Run, stefan, run... UPDATED

Ace-boom Seattle Republican blogger, Stefan Sharkansky, left the tea leaves in the bottom of his cup, Thursday, for all to read.

Unless our political headlights have totally dimmed, we'd say Sharkansky is considering running for Seattle City Council against Peter Steinbrueck.

In a short post asking his readers to opine about which of the council members running next year are most vulnerable, he does a little opining himself.

Personally, I would be least inclined to challenge Della, who has displayed more fiscal responsibility and common sense than anybody else running this season. I think that Steinbrueck is the worst member of the Council and also probably the most vulnerable. He's made a fool of himself with his ill-conceived anti-automobile crusade (while himself driving more than anybody else on the Council). At this writing he has the smallest campaign chest of everybody excluding Clark, who just had a campaign. But that's just me.

It's just him, all right- you don't have to be Joel Connelly to read between those lines- and subtleness (different than stuffiness) is an attribute that Stefan's never been accused of.

Although when we last were in his threads, there was no acclamation from the loyal polloi for him to run- however, we'd love to see The Shark run for something in Seattle.

He's been groomed by the Party for some time; he's the darling of downtown retail Republicans; the BIAW; and toyboy on Republican Radio (KKOL Saturdays 10a to 12p; Sundays 5-7p).

Stefan and his bloggers are the local media's pet Republicans. In the dearth of such animals locally, and because Stefan et al aren't mouth breathers or holy rollers, their form of conservatism is nearly palatable when the liberal Seattle media needs a token R that won't scare the horses. Shark and Matt Rosenberg have an entrepreneurial venture called "Rent-a-Reactionary" that provides conservatives for bar mitzvahs, weddings, or any event with need of piňatas.

Unfortunately, getting elected in Seattle would be considerably more difficult than being Mr. Republican for the cameras and talk radio.

Having had their asses handed to them in the last couple of elections, wetside R's are a collection of snappish retailers and rain-stippled complainers, hating everything about the city in which they live and impotent to do anything about it except kvetch.

This kvetching's well-exhibited over at Sound Politics; as it always is, after another election where the victories were Pyrrhic and the Republican caucusii were shrunk once again.

The usual crowd are flogging the coulda-shoulda-wouldas and putting up brave faces and puffing that Republicans could win in Seattle if they only had a decent candidate.

After all, Steve Berens got 15% of the vote against McDermott and he doesn't even have a personality.

Stefan hasn't been put to the test of a candidacy, but he's left a slime trail in other endeavors that more than one reporter or Democratic activist would love to expose if he should ever stick out his neck.

It'd be funner'n an erection at a quilting bee. 

(Rumors have always flown that he and his blog are subsidized by the GOP or one of their sugar pockets. We know that's not true because we got reamed by Irene Song, Stefan's fierce feminist wife, an insurance company attorney, and certified Asian who blasted us in print for being sexist and racist, because we didn't grok that he does the cookin' honey, SHE pays the rent). 

Stefan has come a long way in a short time in local politics- which says less about him than it does about the size and psyche of a disheartened and downtrodden Republican party.

State R's have many more battles to come in the decades-old war within their ranks. The social conservatives still have plenty of clout in the grass roots, and also as some parliamentary skills that have served them well in state conventions and platform committees. There is plenty of pressure by the plegiosaurian Republican roots for a turn back to the right after the 2006 disaster of such "liberal" and (shudder) "pragmatic" candidates such as the hapless Mike McGavick.

That fight alone should see to it that the party is sidelined for at least another cycle or three.

As for Seattle busting Peter Steinbrueck and electing a Republican- that's not going to happen- not even for a socially liberal househubby with a liberated wife with sharp teeth and a great paycheck.   

Comments

[LARGE LEON]

Stefan talks and walks like he's got a load in his pants. He would be the most unlikely, worst candidate imaginable. Only in Seattle would a Republican like him even be considered to run for anything. Doubt even his feminazi wife would support him.

