliance from the guy who pointed out Tim Eyman's nascent horse's-assedness
  • Talker's Magazine
    The quirky talk radio trade mag. Check the Talk Radio Research Project- it's not very scientific, but places on the top 15 talkers list (scroll down to Talk Radio Audiences By Size)) are as hotly contested as Emmys (and mean just about as much).
  • The Advocate
    No, not THAT Advocate... it's the Northwest Progressive Institute's Official Blog.
  • Media Matters
    Documentation of right-wing media in video, audio and text.
  • Orcinus
    home of David Neiwert, freelance investigative journalist and author who writes extensively about far-right hate groups
  • Hominid Views
    "People, politics, science, and whatnot" Darryl is a statistician who fights imperialism with empiricism, gives good links and wry commentary.
  • Jesus' General
    An 11 on the Manly Scale of Absolute Gender, a 12 on the Heavenly Scale of the 10 Commandments and a 6 on the earthly scale of the Immaculately Groomed.
  • Howie in Seattle
    Howie Martin is the Abe Linkin' of progressive Seattle.
  • Streaming Radio Guide
    Hellishly long (5795!) list of radio streaming, steaming on the Internets.
  • The Naked Loon
    News satire -- The Onion in the Seattle petunia patch.
  • Irrational Public Radio
    "informs, challenges, soothes and/or berates, and does so with a pleasing vocal cadence and unmatched enunciation. When you listen to IPR, integrity washes over you like lava, with the pleasing familiarity of a medium-roast coffee and a sensible muffin."
  • The Maddow Blog
    Here's the hyper-interactive La Raych of MSNBC. daily show-vids, freakishly geeky research, and classy graphics.
  • Northwest Broadcasters
    The AM, FM, TV and digital broadcasters of Northwest Washington, USA and Southwest British Columbia, Canada. From Kelso, WA to the northern tip of Vancouver Island, BC - call letters, formats, slogans, networks, technical data, and transmitter maps. Plus "recent" news.
  • News Corpse
    The Internet's chronicle of media decay.
  • The Moderate Voice
    The voice of reason in the age of Obama, and the politics of the far-middle.
  • News Hounds
    Dogged dogging of Fox News by a team who seems to watch every minute of the cable channel so you don't have to.
  • HistoryLink
    Fun to read and free encyclopedia of Washington State history. Founded by the late Walt Crowley, it's an indispensable tool and entertainment source for history wonks and surfers alike.

right-wing blogs we like

  • The Reagan Wing
    Hearin lies the real heart of Washington State Republicans. Doug Parris runs this red-meat social conservative group site which bars no holds when it comes to saying who they are and who they're not; what they believe and what they don't; who their friends are and where the rest of the Republicans can go. Well-written, and flaming.
  • Orbusmax
    inexhaustible Drudgery of NW conservative news
  • The Radio Equalizer
    prolific former Seattle KVI, KIRO talk host speaks authoritatively about radio.
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January 18, 2008

Comments

mercifurious

Fact: My sibling attends Antioch.
Those dinner convos are not to be missed.

Bla'M, you should come over some night and take notes.

sparky

The Rev was just on the news and apparently reiterated the point about the bedrooms at a Mt. Si HS (?) assembly on MLK.
A teacher and advisor asked the Rev about his thoughts on gay rights, when speaking of MLK. The Rev. exited the assembly and it ended shortly thereafter.

sparky

for what it's worth, I think the teacher used poor judgement by using a school assembly to confront him.

sparky

ok Bla'm..typepad is playing games again.

There were only a few paragraphs of your story and nothing about the Mt. Si incident in the story until I just published my last comment...so...sorry for the redundancy! But I do believe the teacher should have confronted him at the end of the assembly.

Also, sometimes it tells me my email address is invalid but when I type it again, it accepts it.

jamesb

Sparky,
Why shouldn’t the teacher have confronted “Hutch” at the assembly? Allowing a bigot to speak about bigotry without pointing out his own record of bigotry is disingenuous at best. He was a very poor choice for a speaker. I wrote to the school board members and have a response from one saying the community and students are owed an apology for his appearance.
I actually have no problem with him being allowed to speak provided his clear record of discrimination was made known to the students.

