Things don't look so good for anybody in the latest 12+ ratings book.
Over the summer, only 11 stations out of the 33, improved their status, none more than a 10th or so of a percentil
Newstalk stations, except Air America's KPTK took a bath. (We were pretty happy about that- they even overtook KVI this time. But hell, so did Entercom's KTTH, whose demise we've predicted many times).
The most significant growth was country music KMPS's climb back into the number one spot after being booted for a few books by the heavily marketed KKWF. But even that great victory was only a .5% share improvement.
Radio looks as if it's going the way of such still-staggering mediasaurs as video rentals, magazines, television stations and newspapers.
This is not a Seattle phenom- the trend's national, and not restricted to talk radio- it's radio across the board. Stock prices of the five largest publicly traded radio companies have dived between 30 and 60 percent in the last three years.There's no sign as to when the industry will bottom out.
Why is this happening? Some of it is because there are lots of audio alternatives now and people are taking them.
Options like streaming audio, podcasting, iPods, and satellite radio. These media are commercial-free (or nearly so) and do the niche programming that audiences expect to be served-up these days.
When NPR ratings are listed in these surveys (starting with the
Fall book) look for an even more realistic picture of what's happening
to commercial radio.
The fat (they have money, and they're a large blip in the population) 18-30 year-old demographic doesn't listen to the radio, and never really has. Radio is just not only unhip, with so much of its hypermanic sound styles unchanged since the 1950's; it's clogged with ads, doesn't serve their specific interests, and the sound quality is wanting. (These young people are more audio-sophisticated than any mass audience has ever been).
Older people expect radio to be "free" - you suffer the commercials and then you get the goods. The generation raised on TV and Internet services with monthly fees, want the media they want, the way they want it- and expect to pay for it.
It isn't just the kids rejecting radio. We hear frequently about the ad fatigue from our readers who are, for the most part, veteran radio listeners (read old). Research is showing that significant numbers of Boomers are buying satellite radio and iPods for the same reasons their children are: it's better technology doing a better job of serving listeners.
(It's easy to see why Air America, a start-up in an old tenchnology, with an untried programming format in a rapidly changing and declining market might have had some very basic problems that might not have all been Al Franken's fault).
Unlike some other media businesses, radio is only beginning to look at online business models.
This isn't the first time that the future of radio has looked grim; and it won't be the end of it.
We often complain how unresponsive to listeners is the radio business. Whereas individual hosts will kiss listeners asses or give them credence on-air, it's rare when corporate responds. When listeners write or call stations, it's rare they get satisfaction or many times- even the courtesy of acknowledgment.
But that's puny- nothing compared to the biggest way radio stations ignore their listeners. The mortal sin is their cleaving unto an antiquated, ineffectual (and expensive!) rating system. The Arbitron diaries are simply very flawed and inaccurate in an age where survey research has never been so sophisticated and consumer interaction are bywords.
Those old imperial days are past, and radio industry's head in the sand has brought some chickens home to roost. It's radio's time to roll, but we gotta be honest- we loves chicken!
Did anyone else hear Dori whining about his ratings yesterday? Music to my ears
Posted by: Dana | October 26, 2006 at 04:36 PM
I dont listen to Dori, so...no I didnt
Posted by: sparky | October 26, 2006 at 04:56 PM
Why the hell are there idiots Ron and Don still on the air?
Their schtick of brainless talk radio for joe-six-pack doesn't work. Bring back intelligent intellectual talk.
And please leave your "Hero" show to legitimate charitable organzations rather than trying to exploit it for a cheap ratings bump.
Tom, please send this show packing.
Posted by: The Anti KIRO | October 26, 2006 at 05:13 PM
Over on that so-called radio profeshunals eenformation board - someone says Entercom's thinking about simulcating KIRO on 107.7FM.
Yeah, that oughta help with the numbers. Maybe for Ron and Don!