[santa]

Rosenbaum is nearly normal. He even writes about little crackers and warm, buttery things--surely he could run in Seattle- on his knowledge of cheese if nothing else. There is a certain madness in his eyes that someone like Brett Bader could cultivate.

[lukobe]

Why doesn't he run against Sally Clark instead?

I think we could use a non-Dem on the City Council...but I doubt it will ever happen...and if it's going to be anyone, I doubt it'll be Sharkansky.

Linnea Noreen for Seattle City Council!! :)

[joanie]

Why do you label, Lukobe? You seem to be all about labels.

I think of myself as independent because I vote the credentials, values and beliefs people bring.

You tout Noreen even though you couldn't tell me what her platform was. I'm guessing you now know.

[FREMONT]

This does NOT include you, Joans, but I've met several people recently who call themselves "independent" because they can't validate the "credentials, values and beliefs" of either position with facts. They don't want to "take sides", lest they be asked to support that side with knowledge.

[joanie]

I agree with you, Fremont. They can't make up their minds because there's nothing in them . . . which makes all that money spent on last-minute media so scary.

BTW, were you practicing your Espanol or surfing the Big Sur?

[lukobe]

Joanie: your evidence for me being all about labels? Oh--and let's not get into the Noreen thing again. I knew what her platform was then and I know what it is now, and I'm not going to explain to you again why I just gave you URLs at the time.

I vote the credentials, values and beliefs people bring.

That's good, Joanie. But really--would you have voted for McGavick if somehow his credentials, values, and beliefs more aligned with yours than did Cantwell's, even if that would have given the Republicans the Senate?

[KS]

Hopefully, he doesn't run. He would be wasting his energy - like any Repub who runs against McDimwitt for Congress. Stefan would fit in better in Bellevue or any other non-leftwing ideologue municipality.

You folks in Seattle deserve who you elect, hey -how about that escalating cost of living ? for what in turn ?- Light rail fluff and maybe even a $4billion + tunnel in place of the viaduct and maybe a carbon tax in the name of looking good to Europe and the rest of the PC world - woohoo !

[Mike Barer]

I would love for Sheransky to run. The city council needs a little diversity. There needs to be a representation of residence who aren't on the far left. Maybe then the council members can learn the art of compromise.

[joanie]

No, Lukobe, you didn't. You couldn't even give a hint. When you're discussing issues or people, you have to be able to provide something substantial or you have no substance in your arsenal. You didn't have a clue. Not one. Even your answer included your own deferral to her website.

You may know now . . . but I'm not placing any bets on it.

If Mike! had the credientials, values and beliefs I hold, I doubt he would be a Republican or anywhere on the right.

A more reasonable and logical premise is would I vote Green if it meant giving Congress to the Republicans- esp. this Republican Congress . No. In 1996. I voted Green because I wasn't happy with Clinton. I don't like his views on trade policy. But, I had the luxury of knowing it would remain on the left.

But in 2000, I didn't even consider a Green vote with Bush as the Republican candidate. My vote is always between the candidates which best represent me. The Democrats reflect my views and the Greens reflect my views. I think the Dems have lost their way and are in the pockets of big money. But, they certainly aren't as diametrically opposed to me as the Right.

You see, it is a thoughtful choice and one not dependent upon labels but on philosophy. If and when the Republicans or Libertarians reflect my views, I'll vote for them.

I think you try to make things simple and I think you have a romance with labels. You're infatuated with Rand and you like the feeling of independence claiming to be a libertarian gives you.

Actually, I like being a Green for that reason as well. I am very earth-oriented and socially-oriented and I like that image for myself. But, I also ardently love the goals of the Green Party and wish I could give single person on this planet a pill that would induce caring, sharing and respect for all living things.

[adc]

Joanie, that pill would be the demise of the Republican party.

And Bellevue is "non-leftwing" now, KS? I believe the eastside is sending all D's to the statehouse next year, with the exception of one lone R from Kirkland.

