The Producers, Part 2, the callers: turn your damn radio off, and don't ask the host how he's doin!

Producers' love/hate relationship with callers is the old can't-live-with-'em-or-without 'em paradox.

Former Seattle producer Luke Burbank, a reporter for NPR's Day to Day, (KUOW m-f, 12-1p) describes it thus: "A good call can launch an entire hour of good radio. A bad call can really tip the train off the tracks."

On the other hand, a producer told us, listeners are often "encouraged by hosts to think they're brilliant, and truly own the show." (they are, after all, members of the exclusive club of people with intelligence advanced enough to snap on the radio at the apponted hour) Some will call 11 times everyday, with suggestions or pronouncements for the staff,who are their employees, and demands to go on the air.

Call screening for their own shows is done by most of the producers we talked to. KIRO producer Tina Nole, (Dave Ross (m-f, 9-noon) and Ron Reagan (9m-f, 12-1) puts the callers in order and mixes the calls into what she hopes is a good conversational stew, if not a soufflé.

"Strategically placing callers is a real art," she says. "I put them in a certain order, but if an important question is raised by a caller and another has the answer, or if Dave takes the topic in a new direction or something, I'll change the order."

TomF, a BlatherWatch commenter who's screened for national and local shows says the producer's job is to build "an organic information product in real time that will appeal to the show's core audience."

That may mean, he writes, keeping a good caller on hold until they fit into the flow of the show. thie caller may have "a funny or sweet 'kicker' question to end an hour with. And sometimes, he says, "the opportunity to air a waiting call doesn't arise at all, so the board is dumped at 59:30. Sorry about that. It's no conspiracy, though; it's producing.

"Think of the calls as spices around the stockpot. You'll use some heavily, some lightly, and decide against others."

The criterion for callers depends on their purpose, said KTTH host/producer Dave Boze (Sytman & Boze,m-f, 5-9a), "On some topics, you’re just looking to put another voice on the air for a change-up. For others, you’re seeking, only the most articulate and creative voices in the audience." 

"We really try to put on callers that disagree with Michael,"  says Jeremy Steiner, Michael Medved Show (KTTH m-f,12-1p) producer, "it's much more interesting to engage and debate issues with people than to hear the amen chorus."

But callers brave enough and good enough to come on the radio and debate, are not plentiful.

"I love callers who have a story. Or are quirky," says Luke Burbank, "The worst caller is someone who just flatly agrees with the host. The problem is, those are most of the people who call. And hosts love to hear people agree with them. But it’s terrible radio."

National shows like Medved's have more staff than the local shows and such high call volume, they can be choosier. The show has an associate producer who does most of the screening for Steiner.

"If [callers are] not interesting, we dump them and keep fishing for the good ones," says Steiner. " If we're not getting the type of calls we'd like, we restate the question on the air to attract the type of calls we want."

"The criteria are: passion, clarity (in voice and thought), originality, and will the caller forward the topic?" said Travis Box, a veteran producer, now a manager at Fisher.

The most important thing about callers is their ability to speak quickly, clearly, and well. "I get people to articulate what they are going to say," says Nole, "and more clear about what their point is."

"You may have a great point to make,"said TomF. "But if you're long-winded, heavily accented or otherwise hard to understand, contentious to the point of being tiresome, likely to freeze in fear, or simply say "uhhhh" too often, you won't get on."

Sometimes listeners are passionate when they call, but will lose it on hold. They need a "fluffer" to get them riled up again. Producers fluff them up. Boze says, "There's always a danger they'll unload their passion on the call screener—that’s why I never want to hear their whole comment prior to the air."

"I never liked winding people up off-air," says Burbank, "but I did always tell them to be as energetic as possible. And to not ask the host how they are doing. That happens on like 99% of all calls into a radio show."

Burbank always tried, when he produced, to get listeners to find the personal angle. "The guy who calls because he disagrees with affirmative actions is boring. That same guy, who hates affirmative action because it cost his brother a spot on the diving team, which led him to become an alcoholic male prostitute. Now that’s interesting."

He'd always ask people why they had the opinions they had.

Not everyone likes answering the phones. Boze: "Call screening is frequently like Chinese Water Torture. You hear the same mistakes, jokes, insults, comments over and over again. It’s fun at first, but it really wears on you. After a couple of years, it becomes excruciating."

And it can be a little scary, talk radio attracts the hardcore bewildered, and the chronically pissed off. Surely one of the earliest symptoms of insanity is to call in to a talk show, says a producer.

"I've been threatened twice since I've worked here," says Tina Nole. (Nole presently has a mentally ill woman threatening her that KIRO's had to call the cops about). "I'm at fault because I spend too much time with those people. I try to talk them down, try to reason with them. You finally have to say: you're creepy and you're done."

Stephanie Rose says, "Lou [Pate] and I had angry listeners meet us in the parking lot after work."

Crazy callers, boring callers, amen-ing callers- all are a hundred times better than no callers.

