take your answer off the air...

  • HorsesAss.Org: the straight poop on WA politics & the press
    progressive brilliance from the guy who pointed out Tim Eyman's nascent horse's-assedness
  • Talker's Magazine
    The quirky talk radio trade mag. Check the Talk Radio Research Project- it's not very scientific, but places on the top 15 talkers list (scroll down to Talk Radio Audiences By Size)) are as hotly contested as Emmys (and mean just about as much).
  • The Advocate
    No, not THAT Advocate... it's the Northwest Progressive Institute's Official Blog.
  • Media Matters
    Documentation of right-wing media in video, audio and text.
  • Orcinus
    home of David Neiwert, freelance investigative journalist and author who writes extensively about far-right hate groups
  • Hominid Views
    "People, politics, science, and whatnot" Darryl is a statistician who fights imperialism with empiricism, gives good links and wry commentary.
  • Jesus' General
    An 11 on the Manly Scale of Absolute Gender, a 12 on the Heavenly Scale of the 10 Commandments and a 6 on the earthly scale of the Immaculately Groomed.
  • Howie in Seattle
    Howie Martin is the Abe Linkin' of progressive Seattle.
  • Streaming Radio Guide
    Hellishly long (5795!) list of radio streaming, steaming on the Internets.
  • The Naked Loon
    News satire -- The Onion in the Seattle petunia patch.
  • Irrational Public Radio
    "informs, challenges, soothes and/or berates, and does so with a pleasing vocal cadence and unmatched enunciation. When you listen to IPR, integrity washes over you like lava, with the pleasing familiarity of a medium-roast coffee and a sensible muffin."
  • The Maddow Blog
    Here's the hyper-interactive La Raych of MSNBC. daily show-vids, freakishly geeky research, and classy graphics.
  • Northwest Broadcasters
    The AM, FM, TV and digital broadcasters of Northwest Washington, USA and Southwest British Columbia, Canada. From Kelso, WA to the northern tip of Vancouver Island, BC - call letters, formats, slogans, networks, technical data, and transmitter maps. Plus "recent" news.
  • News Corpse
    The Internet's chronicle of media decay.
  • The Moderate Voice
    The voice of reason in the age of Obama, and the politics of the far-middle.
  • News Hounds
    Dogged dogging of Fox News by a team who seems to watch every minute of the cable channel so you don't have to.
  • HistoryLink
    Fun to read and free encyclopedia of Washington State history. Founded by the late Walt Crowley, it's an indispensable tool and entertainment source for history wonks and surfers alike.

right-wing blogs we like

  • The Reagan Wing
    Hearin lies the real heart of Washington State Republicans. Doug Parris runs this red-meat social conservative group site which bars no holds when it comes to saying who they are and who they're not; what they believe and what they don't; who their friends are and where the rest of the Republicans can go. Well-written, and flaming.
  • Orbusmax
    inexhaustible Drudgery of NW conservative news
  • The Radio Equalizer
    prolific former Seattle KVI, KIRO talk host speaks authoritatively about radio.
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January 15, 2008

Comments

cowpotpi3

Yeah but did you read the study? That's all I'm asking you. It doesn't argue that the atmosphere does not get colder as elevation increases - its talking about suspension of moisture as a function of warming. They are not mutually exclusive phenomena.

Nevets

Cap, good to see you lost your life again and have come back here to call everyone who doesn’t think like you names. I don't know where you got that the farmers are or are not complaining, or that it’s raining. I just corrected Sparky on her remark about the farmers in that they will more than likely vote for Rossi like in 2004 because this year there is more SNOW in the mountains and they will not be feeling "the pinch" as Sparky claimed. Joanie backed me up quite nicely don’t you think, because of climate change, there will be more SNOW in the mountains probably this year and for a few years to come at least in some areas like North Western America.

"As this soggy air moves from ocean to land, the storms that form are heavier with rain or snow."

Now if you think Dave and I are the same, you are wrong and B'lam can verify that, but his comment was quite funny and I did have a chuckle over it. Like with Joanie, you and I disagree as to the cause of the Climate Change. I will never infringe on your right to give your hard earned money to scam artists like Gore if that is what you want, but please do not force me via some legislature to hand over my hard earned money.

If you need help finding your life again, just ask, I will be happy to help.

Nevets

That should be "the legislature" for those who have no common sense.

mercifurious

Some more 4th-grad grammar from Never-Nevetsland:
Cap, good to see you lost your life again and have come back here to call everyone who doesn’t think like you names.

Does this make any sense to anyone here? These must make you cringe, Joanie.

OH, here's another:
I just corrected Sparky on her remark about the farmers in that they will more than likely vote for Rossi like in 2004 because this year there is more SNOW in the mountains and they will not be feeling "the pinch" as Sparky claimed.