Duffman

Rev. Hutcherson is incorrect in giving Rush Limbaugh credit for Obama's success. Any success Obama has attained is by the sweat of his brow and his apparent passion to run this country. I feel he will come up a bit short tho, as Mrs Clinton's time has come. I would hope that when this becomes apparent they both 'team up' and give this country what it so desperately needs: a universal health care plan. We are the only country in the developed world that does not guarantee access to medical care as a right of citizenship, and that's just not right.

sparky

I thought about that jamesb....turns out the reason he was invited is because his daughter goes to that school. When I heard on the news that he was the speaker, my first thought was
" Holy crap." I think it was a terrible choice but knowing his daughter goes there makes it less of a surprise. I would have really supported the teacher standing up and saying that she disagreed with his viewpoints on gays, espeially in light of his remarks about freedom and inviting him to come back to the school and have a roundtable discussion about it.
I probably feel that way because I teach in an elementary school and I dont know a thing about high school culture. As elementary teachers, we think about what is best for the kids. It is undoubtedly best for those high school kids to know the truth about his views on gays. But I disagree that hijacking a school assembly is the best way to go about it. That is also the view of those kids I saw interviewed on TV. So her opportunity to inform them is lost.
Let the Rev dig his own hole by refusing to return, or making a comment that opens their eyes to his bigotry. As it is, this issue has become all about the teacher, and not about him.

In other words, I applaud her intentions, I disagree with how she went about it.

jamesb

I'm wondering how else she could have gone about it sparky. Should she simply have remained silent and let the good rev. go unchallenged? In the long run, I think the students have been given a good opportunity to learn from this. If nothing else, they "could" now know there is more than one side to every story.
I agree this is not really about Hutch but it is not really about the teacher either. The story should be about why this man was allowed to be a speaker with part of his agenda hidden. This man has tried to pass himself off as a "special envoy" from the White House to officials in Latvia and to the German News media is spite of the White House saying that was not the case. He refuses to answer for this. He has aligned himself with recent Russian immigrants who have been implicated in at least one murder in California and openly plan "war" (his and their words not mine) against gays and lesbians. (The group I refer to here is the Watchmen On The Walls which the Southern Poverty Law Center calls one of the most dangerous hate groups currently in the US) He has misled people about his "meetings" with Microsoft officials.
This is a guy who wants everyone else to do what he wants, be accountable to HIS church for their actions and beliefs and yet feels he has no responsibility for his own actions. He should be challenged at every turn.
In this case however, the one man that should be held accountable for this is the principal. He should loose his job.

joanie

I think anytime a bully can be confronted, he should be. That advisor had courage and modeled the best strategy to confront his apparent bigotry. She called him out on it and he was embarrassed.

There are gay kids in that assembly. Not to have confronted him would have been wrong. He was there to talk about King and making the observation that King's mandate for equality was universal was totally appropriate. Probably a good lesson for Hutcherson's own daughter. Maybe even Hutcherson himself.

Any man who calls for the bullying of any group of people is not representing the values of Dr. King.

High schoolers are the very kids who need to hear more of that. Such questions generate thinking/questioning over acceptance. Our schools have become much too timid in promoting thinking these days. Especially about "values" and bullying.

I think Dr. King himself would have called Hutcherson out.

Even at the elementary level, principals don't seem to know how to handle bullying.

And, if not high school, when?

joanie

One more thing, JamesB, I thought at first Hutcherson shouldn't have been invited as well. But, in the end, King's message was well delivered: by the teacher who put King's message on the table and in front of that student body.

That may have made the invitation worthwhile.

sparky

I think the Rev is a publicity seeking idjit...but the simple explanation is his daughter goes there, they are african american and in the ASB's mind, it was a fit for MLK day. The principal isn't the one who invited him.. ASB officers plan assemblies--kids. Should the ASB advisor have suggested someone different? Absolutely. But then you get into issues of not letting kids hear opposing views.

Face it, in a school situation, there are always no-win choices every day. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. And principals don't get paid like other CEO's to make the crap decisions.

How should the teacher have handled it? Hard to say, but maybe she could have couched her commen/challenge within the invitation to come back at another time to debate his feelings about gays in light of what MLK's message was. Maybe I am the only one who feels that some finesse on her part could have gotten her message across without affording him all the misplaced sympathy he seems to have gotten? I hate seeing him portrayed as the good guy.

joanie

Sparky, I don't know as much about this as you do.

Did he get sympathy? Did the advisor "take him on" in an angry way? Michael's commentary suggests she simply asked a question?

I thought his embarrassment was the result of the incongruity between his values and actions and those of Dr. King whom he was there to extol.

I'm curious now.

joanie

If anybody missed Bill Moyers last night, he had David Cay Johnson on. He clarified how companies are being subsidized by you and me. It is a fairly short listen and interesting for those who want to be informed on the condition of their pocketbooks.