According to Box- sometimes it’s the day, sometimes it’s the topic, and sometimes it’s the host. "At those times you learn to adjust on the fly, adapt the way you are presenting the topic, pump up your host or, if all else fails…bail out and go to a different topic."

Hosts especially, are nervous when there's no calls. "Callers are an emotional outlet... they give you affirmation that you’re being listened to," says Dave Boze.

"No matter how long a host's been doing it, and how polished they are- they all live in fear of not having any calls," says Burbank. "That’s why they give the number out like 80 times per hour."

We've all heard insecure hosts who implore the callers, don't ever leave me! According to Burbank: "If you hear a host say, “John Jim and Rick, we’ll get to you after this break” it means they are really, really scared. They’re trying to make sure those guys don’t hang up during the commercials."

The national Ed Schultz Show (KPTK, m-f, 12-3p) is one of the few shows in America who doesn't screen calls. (notable exception: Coast to Coast with George Noory) Producer James Holm says, " When he started out, Ed used to literally pick up the phone and say, "Ed Schultz," not knowing what a person's name was or from where they were calling. Now we say what's your name, where are you calling from, turn your radio off. We're the closest thing to a reality show in talk radio."

There is a slight movement in the business toward callerless shows, but that doesn't seem to be on the horizon anytime soon.
~
Read The Producers, Part 1 here.

Stay tuned for The Producers, Part Four: gettin' the "gets," the celebs, and the (shudder) paycheck

Comments

[Duffman]

I find this interesting. Even tho I'm not one who calls in to talk shows, I do listen to them and quite frankly I'm surprised to find out that they are so 'manipulated'. I thought (I guess naively) that the spontaneity of the callers pretty much generated the flow of the show; but obviously not. Nice to know!

[Brian]

I wonder what Styblehead would do ! hooty hoo ! Let's Getter Done! One of many Stybleheads crap crew

[joanie]

I agree. This is kind of disappointing. I suspected some shows over the years of manipulation but not most.

Also, Larry King - a long time ago - didn't screen either. His shows (radio) were always interesting. Isn't that supposed to be one of the talents of the host - handling calls and callers?

I'm wondering how perfect some of these producers really think they are. I enjoy hearing the choir and hearing opposing views. Don't mind when people agree - that's sometimes why I listen to the damn radio. To hear concurring opinions.

If things get too contentious, I might turn it off. Contentiousness with intelligence is okay. But, contentiousness for the sake of itself drives me away.

I guess these people all know what they are doing. But radio isn't doing so good in the main so maybe these people need to take themselves a little less seriously and let people talk.

Interesting for sure, Michael.

[markb]

Jesus, who are these people? can't figure out, who they're manipulating more, the host, the listeners or the callers. I like Schultz's way- its come what (who) may and democratic, more like life. Most of these self-inflated talk hosts couldn't handle such a thing. Maybe all this fine-tuning and manipulation of the audience is putting the finishing touches on the medium. Something is...

[sparky]

on KPTK, any caller who wants to disagree with Stephanie Miller or Randi Rhodes gets put to the very front of the line of callers. Same with Ed Shultz. Same with Bernie Ward and Ray Taliafero on KGO....

[rodman]

A correction/clarificaton about Coast to Coast AM with George Noory -- it's Art Bell, the show's founder and present weekend host, who doesn't and never has screened calls. George Noory uses a staff of screeners like any other host.

Since his move to the Philippines last spring, even Art Bell has had to resort to screeners, mainly because the cost of running that many phone lines to the Philippines would have been prohibitive. He's recently moved back to Parumph, NV, and is still using screeners apparently until they get the phone lines reconnected.

Hopefully, the screeners will be gone soon. Art's style of handling callers with no producer or screener is a standard to be emulated by the talk radio industry. Let's see Rush and Medved and Dori do open lines Art Bell style -- no limiting of topics, no screener, no advance warning what the caller's going to talk about. I imagine they'd have quite a hard time coping.

[Steve]

Art is back in the USA? I loved listening to him. He would get kooks on the air that would make Joanie look normal. And that UFO business, Seven, and John Titor is what great talk radio is all about.

Unlike AA where you have the same stuff from say 5 different host. And I mean the same rhetoric. If you missed something on the young Jerks at 5am, you can tune in at 9pm to to hear about on Randi's show at as if it was written down for all them. Must be the same producer for all their shows. What a farce.

[Al Franken]

Glad you're listening Steve,you right-wing phoney.

[mark]

Phoney or not, Steve has a point. Good article Bla'M, I learned quite a bit.