I think the only Cascade-West R's who have a good shot at future state-wide office, are Rob McKenna, Reagan Dunn, and Dino Rossi.

It's a shame that voters really don't have two party's to choose from in this state, but the R's shot themselves in the foot with poor leadership, poor candidates, and their hypocritical moralizing.

Sheriff Goodhair should have had a cake walk, instead he fought for his political life against an unknown, with no political experience. That speaks volumes of where the eastside is politically.

[joanie]

OMG! Did I leave the italycs on? Michael will have me guillotined! Turn off . . . turn off . . . turn off Please!

[joanie]

Whew! It works!

[joanie]

Republicans: Be Gone!

I'm afraid there is still enough selfishness and lust for power and money to sustain a Republican Party.

But, things did look up this last election.

[KS]

Bring on the Libertarians ! I actually liked Gentry Lange, who is a Green.

[KS]

adc - I can't disagree with your analysis of the pathetic state of the Republican Party in this state.

In reality, the Eastside - is middle of the road, with a slight edge to the R's, as evidenced by Reichert's win over Marcy Burner. The bad year for Repubs and the weakness of the Demo candidate cancel each other out. Yeah, Esser and Nixon lost at the State level, but that will change by 2010 - not so sure about 2008, because of the current Administration on a path of self-destruction, much to the chagrin of an increasing number of Republicans, who are listening to the dissatisfaction of their constituents. If the Dems win President in 2008, they will likely repel enough voters by 2010 - case and point Clinton elected in 1992 - Repub sweep in 1994.

[Steve]

Joan said:

"I'm afraid there is still enough selfishness and lust for power and money to sustain a Republican Party."

You didn't say it and I know you are smart enough to know that is not limited to the GOP, or this State.

I read (I can't recall the source at this time)that Dims out number the Repubs in millionaires in Congress. It was amusing to watch how the Dims had to quit using the term "Party of Corruption" when discussing the GOP.

Their Congressmen from LA and VA have some explaining to do, and should join Duke Cunningham with a membership in a very exclusive club. The GOP should be having a heyday with them but they don't have the balls. They should be calling for Sandy Berger to go to the wall, but again no testes.

Also appears like Pelosi and Dean learned well from your King Co Exec in the proper way to attempt to overthrow a popular vote (FL).

The FBI files Hillary has must be full of delicious morsels that keep the hounds at bay.

42 is busy screwing a neighbor in their NY neighborhood, and it will be interesting to see what part he plays in the porcines campaigne.

Hillary/Obama?

McCain/Graham?

My God, what choices :(

Merry Christmas.

[joanie]

Steve, if you read my post above and if you've read previous posts in which I name Alcee Hastings and Jefferson, you wouldn't spend time alluding to them as if you're the first to talk about the Dems.

If you read my post above, you will also know what I do have problems with the Dems. If you read previous posts, you would know that I'm angry with Pelz who censored Hong Tran's voice in the primary.

Perhaps what separates us, is that I am willing to name and blame my own when I think they are wrong. And I think they are very, very wrong.

But, I am one of the minority of people who still have some idealism and think that the game should be open to everybody and all points of view. You are still playing the blame game.

I want the best regardless of who they are or where the come from.

Don't you?

As for choices? Edwards/Obama; Kucinich/Obama; as for others, I haven't studied enough to know who I would vote for. I can tell you right now I'd vote for Christine Gregoire if she should run for president. But, I know you'll find reasons to blast her. Save your time.

If there is another Paul Wellstone out there, I'd vote for him (or her).

Geez, I hope you are not suggesting that either McCain or Graham are uncorruptable. That would blow any and all credibility you have me right out the window.

[Steve]

Joan said:

"Geez, I hope you are not suggesting that either McCain or Graham are uncorruptable. "

McCain is insane and Graham is a flaming pussy. I have a friend in SC that was a big, big money supporter of Graham, and suddenly she has hit the off switch on him. I have been carping toher her for several years that he is a phoney pole smoker and she finally got confirmation. I wouldn't piss on either mcCain or Graham if they were on fire.