David Cay Johnson

jamesb

You made my point Sparky. Allowing him to speak and not be challenged on his anti-gay crusade is portraying him as a "good guy". His record of deceit and bullying are well known.
As I wrote before, I believe he should be allowed to speak but his record should have been made known to the students.
And, ASB or not, the principal is responsible……regardless of how much he is paid for his job. If the ASB invited David Duke, should the principal go along with that?

DT

I'm for consistency.

If it's okay for that teacher to confront the speaker the way she did, then is must be okay for people to confront any speaker on issues that are important to them.

Example, if a master gardener is giving a speech about gardening, and the speaker happens to be pro-choice, and has let that be known in other settings, but someone in the audience is pro-life, then it should be okay for the audience member to question and confront the pro-choice speaker, even though the speaker is giving speech on gardening.

By the way, what is a minister doing giving a speech in a school? I don't believe that's appropriate. Then again, I don't think it's appropriate to name a county after a minister.

joanie

A minister has as much right to speak as a gardener as long as he's not proselytizing. We've had them because they knew King and they were excellent speakers.

I won't interrupt again! :)

joanie

Well, except to say your analogy borders on the ridiculous, DT. You can do better - unless, of course, you're a gay-hater as well.

jamesb

Would a pro-life gardner pick fruit? Wouldn't that kill the fruit?

SeattleJew

Sparky is right, you are wrong Joanie. :(
The assembly was the wrong time and place.
Just when I start to think you are getting it you just baffle me. Read again what Sparky wrote.
Read it carefully. I am sure you will get it.

DT

Joanie, I want to understand your logic. Are you saying you are only for audience members confronting speakers when you agree with the the audience member, but if you disagree with the audience member, it's not okay for them to confront the speaker?

DT

Joanie was right. I was being ridiculous, but to prove a point. If it's okay to confront a speaker on belief he holds unrelated to his speech, then is must be okay for everyone to do so, whether you agree with the confronter or not.

In other words, if you are for confronting speakers when they are against gay rights, then you must be for people confronting speakers for any reason, even if you disagree with the person doing the interrupting or confronting.

joanie

Seattle Jew, you apparently didn't learn the lesson of the holocaust: confronting early and often is the only way.

And Sparky said a lot. Just what do you agree with. Learn to be specific, please. I think you tend to react emotionally sometimes.


DT: Hutcherson was there to memorialize King whose whole message was tolerance and equal rights. How is that unrelated to the question of gay rights and acceptance esp. when the question included as an example a member of King's own contingent?

"must be for...confronting...for any reason"

This gets more and more stupid. No, not for any reason. Please reread. This was relevant to the message of King which Hutcherson was there to convey.


What is teaching if not holding people accountable to their message? Perhaps you needed better teachers and more relevant experiences in high school. We seem to have a population of people lacking the ability to think critically and just except propaganda. We are in a sad, sad state in this country.

And how do we know it was confrontational? Is a question always "confrontational?" Sometimes it is meant to bring clarification.

Now, if you continue to differ with my opinion - which you have every right to do - at least keep it relevant. Thank you.


And Seattle Jew, the reelection of George Bush in 2004 and the massive landslide of Republicans in 2002 should prove my contention that Americans are sorely in need of critical thinking skills beyond the shadow of a doubt.

If we don't do by high school, wtf do we do it?

I applaud the bravery of that adviser who got those kids to think about what King's message really means to them today and the people who aren't walking the talk.

joanie

Umm, SeattleJew, if your point is that is wasn't politically correct; aw, shucks, too bad-so sad. The big guy should have been able to handle it. Just like the kids who are the victims of his bullying have to learn to handle it.

DT

Joanie, then let me ask you directly: Do you believe it's okay for audience members to confront speakers during a lecture or speech, even when you disagree with what the audience member is saying?

I now know you are tolerant of people disrupting a speech when you agree with them. I now want to know if you are tolerant of people disrupting a speech when you disagree with them.

That's all I'm trying to find out.

joanie

What disruption? Since when is a question a disruption?

That's all I want to know.


And, yes, I think questions are fair game when anybody is speaking, taking questions and the questions are relevant to the topic.

You will have to define "disruption" for yourself. I don't regard relevant questions as disruptions.

I guess in your world, that adviser should have been tasered - right? Kerry can't handle non-pc questions; Hutcherson can't handle non-pc questions. let's make sure these big boys are handled with kid gloves...don't want to ask them anything that might prove difficult or make them and their audience THINK. Poor babies.

Screw the kids. Screw Dr. King's message. Dr. King would have been the first to question Hutcherson at that assembly.


If a question is a "disruption" DT, then, YES, it is okay to DISRUPT the assembly. Kids need to hear more DISRUPTIONS and learn to think.