Posted by: RobP | October 26, 2006 at 05:17 PM
Totally agree with your thoughts on why radio is in the dumpster. As an old guy, (46), I unplug my radio after Ron Reagan, and it's IPOD time until my garage door opens at 4:30pm.
KIRO afternoon radio hosts are as lame as lame can be. When substandard talent is married with obnoxious strings of repetitive ads, it just gets to be too much.
Mr. Monson would be better suited to perhaps the Okanogan or Walla Walla markets, with his smarmy, Mayberrish bash-the-government schtick, and Ron and Don? Please. The only microphone those two should be allowed access to, might be at the Cuff Complex on Kareoke night.
Are individual talent ratings available anywhere, or are those held close to the vest? Those would be very interesting indeed.
Posted by: adc | October 26, 2006 at 05:52 PM
Mr. Monson would be better suited to perhaps the Okanogan or Walla Walla markets
Wow...if you had been talking about other areas of the country...such as Watts or East L.A....in such terms, you would have been branded a racist and classist...hmmm....
...but it's okay to slam white areas....
I forgot...liberals don't group people....
Posted by: Thom | October 26, 2006 at 07:45 PM
Oh, come on, Thom. They are more conservative in those areas . . . what is racist, classist and any other "ist" about it? I think you are oversensitive.
I'm beginning to feel redundant. Pick a market and play to it. Have the courage to keep ads minimal and hopefully you'll attract enough of an audience that those ads will become more expensive. KIRO's got a start with Dave and Ron. Build on talent.
Get 710DORI off air. Find a nice little niche off the dial for him. Or ship him to Wenatchee.
BTW, what or who was Dori blaming for his poor ratings, Dana?
Posted by: joanie | October 26, 2006 at 08:03 PM
Or ship him to Wenatchee
Wow! I'm sure all the folks in Wenatchee appreciate your slam!
Posted by: Thom | October 26, 2006 at 08:20 PM
Since I have quite a few relatives there, I know they appreciate me.
Posted by: joanie | October 26, 2006 at 08:24 PM
Does anyone figure podcasts into listeners? I only podcast for several different reasons and so I probably don't get counted but I'm still out there listening.
However now that I think about it, I pay a subscription fee and so don't listen to the commercials so maybe I shouldn't be counted. hhhhmmmm...
Also I'm 17yrs outside the 18-30yr old demo and I would be broken hearted without my MP3 player (not and ipod :) I'm guessing a lot of us older listeners are adapting even though we are use to free radio. I think paying for cable tv has made this point for people.
Robin
Posted by: Robin | October 26, 2006 at 08:24 PM
They are more conservative in those areas
Any time people start talking about other people as "they," I start to get worried.
That's when "they" have to start wearing pink triangles and gold stars.
Posted by: Thom | October 26, 2006 at 08:28 PM
Since I have quite a few relatives there, I know they appreciate me.
For despising what they stand for?
Posted by: Thom | October 26, 2006 at 08:31 PM
Walla Walla is gaining stature as one of the great wine growing/winery areas in the region. That, coupled with the University crowd, Walla Walla would not appreciate Dorki Monson at all. I even saw a few volvos and latte stands. Gracious!
Posted by: sparky | October 26, 2006 at 08:37 PM
Since I have quite a few relatives there, I know they appreciate me.
So...if I understand this...
You don't like Dori
You want to ship him off to Wenatchee
You have relatives in Wenatchee appreciate you
You still want to send Dori to Wenatchee...to your relatives....
Posted by: Thom | October 26, 2006 at 08:37 PM
Any time people start talking about other people as "they," I start to get worried.
Do you suffer panic attacks per chance?
Would you prefer "most Eastern Washington voters" instead of "they?" Not sure about your anxiety over pronouns. . . but I find it amusing. :)
Posted by: joanie | October 26, 2006 at 08:38 PM
Walla Walla is gaining stature as one of the great wine growing/winery areas in the region. That, coupled with the University crowd, Walla Walla would not appreciate Dorki Monson at all. I even saw a few volvos and latte stands. Gracious!