And another:
Joanie backed me up quite nicely don’t you think, because of climate change, there will be more SNOW in the mountains probably this year and for a few years to come at least in some areas like North Western America.

And lookie here, another:
I will never infringe on your right to give your hard earned money to scam artists like Gore if that is what you want, but please do not force me via some legislature to hand over my hard earned money.

Not that I'm shocked about the education level of said Political demographic.

Study this Nevets:
http://www.arts.uottawa.ca/writcent/hypergrammar/sntstrct.html
...and then return and enlighten us with your Global Warming knowledge

Dave

Oh poppycock! Can we please get cow patty back on here so that we will have something funny to read. Provided he's done his chores that is.

sparky

Stevarino..do you know the difference between snow and a glacier? ( re: the source of the Columbia River..)

m

cpp3 - no, I did not read it; I already knew that warmer air holds more moisture than colder air. Relative humidity and dew point are mutual functions - the further apart the temp and dew point are, the lower the RH.

Nevets

D&D, while I study that website you linked, why not help me out and tell me where I need to put the four letter expletives in that post so you can better understand.

Nevets

Sparky, you must have been shaking your head in disgust after clicking on that continue button. I'll let you take it back. I wouldn't want to embarass you again.

Nevets

Oh Sparky, even though I am giving you a break this time, I will always remind you of it. "do you know the difference between snow and a glacier?"

Muahahahahahaha.

Most important, perhaps, the Columbia is a snow-charged river that seasonally fluctuates in volume.

Muahahahahahaha

I hope you don't teach science and geography.

Muahahahahahaha

sparky

It was a yes or no question.

Unfortunately, you picked a very incomplete source for your Mwahah-ing. You see, you did what a lot of my students do..they look up one place on the Internet and trust that they have found THE definitive answer.

The Columbia Icefields ( which I have stood upon on a trip to Canada) feeds the Athabasca River, the Northern Saskatchewan River, and all the numerous tributary headwaters of the Columbia River, including Columbia Lake. Of course the lake and the river are snow fed. But the true beginnings of the river start up much higher. Next summer, maybe you can take a trip up north and check it out for yourself. It is a very beautiful place.

joanie

...is this what it is to slip into irrelevance?

No, it is what it is to slip into ignorance.

My statement was quite simple - the higher you go, the colder it gets.

And that is exactly the problem with your thinking. This is not a simple science. You people on the right want everything simple - well thanks for the biggest simpleton of all: George "I'm the Decider" Bush.


And now I know another of Mark's favorite things: icicles on windshields.

With time, we can rewrite the whole damn song just for Markie.


Keep flying,Mark, and leave the atmospheric sciences to the atmospheric scientists on both Planet Earth and Planets Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Pluto... If you think they are comparable at all to Earth, my already low opinion of your science acuity has been lowered x100. (That's math, BTW.)

Nevets

Sparky, maybe you need to look up the meaning of the words "Headwaters" and "tributary". That might help you understand the source of the Columbia River. Which as you just posted, is the source, not the Columbia Icefields.

You did get the definition of a glacier I linked. Do you have on that dosen't include the word "Snow" in it.

Nevets

I like your use of Wikipedia also for your source.

joanie

You know, Steven, there is a limit to one's acceptance of your ignorance even on a blog...

Can't you ever admit when you're wrong? Poor Mrs. Steven!

mercifurious

Poor Mrs. Steven

That, Joanie, is the most far-fetched assumption yet made on BW.

mark

Joanie - keep diggin', maybe you'll come out the other side...

You are proof that hidebound stubbornness is not strictly reserved to the extreme right. I would venture to guess a good dividing point between middle age and elderly would be the lack of the ability to objectively examine a subject and admit/correct error.

Enjoy your stewed apricots.

sparky

Steven, why did you need to go to the dictionary to find out what a glacier is? As I pointed out before, it was a yes or no question I asked you. So, the answer appears to be no.

I know what headwaters and tributaries are without having to go look them up. How do you think Columbia Lake gets filled up? And why is this so important to you? This all started with me telling you I dont live near Vancouver, and you went from there to asking if I can see mountains and then you're telling me that it's just snow that fills the Columbia River. This is some of the weirdest stuff I have seen you post on here.

mercifurious

Steven, why did you need to go to the dictionary to find out what a glacier is? As I pointed out before, it was a yes or no question I asked you. So, the answer appears to be no.

Sparky/Joinie - jeez you guys, we're just talking way too far above Nevets ability-levels. Here Nevets, let's try this:

What happens when water droplets get cold and freeze?

Then, what happens when the frozen water droplets build up over time?

Then, what happens to an big ol' ice cube when you heat it up?

See? That's not so hard now, is it?