Cunningham got what he deserved and any and all like him from any party deserve justice. I won't defend any of them that have strayed. Give them their day in court and if guilty-to the wall. Ihad the opportunity to meet with cunningham and some retired flag officer and Boeing officials to discuss some veterans programs. he was interesting and one of three Aces from VN. What a waste.

I haven't read all your posts, so accept my apology if I have erred in my previous post.

I am NOT a GOP member. I am very conservative but will vote for whom I think will best serve the country. I don't feel the Gov or Kucinich are what this country needs. They won't be on the ballot of the Dims, so that won't be a concern.
The GOP have no rising stars that I can identify. I like what little I know of Duncan Hunter, but that will take some more exploration. Romney is interesting. Guliana is a dichotomy in my view. Lot of likes/dislikes. Newt is by far the most savy of all of the potential candidates-but just as inflammatory as the Red Diesel.

But hey, tomorrow is another news day. Who knows?

Going to Las Vegas 25-31 Dec, then to the cabin 01-04.

Enjoy your vacation, Teacher.

[joanie]

Steve, Thanks for a friendly and interesting post but why did you have to resort to "Dims" when "Dems" could have done?

Newt is waaaay too savvy. He is a master manipulator and proved to be dishonest as well. He is an opportunist who doesn't deliver, read "Contract with America."

Guliani - another Bush if you ask me. Kind of a bully. Perhaps little smoother - not so folksy - but still I don't trust him.

Romney . . . could actually be a Republican that I might like. What I know about him I like. But, I have a lot to learn. Gov of a very liberal state - he might be that one Republican who reflects some of my Democratic values.

Hope you win big in Vegas and have a restful and peaceful stay at the cabin. You'll enjoy a white Christmas I do believe. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Oh, and God Bless all coyotes!

[KS]

I notice that you have not brought up Hillary Clinton, whereas Steve did - why is that ? Being knowledgable as you are, if you say that if you can't trust Guiliani - I'd say you certainly cannot trust Hillary ! She is the least trustworthy of any candidate on the horizon, but it would be sickening if someone like her with her character flaws were elected. I am suscipious though that you would favor her, Joanie - since you are a fan of the current Gov. - say it ain't so...

I would not vote for McCain and would be hard pressed to vote for Rudy, but could go for Romney. Obama may be the bomb for the Dems - if he runs, he's a good communicator but his ideology is too liberal but would prefer him over Hillary all day long.

[sparky]

I dont know a single Lib who likes Hillary. The media is the one who tells everyone how much we adore her.

[joanie]

Gee, Klueless, neither Steve nor I brought up Tom Vilsack, Sam Brownback, Chuck Hagel, Joe Biden, John Kerry or Bill Richardson either. I wonder why . . .

What a schmuck you are.

[mercifurious]

Tell me something KS. After O'Reilly said this (re: his big-bad France Boycott):

"They've (France)lost billions of dollars in France according to "The Paris Business Review."
('Paris Business Review' does not exist)

Why should anyone believe him about anything?

[joanie]

Sparky, she has well-placed supporters who will keep her name floated and bloated as they say. I'm thinking Carville for one . . .

[joanie]

It's sure hard to find a good merlot. Should have bought a case from the Big Pine Winery before it went out of business . . .

[sparky]

Joanie, thats my point...she needs handlers to keep her name out there, instead of being popular because people actually like her.

If you want a really good wine that is better than merlot, look for a bottle of Marietta Old Vine Red.
They have it at Cost Plus, Hagens/Top Foods, Safeway, etc. but its sometimes hard to find because there is a growing cadre of us who have discovered it and buy it all up when it hits the shelves. Larry's Market or Queen Ann Thriftway may carry it too.

The winery is in Napa, and it was first planted in the 1880's. They use a variety of red grapes to make this wine and it is SPECTACULAR..and its only $11 at Cost Plus/World Market.

Their website is pretty interesting too.