My point exactly!!! Liberal generalization illustrated!
(Thanks, tho', for helping me make my point....)
Posted by: Thom | October 26, 2006 at 08:41 PM
Frank talked smugly last weekend like the Senate was out of play, and destined to remain in Republican hands. Foxnews begs to differ. But Geeez, Frank Shiers has such expertise on politics and global warming. Could Frank be talking out of his ass again? Geeeeeeeeez!
Posted by: Frank is a real p#### | October 26, 2006 at 08:45 PM
Thom: For despising what they stand for?
Would sending them Dori be a hateful act? Do you dislike him so much?
I would send him to them knowing, as I do, that they are conservative and so is he. How does that translate to my despising them? Just curious . . .
I don't like him, but they might? Don't you think they should be allowed to make up their own minds? Aren't you for freedom and choice? Or would you have me censor what they get to listen to on the radio?
Also, Sparky, I agree with you. Demographics are a changin'. But, I think i'm on pretty safe ground to consider Eastern WA as still a relataively conservative area . . . hopefully, Goldmark will help turn it around.
Posted by: joanie | October 26, 2006 at 08:45 PM
Would you prefer "most Eastern Washington voters" instead of "they?"
You illustrate my point about liberal thinking...all Western Washington" people are liberal...all Eastern Washington people are right-wing conservatives.
You couldn't even put a nuance into THAT statement...you just referred to "most Eastern Wasington voters."
sparky gets it.
Posted by: Thom | October 26, 2006 at 08:46 PM
Don't you think they should be allowed to make up their own minds? Aren't you for freedom and choice? Or would you have me censor what they get to listen to on the radio?
Golly...calm down...they DO have a choice...it's called "ratings."
Posted by: Thom | October 26, 2006 at 08:53 PM
Oh, Thom. Me thinks thou doth protest too much. If most doesn't work, would "a majority" do?
If you are arguing that Eastern WA is changing, I would agree. Or are you arguing that Wenatchee is now liberal?
Why not just say you mean? Or is it easier to attack me for being liberal . . . Sparky, if you know what he means, tell me, please.
Posted by: joanie | October 26, 2006 at 08:57 PM
Since when are "ratings" a choice? I thought "ratings" were a measurement of who's listening. . .
Posted by: joanie | October 26, 2006 at 08:58 PM
Since when are "ratings" a choice? I thought "ratings" were a measurement of who's listening...
...I rest my case....
Posted by: Thom | October 26, 2006 at 09:03 PM
The jury just came in and found you guilty of ambiguity, misrepresentation, vacuity of ideas, information and clarity . . . the judge sentences you to thirty days learning how to clearly make a point.l
Jury dismissed.
Thanks for fun time chasing our tails. :)
Posted by: joanie | October 26, 2006 at 09:07 PM
The jury just came in
....hmmm...a jury of one....
Posted by: Thom | October 26, 2006 at 09:10 PM
Now, now . . . you've been convicted and sentenced. Come back in thirty days and try again. If you get the same judge, me, you can always ask for a change of venue.
Of course, you could appeal . . . I might consider that.
Posted by: joanie | October 26, 2006 at 09:16 PM
Beats me...
Dori can stay where he is. I dont listen to KIRO.
Posted by: sparky | October 26, 2006 at 09:33 PM
I agree! Conservative hosts should only be allowed to broadcast in conservative areas. And gay people should only be allowed to live in mostly gay areas. And black children should only be allowed to go to schools in black parts of town....
Why is Dori even on KIRO?? I don't think that hosts who don't think exactly like me should be allowed on stations I listen to.
By the way, if you think I sound like a fucking idiot, then I've made my point. The mirror has been held up.
Posted by: Sam | October 26, 2006 at 10:21 PM
The mirror has been held up.
Warning...they don't like that when it happens.... ;)
Posted by: Thom | October 26, 2006 at 10:25 PM
Of course, you could appeal . . . I might consider that.