Nevets

No, Sparky, it started with you saying the Farmers of Eastern Washington would not vote for Rossi because they are feeling "the pinch" due to his stance on Global Warming.

As for the definition, I wanted you to read that yes I knew the difference,(surely you are smart enough to make that assumption) but I also thought that , well maybe you didn't know that snow makes a glacier. You might want to take D&D's test there.

Now, to prove me wrong, why not follow your advice and find more than one site to back up your claim besides wilkipedia which is where you got your Columbia Icefields . (which only states that it is the headwaters of THE Columbia Rivers tributaries) Why you did not go with wikipedia's Columbia River where it clearly states that its headwaters are formed in the Columbia Lake is unknown. My guess is that it was to far down the page or you seen Columbia Icefields and thought that if the name has Columbia in it, then it must be the source. Wrong. Now I have given you two sites that clearly says the headwaters of the Columbia River is Columbia Lake, can you back up your claim or are you just like your students.

By your definition, the Missouri River would be the 4th largest in the world. Is this what you are teaching? Is this why are students are lacking in Geography compared to other countries?

Nevets

D&D, here are my answers to your little quiz.

What happens when water droplets get cold and freeze?

it turns to ice.

Then, what happens when the frozen water droplets build up over time?

They form Glaciers.

Then, what happens to an big ol' ice cube when you heat it up?

It melts


Did i pass, huh, huh.

Nevets

Joanie, you hate it when I'm right don't you?

sparky

Steve, I do believe you know my friend Charles from another blog, who doesn't believe in El Nino, or that the moon's pull causes the tides and our weather is controlled by HARRP.
Im sure I speak for everyone when I say we would be interested in your explanations for those things too.

joanie

YOu know, markie. at least Steven uses some relevant terms in his answers. You resort to personal slams.

I think your lack of knowledge on anything atmospheric short of what you can see with your own eyes is apparent to most people reading this blog.

So, continue to enjoy your "snow on the mountaintops; rain on the windows; lalalalalalalalla....


And Steven, "soggy air" has a high moisture content and often results in - yup, you guessed it - rain. Duh.

The question is: why is the air so soggy?

joanie

BTW, being a first-grade teacher has given me lots of practice making things simple.

EdmondsDan

"BTW, being a first-grade teacher has given me lots of practice making things simple.

Posted by: joanie | January 18, 2008 at 10:27 PM "

It also explains a lot in regards to your poor critical thinking skills, inability to tolerate dissent, and a general lack of real intellectual depth.
Go back to the playground Joanie. You have recess to attend to. Leave the science to the scientist.

mark

Dan, it's pretty simple - Joanie will never admit error however obvious it is.

joanie

Oh, another substantive response. Mark - who finds science in snowflakes on mountaintops and EdmondsDan who hasn't posted until the opportunity arises for a personal attack sans anything relevant - keep trying.

I put up with a lot of K-1 name calling and simplistic thinking every day. Nothing new except you're both a little old for it. :)

PugetSound

Joanie
Lets be fair, all of us engage in a fair amount of name calling on this board. all of us. so don't play hollier than thou on the topic. instead, use your logic and wit to engage the argument at hand or just ignore it.
be the bigger person...

ps: duffmaster, i am happy to read that your demise was premature. welcome back, the water is warm.

joanie

Why puts, you're back to your old self. Hard to refrain from the name-calling isn't it. Join your alter-ego (and pseudonum) and mark in vacuous posts.

I think you must have been feeling neglected. Poor putsie. :)

PugetSound

oh, so now i am duffman?

joanie

You are whomever you wish to be, putsie. It doesn't matter to me.:)

PugetSound

you're leaving me an opening there that even the zaftig duffman could squeeze through it. but i will let it be and wish you the best.

Nevets

Well Sparky, I do believe in "El Nino" and that it is the "Moon's" pull that controls our "tides". Never heard of HARRP. But why change the subject, can't find another source for your Columbia Icefield answer. I doubt you will find one. Oh, how many miles is Columbia Lake from them Icefields anyway? I think my observation on how you picked that answer was correct.

Duffman

ps: duffmaster, i am happy to read that your demise was premature. welcome back, the water is warm.

Puts: thanks man...seems like the water is hot for me...but I can handle it.

Nevets

Joanie, are you paying attention, I already agreed with and thanked you. What more do you want?

Ok, could the answer be "El Nino" and Clouds. It is true that El Nino warms the ocean and cloud cover warms the lower atmosphere.

Am I right? huh, huh.

Duffman

Puts has very cleverly and in a polite manner handed several herein their ass in the past and it's nice to see that he can still do it. It's simply no competition when he posts and someone tries to take him on. It's obvious to all but you'll never hear them say it...they just get r-e-a-l q-u-i-e-t. It's remarkable to see.

sparky

That is not a very good analogy Steven. How far away is the ocean from the Rocky Mountains? The water still gets there eventually!