[joanie]

KS, am rereading your post and have some thoughts.

I've never thought Hillary would be a good candidate. Too much baggage from the Clinton years first of all.

Also, she's more of a hawk than I am. I wasn't for the war; I'm not now for continuing the war; and I sure as hell want to get out immediately and negotiate with Iran. No more wars.

I actually think she is better than Guliani. I think he's got the macho mentality and we've had enough of that. I do think she'd bring in some very good ideas on the domestic side.

Is she similar to Gregoire? I don't know. You seem to hate Gregoire and I don't know why. I hate Bush and I know why. He's a sociopathic bully. But, other than just throwing bombs at her every time her name comes up, I've never heard why you all don't like her.

Regarding Hillary, you claim character flaws . . . what are they? Why is she the least trustworthy?

Sorry I dissed you so bad, KS. I think you were seriously trying to engage. I'm pretty used to coming at you, aren't I?

Merry Christmas Eve, KS.

[joanie]

And Michael, if you're still up cooking, go to bed! I wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas Eve as well.

And Merry everything to all the rest of my fellow bloggers on Blather. . . I love you all!

[Tommy008]

The Rosie/thedonald feud is part of the media, so i guess it can be aired here. just a thought- do you see how nasty and out of control thedonald's comments are about Rosie after her nasty cracks? I don't paRTICULARLY CARE FOR Rosie but i think the media is missing the real source of his rage. Sure he was mad at the other mean remarks, but did you notice right at the end of the clip, somewhat covered p by laughter and applause but still fairly clear she says "he's not a selfmade man at all." Unlike the media i think he noticed the crack, and this is REALLY what steamed him- because it's true. He never actually says he's a selfmade man, but he likes to give that impression with his books, flamboyant public persona, etc. I think he cynically banks on the fact that most people who eat up his books and such assume he's a selfmade man, and won't go beyond the image to do the research. Trump's father died around 1975 , leaving him 30 million in inheritance and also the seat as CEO of his father's company The Trump Organization. Trump says he's worth 5 bilion- others have put his worth at a tiny fraction of that. I trust Forbes, who puts his net worth at 2.9 bllion. That 30 year performance, 30 million to 2.9 billion, is equivalent to turning 10,000 dollars to 970,000 over 30 years. A respectable investment return, but hardly the stuff of financial geniuses, and superstars, which Trump wants us to believe he is. He's done a workmanlike, respectable job of investing his father's inheritance.

[Steve]

Joan said of Hillary:

"I do think she'd bring in some very good ideas on the domestic side."

Joan can you expound on what you feel she may bring to the doemstic side other than socialised health care that will put the little guy out of buisness?

In short-I feel she is evil and dangerous. She will let nothing get in her way at her chance of coronation. She is in for a surprisingly rough ride if she runs. It will be interesting to watch the MSM continue their protection of her that would make the SS envious.

Some of her quotes give reason for pause.

"Many of you are well enough off that the tax cuts may have helped you. We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

a response to a question of how small businesses could afford her health care plan and her answer was:
"I can't be bothered about under-capitalized companies".

You f***ing Jew b*stard
(said to Paul Fray during a row at the end of the campaign in Arkansas, 1974)

"I can't recall." her most often used answer during testimony.

"I'm not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers We are the president." Wonder if "we" will still be operative if she is elected?

"If I want to knock a story off the front page, I just change my hairstyle."

"The American people are tired of liars and people who pretend to be something they're not".

I am particularly horrified by the use of propaganda and the manipulation of the truth and the revision of history

"You know, I'm going to start thanking the woman who cleans the restroom in the building I work in. I'm going to start thinking of her as a human being" -Hillary Clinton (how nice of you Hillary)

One of my fvorites as my son is a Secret Service Agent:

"Hillary on the Secret Service:"[We] have nothing but praise for their courage, integrity and professionalism, and we feel lucky to remain friends with the many agents who protected us."