...and who is this "I' you talk about...I was not aware that this was "your" thread....
Pls advise....
Posted by: Thom | October 26, 2006 at 10:32 PM
Dori Monson and Shiers could easily move onto the 10,000 watt Voice of Fargo station, in Fargo, North Dakota, and do newstalk there, without missing a beat. I bet the Fargo folk would eat up that asinine "poor choices" crap that Monson spews out daily, with his "bratty teenage brother" delivery.
Posted by: Tommo008 | October 26, 2006 at 10:35 PM
Sam: Conservative hosts should only be allowed to broadcast in conservative areas.
If you are going to characterize what I say, at least get it right. Doesn't liberal Seattle provide conservatives with KVI and KTTH? Do you go to rock stations to hear country-western? Do you go to Christian stations to hear Tom Leykis?
You seem to have trouble making your points. Yes, I would love to see 710DORI journey to the bowels of all that is red.
Thom: ...and who is this "I' you talk about...I was not aware that this was "your" thread....
Pls advise....
Oh, dear! Got your panties in a twist! I guess you don't have a sense of humor afterall. My mistake.
Posted by: joanie | October 26, 2006 at 11:11 PM
I guess you don't have a sense of humor afterall. My mistake.
...yes...your mistake....
Posted by: Thom | October 26, 2006 at 11:22 PM
But then, just goes to show, another generalization proven true: conservatives are a humorless bunch.
Nightie night.
J
I think I'll make this my permanent sign off. Sort of like Edward R. Murrow and Walter Kronkite . . .
Posted by: joanie | October 26, 2006 at 11:29 PM
But then, just goes to show, another generalization proven true: conservatives are a humorless bunch.
Yes...liberals generalize a lot!!!
Posted by: Thom | October 26, 2006 at 11:47 PM
Yes...liberals generalize a lot!!!
Ah, Thom. You took the bait, hook, line and sinker!
Posted by: joanie | October 27, 2006 at 12:23 AM
I think some of you need to get laid more often.
Posted by: ryder | October 27, 2006 at 07:17 AM
(Jeez, what a bunch of time-wasting comments.)
I didn't listen to Dori yesterday, and am curious as to what he said about his ratings. Can anyone fill me in?
I occasionally listen to him just to see what he's ranting about for the day, but I end up turning him off at the inevitable time where he finds some minor news item and then chides his audience about "and this is typical of how all liberals think and/or act."
Posted by: bj | October 27, 2006 at 08:47 AM
Ah, Thom. You took the bait, hook, line and sinker!
Irony and sarcasm are lost on this crowd....
Posted by: Thom | October 27, 2006 at 02:29 PM
Joanie,
I can see you have strong feelings about this. What Thom and others are saying is that you appear to be talking out of both sides of your mouth:
On the one hand, you note that "freedom" and "choice" are important; on the other, you're saying that Dori should not be on KIRO, because he's conservative.
Furthermore, what the others are saying is that having Dori on the air gives us choice....you can choose to listen or not. And--flawed as they are--the ratings are all we have to go by to determine if people are listening. Thus, according to your logic, Dori should go to Eastern Washington because no one over here will listen to him. According to Dori the other day, his ratings were quite high and people are listening.
Personally, I like Dave Ross and I listen to him. I tried listening to Ron Reagan for awhile, but he was just boring because he's so predictable....so I turn to Day-to-Day on NPR. But, at 1 or 2, I turn Dori on just to see what he's going to b***h about; afterall, he's just an entertainer, whether you like what he says or not, ala Howard Stern.
I know you're probably not going to get what I'm saying, but it was worth a try.
Posted by: DoriListener | October 27, 2006 at 02:32 PM
Pretty interesting reading here. Many of you express the negative about KIRO and its hosts, varying from mild annoyance to intense hatred.