The result of playing it safe and failing to challenge bullying or intolerance or discrimination are people who can do nothing more than follow the herd, make personal attacks thus elevating their otherwise vacuous egos and intellect and promoting divisiveness which ends up in events like the holocaust and the current gay and muslim bashing going on in America today.

DT

Good. Then you agree with me. It would be okay for a pro-life supporter to interrupt and confront a pro-choice speaker, even if that pro-choice speaker weren't even there to talk about abortion. Like if they were there to speak against the death penalty. You are saying it would be okay for the audience member to interject abortion into the event. That's all I wanted to hear.

joanie

Well, if that's what you "heard" in my written post, stick with it. It's fine with me. :)

Umm...are you a product of Seattle Schools?

DT

Joanie, you said "And, yes, I think questions are fair game when anybody is speaking, taking questions and the questions are relevant to the topic." So you did say yes, that taking questions is fair game. So you did agree with me. I was just trying to see if you're consistent in your belief.

But I'm not sure how the audience member at Mount Si was asking a question that was "relevant to the topic," when Dr. King himself remained silent on the issue of gay rights.

Personally, I happen to believe that that woman, who is also the same person who booed when Hutcherson was introduced, is guilty of committing a hate crime. If a white woman booing a black father in front of his daughter isn't a hate crime, I don't know what is.

sparky

I was at a workshop all day, jamesb..sorry to be late responding.

I think it is safe to say that a principal would not let David Duke speak..why? Because he is well known for his beliefs. I could be very wrong, but how many people have heard of the Rev, let alone know what his views are? I know about him because I read this blog. I had never heard of him before that.. Is he so well known that an administrator would want to intervene?? I don't know, so that is why I am asking.

Joanie, those were my words and thoughts that the teacher disrupted the assembly..I was going on the news story that said the Rev ended his speech immediately. I dont know if it was a question and answer session, or if she just stood up and waited until he called on her in the middle of his talk. I have never taught high school, but i know you cant just ignore how the kids feel about stuff.

I just finished getting my administrator's certificate a year ago, and one of my required classes was Washington School Law. I have to say, I had to do some pretty serious thinking about how much of this I am willing to put up with...principals' hands are tied much more than people realize, and I always joke that I would probably get fired pretty fast for my attitude about some of the sillier laws. Like I said, the prinicpal is damned if they do, damned if they dont...invite a controversial speaker and you are giving him or her a platform for spewing crap. Forbid someone from speaking to the students and you are violating free speech and civil rights.

sparky

By the way, and nobody probably cares...heh...but I planned our school's MLK assembly while sitting at home with an icebag on my foot..It was run by our 6th grade ASB officers, and the kids did everything, from reading poetry, bits of Langston Hughes'writing, singing, creative dance, and the participants were k-12. It was a celebration of his message. Maybe next year the Mt Si principal should encourage the fine arts departments to create a high school celebration that would let as many kids take part as possible. Kids like that a whole lot better than sitting and listening to an adult blah blah blah to them!

sparky

uh, that 12th grader was Stevarino..still trying to get a passing grade in science ....

JUST KIDDING YOU NEVETS!!

My school is k-6, not k-12.

DT

I fear for our county if that simple-minded war monger McCain is elected President.

Jamesb

Sparky,
He is very well known here and across the country. Google him and you will have a years worth of reading. Since my earlier posts, I have learned it is possible he had spoken at Mt. Si before and generated controversy. According to a couple of blog entries on two other blogs, an agreement was reached saying he would not be asked to speak there again. Now of course these are blog entries and who is to say whether or not they are true but it is more than fair to say Hutcherson is a lightning rod and is more often than not the aggressor.
I do understand your point about being damned either way, from the principal’s point of view, but there isn’t a lot of gray with Hutcherson. The man is a bully and needs to be confronted. This is actually a great teaching moment for the school. I hope they chose wisely.

sparky

Well in that case, the principal should have intervened if it had caused a problem before! Did you mean he wont be back again, or that the agreement was before his latest visit? The reason I ask is on the news report I saw, the principal had asked him to come back to participate in a roundtable discussion. Ack! I wish I knew someone who taught there..i would like to hear the back story.

jamesb

My understanding is the agreement preceded the MLK Day event. I saw a post mentioning that on the PI blog so I posted on Slog asking anyone who might know if it was true. Someone saying they are/were (sorry, the memory is fading) a student at Mt. Si said they believed it was true and several teachers have voiced support for the GSA advisors who spoke up.
You should read about Hutcherson Sparky. Google Hutcherson and Latvia or Hutcherson and Watchmen On The Walls. He is not just a local minister. He is not much better than the Good Rev, Phelps who organizes the protests at the funerals of American soldiers. It’s God’s punishment for our “acceptance” of homosexuality don’t you know.