Glad to hear you believe in El Nino.

sparky

Oh, and one more thing...

if you go to

http://employees.oneonta.edu/
baumanpr/geosat2/Big_Melt_Down/
Big_Melt_Down.htm

you can find the following information:

"From glaciers on the ice field's northwestern edge, water flows into the Fraser and Columbia rivers leading to the Pacific Ocean. The Columbia River flows 1,240 miles (2,000 km) before outletting its fresh water into the ocean."


Sorry my hotlink is not working.
Look down under FIGURE 2: General Location Map of the Columbia Icefield.

Nevets

Nice article, I never knew it was so significant Sparky, but it says "flows into" not that it is the source of the Columbia river.

"( re: the source of the Columbia River..)"

There are many rivers that "flow into" the Columbia River. For instance the Snake river, and we don't consider that the source do we.?

Here are some examples of what to look for in your search. Since you used Wikipedia once, I thought it appropriate to use that as my source.

Nisqually River

The river rises in southern Mount Rainier National Park, fed by the Nisqually Glacier on the southern side of Mt. Rainier.

Athabasca River

The Athabasca River (French: rivière Athabasca) originates from the Columbia Glacier of the Columbia Icefield

Now if you can find one site that says the Columbia River originates or rises from the Icefield or one of its Glaciers. I will admit you are right and I am wrong. Up for the challenge or can we just say you were wrong and i am right.

Nevets

I could never pass this singular place without admiring its situation and romantic bold scenery ... other rivers have their sources so ramified in rills and brooks that it is not easy to determine the parent stream, this is not the case with the Columbia River

Columbia Lake.

joanie

I appreciate the discussion you and Sparky are having over this. You're finally checking some sources and comparing notes. I like that, Steven. It has been interesting.

Regarding your last site, it does seem that the lake is pretty much accepted as the main source of the river. However, isn't it just possible that another take on it might be to look further up to see what exactly feeds the lake?

"The Columbia Icefields is the only glacier in the world that drains into three oceans: to the east, the North Saskatchewan River drains into the Atlantic Ocean; to the north, the Athabasca River drains into the Arctic Ocean; and the Columbia River flows westward into the Pacific Ocean."

I'm not trying to prove anybody right here. I think you two are talking at cross purposes. Would you deny that the water that forms the Columbia River starts higher than the Lake even though the Lake is considered the "official" answer.

I think Sparky was only trying to provide more information. I wish I'd been able to go up there and actually stand on the ice fields. That sounds awesome! I'm envious of that!

Tell me, however, how it is that cloud cover warms the earth? I thought the sun's rays warmed the earth. Cloud cover keeps out the rays of the sun. Not arguing here but wondering...

Actually, anyone can answer as long as they know what they're talking about.

sparky

Steven...now you are just being stubborn. I already gave you a link to where it says the icefields feed the river--yes, by way of Columbia Lake. That is not a rare phenomenon to have lakes fed by glaciers, leadig to rivers. Visit Glacier National Park sometime. And, as I said, if you have to see it for yourself, then go on up to Banff.

By the way,please do not ever visit head of the Metolius River in Oregon as it will really confuse you.

I'm moving on to something else now.

Nevets

Joanie, could it be that the clouds trap the heat from escaping to the atmosphere. Have you ever noticed it is colder on clear nights?

And on the Columbia Ice fields, I too was impressed by that article, but it was Sparky who said it was the "Source" of the Columbia River via the Columbia Lake. The reference she said that the Columbia Ice field feeds the lake is wrong. (She actually just typed Columbia Lake in to try to prove her point, but never linked an actual reference)

The Columbia Lake is spring fed from underground sources. If you look at a map, you'll see that the Kootenai River runs south from the Ice field, a distance of 60 miles or so but does not, again, does not feed into the lake even though they pass really close together (1KM). So tell me, if the Columbia Ice fields did supply Lake Columbia, what feeds it? There are no other rivers or streams flowing south and if it did, how would it get over that Mountain Range that runs N-S on the eastern side of the lake.

So it is physically impossible for any runoff of a Glacier of the Columbia Ice fields to reach the Columbia Lake.

Nevets

Unless, there are 60 miles of volcanic tubes running south from the Columbia Ice Fields.

Duffman

...goin to OT in the Packers/Giants game in sub-zero weather...now THAT's football! :)

sparky

Be sure to contact the Canadian government and tell them of your findings, Steven.

Nevets

I think somebody already beat me to it. Sorry to prove you wrong.


Again.


Muahahahahahahahaha.

I kind of enjoy doing the Stepanie Miller sound bite.

Nevets

Columbia River

Duffman

Doesn't sound good, folks!
Read It And Weep

Only 5-years of summer Artic ice cap left?

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