[P1SternFan]

Steves point is useless.. Consider Air America's format.. They lean left and can be predictable, but if you look at the BIG picture, consider the number of Right Wing talk Radio shows(Local & National shows) being broadcast throught out the country.. in every market,in every state and you will find they outnumber liberal talk radio 10 to 1.. That is very very lopsided in there preaching of hate and intolerance, not to mention how much of the Talk Radio audience is bombarded on a daily basis on how Liberals and Democrats suck and are RUINING America! So when Right wing Fucks like to Blab about how Air America is failing and Bankrupt.. there is NO consideration of how Air America is completly OUTNUMBERED. Oh.. Alan Colmes radio show.. (# 1 in my book) does NOT screen his callers either and exposes the Fucking Stupid "Hannitized" callers who call in all pissed off at Liberals. Makes Great Radio!

[SR]

Rodman,

I have to personally disagree with you. I believe open lines is a cop out. It's radio for people who can't spend an hour on only 1 topic. And it's a bore for listeners. It may be really fun for that one guy who gets on and gets to talk about whatever he wants, but for everyone just listening who doesn't call (the other 99% of the audience) it's flat out boring.

Open lines is phoning it in. It's not taking the time to really think about different angles on a story. It's not taking the time to even find a story worthy of dedicating an hour to. And trust me, there are plenty of stories like that - you just have to search them out.

Just my thoughts.

[joanie]

Open lines but on a topic . . . don't listen to Art Bell much but aren't his shows usually on aliens (as in outer space?) or something similar?

I don't like screening. I don't think you'd get a lot of crackpots but if you do, speaks to the quality of the program and the host. I think of radio as public squares . . . but if all is manipulated, then radio is just another side show.

Kind of disappointing.

[Duffman]

Lo ciento mucho, I agree!!!

[Liz]

Our CBC radio programs not only screen calls, but they screen them to the extent that in their politically correct fashion, they take on "pro" and then one "con" caller for whatever topic they feature.

They also make sure that the callers are geographically dispersed evenly (national talk radio)

[Tina Nole]

We have limited time on our programs to include every caller. Essentially it's our job to keep the converstaion flowing and interesting. If I didn't screen out calls you would hear pot smoking Daryll, conspiracy theorist Dick and Mertyl with her giant great dane in Auburn for 20 minutes of every hour. The first thing you would do if you had to sit through.."um, well I ahhhh, ummmm Dave is stupid..and uhh well uhhhh" ...is turn off your radio.

AND - have you ever been to a forum or public speech where there is an open microphone? Most recently I went to see Barack Obama, he took open calls. He had time for about 2- one of which was "I love you" followed by 5 minutes of applause. Huge waste of time.

Generally we do our best to include every interesting voice that has something to contribute to the conversation whether it be to agree or disagree. They simply have to be sane and articulate as far as I'm concerned.

To the "taking ourselves seriously comments"...really? Not me. I sit in a tini tiny sound proof room for 4 hours everyday listening to the show, eating popcorn and drinking tea. Nothing glamourous or serious there...mostly I just get in trouble for leaving kernels all over the studio. I know my place on the totem poll and should I forget, I have something called a paycheck that comes around every once in a while to remind me.

In the end I love my job, it's fun and interesting and I'm lucky enough to spend my days with some incredibly amazing people.

So, call in-give it a try and I might not hang up on you.
Tina M. Nole
Producer
The Dave Ross Show
The Ron Reagan Show
Tom Douglas' Seattle Kitchen
Newsradio 710 KIRO

[maryellen]

Tina: you are the best. always enjoy it when those guys give you a chance to speak. When are you getting a show of your own? didn't know you produced Tom Douglas- there's ego there, Dave & Ron can't touch!

[sparky]

Darryll 420 still calls in, huh...heh. I wonder how he affords to have a phone...he must be charging extra for doobies these days....

[Don Evans]

Tina- we love hearing you on the air, and enjoy your blog. it's a great read, when you get around to it. I know you're busy, but you could make a great living being a blogger and put the blatherer out of business. :)
ditto on Douglas. he's such a know it all, He's the Brian Styble of food. bet he's hard to work for.

[joanie]

I like Tom Douglas. I think he's kind of a regular guy.

I still think a host should be able to finesse a caller. No one has to listen to absurdity. And I've heard good hosts who can do it. . . they've been referenced on this blog.

Also, I've heard Dick on other stations (Tom Hartmann) and he doesn't spout just conspiracy theories. He's well read and often furthers the conversation. Also, I've never heard him actually on for long . . . pretty much gets handled just like the other callers.

Sorry, accolades but not from me.

[HATE Speech Against Filipinos by ART BELL, a HOAX!]

To all Filipinos who are still receiving the alleged hate speech that was written by radio talk show host Art Bell, please disregard it. It was a big mistake done by the Philippine Daily Inquirer to post the hate speech against Filipinos on their website because there is no truth in it. Later on, as Inq7.net realized that the news was a hoax, they've posted an apology on their website. For the full length of the article read e-hoax and e-scams.

If you haven't received the HOAX HATE SPEECH AGAINST FILIPINOS, check out for yourself. You can check for my previous posts or you can click here!

[Rich]

I would love to hear Tina as a guest on Phil's show