PugetSound

Sparky
Hope they had a chance to read

" Letters From A Birmingham Jail "

It's one of the great works.

sparky

Ok james, I will go read up on him. I sure would like to see a copy of the letter the principal sent home to parents about the situation!

Puts, I dont think they read that one, but I know we have it. February is Black History month so I will make sure the 5th and 6th grade teachers know about it.

PugetSound

It really puts into context the fact that it is when good people stand by that evil is allowed to happen, the righteousness in disobeying an unjust law, and being willing to pay the consequences for it.

Nevets

No offense taken Sparky. I thought it was funny.

sparky

good!

jamesb

Sparky,
Let me know what you think about Hutch after your reading.

Tommy008

"Hutch", was on with Rush Limbaugh friday morning, yukking it up about the upcoming NFL conference championship ames. Phony fatass Rush, who never reistered to vote unti he was 36 years old, considers Htcherson a good friend. They are both bullies. McCain isn't all that great, but what heartens me about McCain is that Rush hates him with a passion,attacked him in the 2000 race, and is bringing back out his hateful , mocking faux songs with a McCain impersonator singing made-up lyrics disparaging and ridiculing the Senator. Limbaugh does a vicious impersonation himself of McCain. Repugs like Rush and Hutcherson don't consider McCain a true consevative or even a Republican. McCain 's nomination would totaly destroy the Repug conservative/evangelical axis that they've built up over the years, culminating in the Christian fascist regime of G.W. Bush. I as glad to see him put in a sound defeat of Huckabee, an evangelical nut, in South Carolina.

PugetSound

tommy 008
you're correct on the influence of the evangelical movement within the repub party. if they want to grow the repubs have to moderate a bit. reagan was able to stradle that but it is a rare individual that can appeal like reagan. even if you disagree with reagan's policies, you have to give him his due. kind of like obama did the other day.
damn, their has to be room for a party in the middle between the extremist on both sides. the right has rush, hannity, levin and the left has olby, malloy, and randi. nutters all.
give me a pragmatist with a wicked sense of humor like dennis miller any day.

Tommy008

Meet the Press is on and they are saying Huckabee overplayed his hand with the evangelicals by saying in a speech Monday that the Constitution should be amended to be in line with "the word of the Living God". I knew this scary fool would eventually blow it with his big clown mouth.

sparky

Ok james, I consider myself newly educated on the Rev. Ugh.
Wow they are even talking about him in Australia. Do you think he really believes what he is saying or is he just a shuckster who has figured out a way to have the attention of the world?? The only reason I say that is I have a huge distrust of people like him, knowing the behind-the-scenes shennanigans of the Bakkers and the Crouches from TBN.

JanetMorrow

Sounds like Hutcherson took a few too many hits to the head when he was playing football.

jamesb

Sparky,
Who knows if he believes what he is saying. I suppose he might. People have remarkable ways of seeking revenge. And I do believe he is seeking revenge for the injustices that black people have suffered but they did not suffer at the hands of gays and lesbians. Did you read about the Russian immigrants he has associated himself with? (The Watchmen On The Walls). Here are people who have come from a place where they suffered religious oppression and use their new found freedoms to oppress others with their religion. On it’s face, it doesn’t make sense but I suppose on a subliminal level, it does. They, the Russians and Hutch, have a lot of built up anger and they are looking for a dog to kick. At present, gays and lesbians are one target which they can get away with kicking. How they justify their actions with the teachings of Christ, I simply don’t understand. What comes off of their plates by the state allowing gays and lesbians to decide who gets to visit them in the hospital, inherit their property or call their partners, I do not understand.
I know one thing for sure. People like Hutcherson need to be confronted at every turn. The principal must have known about Hutcherson as it was alluded to in the print articles that Hutcherson was to “stay on topic”.
Once again just to be clear. I believe Hutcherson should be allowed to speak but his record should be made known to those he speaks to. I believe the Nazis should be allowed to march and the Klan should be allowed to rally. I hold no illusions that the Constitutional right of free speech means only speech everyone agrees with. To the contrary, the Framers believed faction was crucial. But as Madison warned, the tyranny of the majority is worse than the whims of a single monarch.

PugetSound

not to mention other charlatans ala those faith healers. the amazing randy who has made a career out of debunking these fellows is shown here.
here is a great clip. the con the unknowing and get it tax free to boot!


AmazingRandy

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