Why are you all listening to the station? Turn the damned radio off, if you don't like what's out there. If you did, maybe the overall ratings would drop even more and a few stations would go dark, leaving a slightly larger pie for the rest of them.
The other side has as much right to express their opinions as you do. Whether it's done well or not is beside the point.
You have "progressive talk" KPTK. However, they've shown no interest in providing the local content that you say you want. Why then, have you all seemingly rolled over and accepted their position. If you spent half as much energy, trying to convince KPTK that you're a legitimate audience, as you do wishing KIRO off the air, you might be a much happier group. Instead, you speak of them only infrequently, and obsess over the way KIRO chooses to bury themselves... one of the rights of ownership, last I checked.
A radio dial with only Franken, Rhodes, Malloy and the like would be at least as offensive as one with only Limbaugh and Hannity.
Posted by: Oldguy | October 27, 2006 at 03:12 PM
well, I like KPTK just like it is. You can listen to KIRO if you want to. I choose not to. That doesnt mean I want it off the air. Actually, even if I did want to listen, it doesnt come in well here, so its not a huge decision. I have lots of choices other than KIRO, so they can do whatever they want. With streaming available everywhere but my car, I am very happy with the variety of choices I have.
Oldguy, I think a lot of the unhappiness is because people remember what KIRO used to be like, and it is a mere shadow of its former self.
Posted by: sparky | October 27, 2006 at 05:36 PM
Me's think that as the election nears these posts are going to get louder and harder to read.
Take a load off, sit back and listen to something else for a change. Like "Coast To Coast AM". If you can't stay up overnight (and I certainly can't), subscribe to Streamlink and put the spoken voices on your IPod or other tiny voicebox.
Posted by: Charpy | October 27, 2006 at 05:46 PM
What kinds of things does Streamlink offer? Or maybe I should say WHO does Streamlink offer?
Posted by: sparky | October 27, 2006 at 06:16 PM
Thus, according to your logic, Dori should go to Eastern Washington because no one over here will listen to him.
No, Dorilistenter, not according to my "logic." According to my "desires." There's a difference you know. But then, I don't think you guys get nuance.
Oldguy: A radio dial with only Franken, Rhodes, Malloy and the like would be at least as offensive as one with only Limbaugh and Hannity.
In your opinion. I don't share that opinion. But, you're welcome to yours.
Why are you all listening to the station? Turn the damned radio off,
Good idea. I do. But, as Sparky says, some of us miss the old KIRO but it does seem to be gone forever.
I think it is odd that you continue to read posts that you seem to find annoying.
Posted by: joanie | October 27, 2006 at 06:33 PM
Why do so many assume that everyone who loathes Monson, does so because of his politics?
I could care less about his politics. It's his smarmy know-it-all, obnoxious attitude that used to grate on me, which is why I no longer listen to KIRO in the afternoons.
Obnoxious personalities are obnoxious personalities, politics be damned.
Posted by: adc | October 27, 2006 at 07:31 PM
like many i am a dave ross fan and i find his election shows particularly informative. when hes doing a topic im not interested in i turn the channel.
dori isnt always easy to listen to, however he has been right on sound transit, certainly the monorail and isnt afraid to point out when government is usurping our freedoms and overtaxing. he has sports connections that make his show interesting. im not a fan of his sometimes christian bent, anti gay, one note liberal bashing, however i can just turn the channel. Ron and Dons katrina shows were awesome and came from the heart, actually when ron was awol for two or three days, don by himself was much more coherent and entertaining. (i hope i didnt get that backwards) frank shiers is just frank and best taken in small doses, he does do some offbeat topics. styble was unlistenable no question, however trucker radio, i dont care if it is free, is worse than a bad snl skit. carry on, dave
Posted by: david | October 28, 2006 at 05:13 PM
I think Frank Shiers is on drugs.
Posted by: Dana | October 30, 2006 at 09:54 PM
ohh fill us in, Dana. what did Frank do now?
Posted by: sparky | October 30, 2006 at 10:24 PM