"If you want to remain on this detail, get your a** over here and grab those bags." (To an agent who wanted to keep his hands free in case of a security threat.)

You can take it to the bank that she has no friends within the SS.

Hillary on Living in Arkansas: "I had never before lived in a place so small, so friendly and Southern, and I loved it. I went to Arkansas Razorback football games and learned to call the hogs."

"This is the kind of s*** I have to put up with." (To a friend after a Clinton supporter gave her a pair of Arkansas Razorback earrings.)

She used a White House gov employee to help with her run for senate. When questioned by a reporter about using it. She said something like " It's ok, electing me is for the good of the country".

"It's been said, and I think it's accurate, that my husband was obsessed by terrorism in general and al-Qaida in particular." Oh really?

"I have to admit that a good deal of what my husband and I have learned [about Islam] has come from our daughter." Sounds like Carter explaining his nuclear strategy talks with Amy.

"Why do I have to keep proving to people that I am not a liar?"

"Son of a bitch."

(Hillary's opinion of President George W. Bush when she found out he secretly visited Iraq just days before her highly publicized trip to Iraq; "American Evita," p. 259, by Christopher Anderson.)

What are you doing inviting these people into my home? These people are our enemies! They are trying to destroy us!"

(Hillary's reaction to an aide, when she found out that some Republicans had been invited to the Clinton White House, circa 1993; "The Survivor," p. 99, by John Harris.)

"Come on Bill, put your dick up. You can't **** her here."

(Hillary to Gov. Clinton when she spots him talking with an attractive female at an Arkansas political rally; "Inside The White House," p. 243, by Ronald Kessler.)

(Hillary to Gov. Clinton when she spots him talking with an attractive female at an Arkansas political rally; "Inside The White House," p. 243, by Ronald Kessler.)

"You sold out, you mother******! You sold out."

(While an intern on Capitol Hill, Hillary Rodham yells at a prominent Democrat lawyer because he was representing someone from a large, profit-driven corporation; "Inside," p. 213, by Joseph Califano.)

"These women are all trash. No one will believe them."
(Hillary's opinion of women who claimed a relationship with her husband: p 69."from I have Always Been a Yankee Fan")

"You all remember Mahatma Ghandi. He ran a gas station down in St. Louis."
(Hillary at a fundraiser: p 94.I have Always Been a Yankee Fan")

"She's a short, Irish bitch."
(On columnist Maureen Dowd: p 93. SAB)

[KS]

Sigh of Relief ! I am glad that none of you are Hillary supporters. Merry Christmas eve back at ya, Joanie - in spite of the heated exchanges and differing views, you bring valid points to the table.

As for Gregoire, I disliked her because of the way she seemingly manipulated the election results in '04, which seemed Hillary-like. However, there have been some things that she has done which have been OK, like not buying in on the Tunnel replacement for the viaduct. How she manages the upcoming budget will be a key indicator. Maybe Dino should not run in '08 if she becomes more popular and fiscally conservative. Lastly, I would be most relieved if Ron Sims did not seek another term in office.

[Tommy008]

On the other hand Rosie, from my research, appears to come from an at best slightly upper middle class background in Queens, thedonalds's hometown as well. Let's assume Rosie started out wiht 10,000 in 1982 roughly the time she dropped out of college to go into show business. she had made mostly all her show business money by the time her tv show was cancelled in 2002 so that gives her only twenty years as opposed to The Donald's 30 to make her fortune. She turned her 10,000 into probably at least 10 million, by 2002, just guessing from her movies, tv shows, etc. And im probably lowballing it. Her tv talk show was on about six years and she must have gotten at least 1-2 million a year for that for six years. So if Rosie is a disgusting loudmouth, which i think she is, we at least have to give the loudmouth her due, versus the equally disgusting thedonald.

