We caucused for Hillary Clinton last night...
It was only at Drinking Liberally, and it was a tentative commitment, as so many of our commitments have been over the years. Being that we're cynical, political pragmatists who have watched nasty Republicans pants-ing Democrats over and over in presidential politics, we dared not allow ourselves to think about the delicious prospects of a young Obama.
(It's like avoiding eating the first chocolate because you know it's not good for you and you're afraid you'll eat the whole box).
Besides, we kept telling ourselves: Clinton brings a hell of a lot more tangibles to the table than the junior senator from Illinois. We really don't know who he is yet- no one does. And besides, Hillary's impressive on the stump, and despite over two months of day-in-day-out trashing from both sides of the explaining industry, she still has a chance of winning the nomination, and we'd still vote for her if she did.
(A way better chance, f'r'instance, than those of high price sluts "Remember Rudy?" Giuliani, or John Edwards, or "Biff" Romney, with all their prance-y legshow; and not to speak of those tawdry, street corner whoo-datz like Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich).
Speaking of Edwards, although his issues are solid, there's a stink of snake oil about him we could never quite shake. Something a little too slithy. Others have the same visceral reaction to Edwards-- not rational maybe, but that gut thing is important. (We''d nominate Elizabeth Edwards in a New Hampshire minute, though).
But extrapolate the Barack Obama dream, and you get a Bobbie Kennedy. You
get a liberal candidate who might be able to pull the illusive Next
Gens out to vote; can pull in white male Republicans as well as the
usual women, girly men, and minorities whom we can always count on. Those amorous prospects have turned our heads-- as has the tease by one of his supporters last night-- Obama's maybe the only one who can pull off a landslide.
(On the other hand, maybe he's just another pretty face like John Anderson or Harold Stassen, all sex and no sox. Whichever, we'll definitely paying attention, and of course, voting in that all important state Republican primary on Feb. 19).
We haven't allowed ourselves to fall in love with a candidate in years-- we're still pretty scarred up and wary of being vulnerable.
But after Iowa (and it was only a first date...) we're thinkin' maybe... just maybe... we can love again.
Get ready for a year of garbage from this blog to help try and crown Queen Hillary...basically we'll get the same shit we've had for 24 years.
Go Ron Go!
Posted by: My Man Dori | January 03, 2008 at 10:52 PM
Outside of Duff, do we have any Hillary supporters on this blog?
Posted by: PugetSound | January 03, 2008 at 11:03 PM
Duff died 2 weeks ago.
Posted by: mangus | January 03, 2008 at 11:06 PM
Obama better not pop the champagne corks just yet. A win in Iowa does not guarantee the nomination. Tom Harkin and Dick Gephardt learned that from bitter experience. BTW, Republicans salivate to run against a black Democrat named, Hussein.
Posted by: abob | January 04, 2008 at 12:15 AM
It's like avoiding eating the first chocolate because you know it's not good for you and you're afraid you'll eat the whole box).
Ah, Michael. That's the difference between us. I always take that first bite...
You are much too cautious and where has it gotten the party? More of the same. If that's winning, I'd rather lose honestly.
Shelby Steele commenting tonight that we don't know Obama. Who knows what he stands for? Klueless thinks he does. I sure don't. I'm a loyalist to the end for Edwards.
And, yes, he has that look. I think he could change that if he were aware of it... and his stump speech is getting a little tired. Enough with the examples of people who need help. He's got to find a fresh message. Taking on the bullies on wall street would be a good start.
I hate to think you think like KS. For him, the issue is "blinking." For you, it's the "sleazeball" look. Neither of which should encourage or discourage your vote.
According to his statement tonight, he only had 2.5 million dollars while the other two campaigns were in double digits at least.
I think Edwards did pretty good.
And as for the younger generation? Weren't they looking for that last time for Kerry? As I recall, they didn't materialize. Too many frosh parties and fraternity functions going on I guess.
Oh well. Play it safe. Too late to shave an old man's whiskers.
I'll be okay with Obama but I won't expect much change. Lot of rhetoric but little change.
Posted by: joanie | January 04, 2008 at 12:54 AM
You know, a-boob, not all Republicans are as stupid as you. Ever think of that?
Mangus, you joking?
Posted by: joanie | January 04, 2008 at 12:55 AM
The only thing I know for sure is I'm voting in the Republican primary on Feb. 19th, and Edwards is a slithy toad for whom I'll vote if he"s nominated... which is doubtful.
Posted by: blathering michael | January 04, 2008 at 01:40 AM
At Think Progress they show 80% of the liberals are over forty-five and 75% of the Repugs are over forty-five. So much for your "youth" turnout.
Also, Iraq ranks as the top issue which doesn't bode well for Edwards. He's emphasizing domestic issues.
Posted by: joanie | January 04, 2008 at 02:27 AM
Mucho caucus, zero crockus,
hallimazuma-bub,
that's the secret password
that we use down at the club!
Posted by: dickie d. | January 04, 2008 at 02:33 AM
Huckabee? This is almost too good to be true. Oh PLEASE that it lasts, we're gonna clean up!!!
Posted by: Elated | January 04, 2008 at 06:26 AM
I don't understand why some think Huckabee is an "easy kill". Long winded young Black guy whos name sounds like Osama and contains Hussein versus likeable White evangelical from Arkansas. Sell me on the idea of Obama beating Huckabee.
Posted by: AuthenticAndrew | January 04, 2008 at 07:00 AM
Huckabee...huckleberry, huckmeister, hucksta and who could forget the Hucklebuck.
Posted by: BAM!!! | January 04, 2008 at 10:13 AM
Not sure if Huckleberry isn't more viable than people think. The American people have fallen before to nice guy jokers out of nowhere.
Posted by: sarge | January 04, 2008 at 10:43 AM
Gotta admit, I hope mangus is full of crap. Hey Duffy, if you are out there, stick your head up.
Joanie. Who is Shelby Steele? That is a name I had not heard before.
Posted by: chucks | January 04, 2008 at 10:45 AM
someone on SP said Duffman was down in SA preachin Hillary to the natives?
Posted by: andrews | January 04, 2008 at 10:49 AM
Huckabee better stop showing us his family photos. His sons all weigh 300+lbs and one them actually executed a dog by hanging. Huckabee will have a tough time selling his family values line of horseshit to non-evangelical wackjobs.
Posted by: abob | January 04, 2008 at 11:59 AM
Shelby Steele
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelby_Steele
Posted by: BAM!!! | January 04, 2008 at 12:26 PM
All the conservative talk show hosts are praising Obama for his Iowa victory and speech. They all hope he wins the nomination. Republicans pray to God for the chance to run against a black man named Hussein.
Posted by: abob | January 04, 2008 at 12:33 PM
Huckabee could do it. People like him, he is not a stuffed shirt. And you are right abob, this country isn't ready for a smooth talking Moslem Negro boy lawyer, and Negros are not ready to run this country. Barry Hussein is a low level street con man who was set up by the Republicans to get rid of Hillary. BWah hahahahahah!
Posted by: sooner | January 04, 2008 at 12:51 PM
I can hardly believe you said that! Are livin in the dark ages, this is 2009 dude!
Posted by: andrews | January 04, 2008 at 12:56 PM
andrews
yours was a typo or brain fart (2009), sooner is just an idiotic bigot.
Posted by: chucks | January 04, 2008 at 01:15 PM
I agree with sarge, GWB could have shot your mom and people would have still voted for him. He got people kid's killed in Iraq to avenge his dad and they still re-elected him.
Huckabee's kid hung a dog? If anything that plays to the conservative base. When their dog's have a limp they put'em down, and if their guns jammed and the river is running shallow then you gotta do what you gotta do.
Posted by: AuthenticAndrew | January 04, 2008 at 01:41 PM
The humane thing to do w/be to turn over to Michael Vick for disposal.
Posted by: andrews | January 04, 2008 at 01:44 PM
Duffman
If you're out there give us a heads up. I recall last year someone falsely said Duff was dead.
Posted by: PugetSound | January 04, 2008 at 02:06 PM
I really really resent ABC news taking the roll of "decider" by making an independent decision on who gets to speak to the American Public. I think that until the candidate decides to pull out of the race, he or she should be allowed to speak. Also, how could they use results in Iowa as an indicator and still say they had decided BEFORE Iowa caucuses. Assholes.
"AP- Saturday's prime-time presidential debates from New Hampshire will be less crowded because ABC News is eliminating GOP candidate Duncan Hunter and Democrats Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel.
The candidates failed to meet benchmarks for their support that were outlined prior to Thursday's Iowa caucus, the network said Friday.
ABC said it hoped to encourage more conversation and interaction between the candidates during the debates, which will both be moderated by Charles Gibson. The stakes are high as candidates take the stage three days before the New Hampshire primary.
The Republican debate will include Iowa caucus winner Mike Huckabee, John McCain, Rudy Giuliani, Fred Thompson, Mitt Romney and Ron Paul. It starts at 7 p.m. EST.
Shortly after that 90-minute forum, Democrats Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and Bill Richardson will take the stage at St. Anselm College in Manchester, N.H.
The network set rules to narrow the field. Candidates had to meet at least one of three criteria: place first through fourth in Iowa, poll 5 percent or higher in one of the last four major New Hampshire surveys, or poll 5 percent or higher in one of the last four major national surveys."