[Fremont]

Joans, I love your Edwards/Obama, Kucinich/Obama platform...and Edwards is announcing today. (Estaba enferma...no vaccacion).
St.Eve to Joans "...can you expound on what you feel she may bring to the doemstic side other than socialised health care that will put the little guy out of buisness?" If Clinton can bring an inclusive, affordable health care agenda to us, she has my vote. " Socialized" health care wil not put you out of business, poor baby....it will make health care available and affordable for everyone. Perhaps, your profits will be taxed at a higher rate than the health of your employees...alas!

[joanie]

Isn't it something, Fremont, how little these people understand the economics of socially-conscience business practices.

Steve, why do you think car manufacturers are still manufacturing cars in Canada? They understand the economics of universal healthcare. It is cheaper for them. You listen to sound bites more than you think and learn about issues.

That has been especially obvious to me ever since you made known your choice to listen to a bunch of bitter liars rather than the guys who actually served with John Kerry. You are an easy target for conservative media types and hype. . .

Also, where'd the Clinton screwing his neighbor come from?

One more thing, where did you get all those Hillary quotes? You use a pretty salty vocabulary on this blog sometimes - so do I. She's not allowed? If I listened in to your conversation, I'd never hear anything judgmental or unflattering?

I think you have a double standard where women are concerned . . . to bad for an educated man to think this way. If you choose to dislike/hate Hillary, that's fine with me. But, I prefer to judge her on her politics and not her personal life.

[Fremont]

Well said, Joans!

Whoa!! My inner Capricorn is telling me to prepare for a natal day that cometh not from a virgin.....it's getting louder!

[lukobe]

One more thing, where did you get all those Hillary quotes? You use a pretty salty vocabulary on this blog sometimes - so do I. She's not allowed? If I listened in to your conversation, I'd never hear anything judgmental or unflattering?

He ain't running for the highest office in the land, though, and neither is anyone else on this blog, AFAIK... :)

Lukobe, back from a few days in Spokane

[lukobe]

No, Lukobe, you didn't. You couldn't even give a hint. When you're discussing issues or people, you have to be able to provide something substantial or you have no substance in your arsenal. You didn't have a clue. Not one. Even your answer included your own deferral to her website.

Thanks for the tip, Joanie. Find me anyone else here who agrees with you and then we'll talk.

You may know now . . . but I'm not placing any bets on it.

But do you think it should be legal for you to do so? :)

If Mike! had the credientials, values and beliefs I hold, I doubt he would be a Republican or anywhere on the right.

Perhaps not these days, but in days past...?

A more reasonable and logical premise is would I vote Green if it meant giving Congress to the Republicans- esp. this Republican Congress . No. In 1996. I voted Green because I wasn't happy with Clinton. I don't like his views on trade policy. But, I had the luxury of knowing it would remain on the left.

So you DO take party affiliations into account, and don't just vote the candidate's philosophy. That's what I thought (and that's what I do, too--hence why most of my votes go to Democrats.)

You see, it is a thoughtful choice and one not dependent upon labels but on philosophy. If and when the Republicans or Libertarians reflect my views, I'll vote for them.

I do see! Thank you for enlightening me. :) You seem to be as obsessed with my supposed label-obsession as you think I'm obsessed with labels. Kinda funny...

I think you try to make things simple and I think you have a romance with labels. You're infatuated with Rand and you like the feeling of independence claiming to be a libertarian gives you.

Rand? When did I ever mention Rand? And if I did, how on earth do you get the idea I'm infatuated with her? Methinks you're painting with a bit of a broad brush here. And perhaps engaging in assumptions?

And let's not talk about making things simple--I think that is happening all the time on this board and I don't think I'm the main culprit. Oh, and by the way--I came to my libertarianism gradually and through lots of exploration--I didn't come to it because I was searching for a feeling.

Actually, I like being a Green for that reason as well. I am very earth-oriented and socially-oriented and I like that image for myself. But, I also ardently love the goals of the Green Party and wish I could give single person on this planet a pill that would induce caring, sharing and respect for all living things.

So it would be OK with you if your accusation about my libertarianism were actually true? Good to know.

About that pill--would you force it on people, or would you leave it up to them? :)