Posted by: sparky | January 04, 2008 at 02:16 PM
Hey sooner I haven't seen you since the outhouse tippin'. How ya doin' dude??
Posted by: LeeAnn | January 04, 2008 at 02:24 PM
heh...one of my favorite pictures, that is.
Posted by: sparky | January 04, 2008 at 02:38 PM
How come there aint no popular support for a Howard Dean candidacy? A couple years ago, Dean was the leader of the Democratic Party. Why do Democrats reject Dean? Was it because of that "scream" thing?
Posted by: abob | January 04, 2008 at 05:55 PM
Aboob, Dean IS the leader (chairman) of the Democratic party.
Surely, you knew that...
And No-Mo tanx you for the garbled tribute to Stan Boreson, Bla'M and dick!
No sour grapes allowed, Duf...come out, come out!
Posted by: fremont | January 04, 2008 at 07:36 PM
Duffman, Duffman, Duffman, Duffman.....
Posted by: PugetSound | January 04, 2008 at 07:45 PM
Duff's been gone a long time. Mangus sounds serious somehow. I'm a little worried.
Gave the guy a lot of sh**, but I'd still like to see him post. C'mon Duff. No games, please. I'm not through beating up on you!
Posted by: joanie | January 04, 2008 at 09:21 PM
Now, back to politics.
I heard the Mike Huckabee speech today. He was introduced by Chuck Norris. I was impressed with both of them. I hate to say it, but he's got a very good message.
Norris is not an old friend of Huckabee. To hear Norris tell it, he runs a "Kick Start" program that has graduated 50,000 kids from high school. (More to tell there but this is not about that.)
A couple of kids emailed Norris about Huckabee and Norris checked him out rather recently. Liked what he read and is working for him. A friend told me Norris is a recent Christian convert.
The rally then featured Huckabee playing base guitar with a rock group called Mama Kiss. Can't say much for his playing cause I'm no expert but he was into it and they played three songs - I think a Creedence Clearwater - and had a featured singer that sound like Joplin. (I love Joplin - esp. Cheap Thrills.)
Then, he spoke. Very Well. Very plainly. He's got the same humble beginnings that Edwards talks about but he's so much less emotional. Just talks. Very folksy but not overly so. Wants to put in place a consumption tax. Abolish the IRS. And reinstitute the arts in education. Thinks they are important. Also, higher teacher pay. I don't know what Arkansas teachers make but he says he did that in his state. Need to check that out.
He sounds like a social liberal.
All I can say is that he isn't half bad to listen to and may be much more of a threat than anyone thinks who hasn't listened to him.
I don't know what I want anymore!
Then he played another song with the band. Kept his cool, was least passionate but still believable and honest sounding. Also, sounds like a man who gets things done.
If words win the election, he's got 'em.
Posted by: joanie | January 04, 2008 at 09:33 PM
Duffman has a new job as Larry Craigs spokesperson. He is a good member of the Idaho GOP in standing and bending.
Posted by: Geraldo Rivera | January 04, 2008 at 09:34 PM
Chucks:
I was first introduced to Shelby Steele on TV interview shows like Charlie Rose.He is a member of the Hoover Institute at Stanford which is conservative. He's a Black writer and consultant on race issues. He's one of the go-to commentators when black issues arise in politics.
He is not overly empathetic with fellow blacks. I think he came from a family where all the kids succeeded very well - I'm guessing via simple hard work. But I don't know that. He gives that impression.
I heard him talking once about a brother in psych who is much more pro-affirmative action than he is. He's sort of a Clarence Thomas but better looking and well spoken.
Posted by: joanie | January 04, 2008 at 09:51 PM
Obama sure makes a nice candidate. Tall and willowy, kind face, shrewd yet innocent looking, smiling eyes and calm. Everything about him physically is appealilng and his wife and kids are just so middle American and reminiscent of the Kennedy years somehow.
Really, we can't go wrong with him either.
For anyone who's still reading, the Huckabee-Chuck Norris rally is starting again on CSpan right now. If you're into rock n roll, check it out. I'd like to hear someone else's opinion of Huckabee both musically and politically.
Posted by: joanie | January 04, 2008 at 11:34 PM
And Tommy, did you hear Jeffers this morning on Ross? He couldn't shut up. Ross finally called it a filibuster!
Funny and irritating at the same time.
Posted by: joanie | January 04, 2008 at 11:36 PM
I actually heard it and literally felt like the air was being sucked out of my car. The man refuses to even pause for a second. And damn he was sounding a little too conspiracy minded.
Posted by: PugetSound | January 04, 2008 at 11:44 PM
joanie, Have you read or heard Hucks thoughts regarding some of the happenings in Iraq/Afghanistan? Not very knowledgeable... He wouldn't last very long in a conversation about foreign policy.
Ron Paul was on with Bill Moyers tonite. He has better ideas than Huck, but is not socially acceptable to a good progressive.
Posted by: BummyL | January 04, 2008 at 11:52 PM
Listening to Carl Jeffers is like getting a full blast from a fire hydrant; when all you wanted was a drink of water. How can he possibly maintain a healthy blood pressure when he is constantly at such a bombastic overwrought excitable level of intensity?
Posted by: abob | January 05, 2008 at 03:51 AM
abob
actually, he may have to spew the pent up words. so it might be better for jeffers to actually let loose the pressure that builds from within.
as dave ross found out yesterday, you can't stop or even engage carl in meaningful conversation, you can only try to guide him between hard station breaks...
kind of like a rodeo bullrider.
Posted by: PugetSound | January 05, 2008 at 08:15 AM
Joans: Huck is NOT a social liberal...check out his record on AIDS, abortion, gun control, etc. here. Don't be spun by his presentation...he is anathema to your values. Also, his bass-playing was less than astounding...note that he used only one right hand finger, a beginner's achievement.
Posted by: fremont | January 05, 2008 at 11:52 AM
And if you even deign to disagree, he spews forth even faster...I wonder if he's a spitter? I'd hate to have to clean up the microphone after he's been on air or be the next one to use it.
Yesterday, his last sentence not only wouldn't allow Dave and his other guest to respond but introduced three new topics as well.
Bummy: I heard Huckabee's ideas on education but can't remember what he said about Iraq. Darn.
Ron Paul did say when talking to Russert that he thought all that money being spent on Iraq could better be used to help all those in the US that need help. The way he put it sounded socially liberal to me. I think conservatives and liberals should listen to each other's candidates. Not every candidate's ideas fit perfectly into the party's platform.
Clinton is an example of that as she is too wall street for me. Dems are supposed to represent labor. My take anyway.
Of course, seems like they never do what they promise anyway.
Posted by: joanie | January 05, 2008 at 12:02 PM
Thanks, Fremont. Too much CSpan I'm afraid!
The word is mightier than the weapon! He had me goin' there. He sure makes a good sound bite.
Wasn't his AIDS comment an old one? Just like I give Byrd the benefit of getting smarter, I'll give Huck a pass on that. With age brings some wisdom I hope.
But, rest assured, I'd never vote for a Repug without more research.
Keep me informed about those rock n roll pretenders, please. I'm a sucker for a rock star - a la Jimmy Page.
Posted by: joanie | January 05, 2008 at 12:09 PM
Just checked out Huckabee's website and ideas.
You're right, Fremont, he's not my guy! The only thing I liked was his take on education.
Posted by: joanie | January 05, 2008 at 12:22 PM
leave it to Fremont to always be joanie's guiding light
Posted by: andrews | January 05, 2008 at 12:40 PM
BTW, Joans, et. al: Have you lost one of your C-Span channels? Once there were two...now one has disappeared a la Duf. What's up with that?
Posted by: Fremont | January 05, 2008 at 12:41 PM
CSpan 2 has turned into high definition and you can't get it without a special or HD TV. I don't have HD TV. Do you? I don't know if you need a special connection if you have an HD TV.
In England, the government gave everyone a box free. Here, we'll have to rent it.
I do basic cable so am not surprised they don't take care of me. But, people who take all the bells and whistles should be informed and made right.
But, since we're all slaves to the corporation now, service doesn't really matter anymore.
Posted by: joanie | January 05, 2008 at 12:47 PM
Obama is impressive, but so far it's symbolism over substance. I will be interested in the head-to-head debates with the Republican candidate when the good senator will have to get to some specifics. It's the Dems contest to lose, I believe America is on the Dems side this time around and if it's Obama, he's going to have to get his game plan down to specifics on all the strong issues, immigration, health care, Iraq and especially socal security.
As an aside joanie, I believe one can now apply for a $40 credit toward a converter box for any TV that will not be compliant in '09.
Posted by: andrews | January 05, 2008 at 12:59 PM
Robertson told Hannity and Colmes that God told him that a Democrat was going to win the election. It wasn't absolutely clear but that's what he thinks God said.
Check it out on Thinkprogress.org.
I imagine this is another "fear" tactic to get the right Christian element mobilized. That's why the "not clear" message. Could change.
Posted by: joanie | January 05, 2008 at 12:59 PM
andrews, I agree on the first point and thanks for the information on the second.
I'm leaving now. I do have a life off this blog!
BTW, Kennedy is interviewing Tom Brokaw on Ring of Fire and he's interesting. Talking a lot of politics, of course.
Posted by: joanie | January 05, 2008 at 01:02 PM