take your answer off the air...

  • HorsesAss.Org: the straight poop on WA politics & the press
    progressive brilliance from the guy who pointed out Tim Eyman's nascent horse's-assedness
  • Talker's Magazine
    The quirky talk radio trade mag. Check the Talk Radio Research Project- it's not very scientific, but places on the top 15 talkers list (scroll down to Talk Radio Audiences By Size)) are as hotly contested as Emmys (and mean just about as much).
  • The Advocate
    No, not THAT Advocate... it's the Northwest Progressive Institute's Official Blog.
  • Media Matters
    Documentation of right-wing media in video, audio and text.
  • Orcinus
    home of David Neiwert, freelance investigative journalist and author who writes extensively about far-right hate groups
  • Hominid Views
    "People, politics, science, and whatnot" Darryl is a statistician who fights imperialism with empiricism, gives good links and wry commentary.
  • Jesus' General
    An 11 on the Manly Scale of Absolute Gender, a 12 on the Heavenly Scale of the 10 Commandments and a 6 on the earthly scale of the Immaculately Groomed.
  • Howie in Seattle
    Howie Martin is the Abe Linkin' of progressive Seattle.
  • Streaming Radio Guide
    Hellishly long (5795!) list of radio streaming, steaming on the Internets.
  • The Naked Loon
    News satire -- The Onion in the Seattle petunia patch.
  • Irrational Public Radio
    "informs, challenges, soothes and/or berates, and does so with a pleasing vocal cadence and unmatched enunciation. When you listen to IPR, integrity washes over you like lava, with the pleasing familiarity of a medium-roast coffee and a sensible muffin."
  • The Maddow Blog
    Here's the hyper-interactive La Raych of MSNBC. daily show-vids, freakishly geeky research, and classy graphics.
  • Northwest Broadcasters
    The AM, FM, TV and digital broadcasters of Northwest Washington, USA and Southwest British Columbia, Canada. From Kelso, WA to the northern tip of Vancouver Island, BC - call letters, formats, slogans, networks, technical data, and transmitter maps. Plus "recent" news.
  • News Corpse
    The Internet's chronicle of media decay.
  • The Moderate Voice
    The voice of reason in the age of Obama, and the politics of the far-middle.
  • News Hounds
    Dogged dogging of Fox News by a team who seems to watch every minute of the cable channel so you don't have to.
  • HistoryLink
    Fun to read and free encyclopedia of Washington State history. Founded by the late Walt Crowley, it's an indispensable tool and entertainment source for history wonks and surfers alike.

right-wing blogs we like

  • The Reagan Wing
    Hearin lies the real heart of Washington State Republicans. Doug Parris runs this red-meat social conservative group site which bars no holds when it comes to saying who they are and who they're not; what they believe and what they don't; who their friends are and where the rest of the Republicans can go. Well-written, and flaming.
  • Orbusmax
    inexhaustible Drudgery of NW conservative news
  • The Radio Equalizer
    prolific former Seattle KVI, KIRO talk host speaks authoritatively about radio.
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« Wednesday oddems: eyman meets pieman; bogged-down jim leads the pack; ron, ron, don & no john; hosts go to battle; hint lives! | Main | BREAKING: Goldy gets the job! »

June 08, 2006

Comments

robinz

Eyman's done one other thing, he's made people like me who once really believed strongly in the initiative process never sign another petition. I think paid signature gatherers defeates the perpose of the process. It was put into place for people who cared enough to get their buttes out of the house to do something about changing things. To my mind it was suppose to be about grass roots not about who has the most green money. Eyman may not have been the first to use this tactic but his shinanigans brought it to the for front in my mind.

joanie

Well, a fierce battle of egos developed and it became all about them! Good riddance is all I've got to say.

Mike Barer

I wonder if this is an Eyman failure or just an evolution of thought. I think this was a civil rights issue and our state did not want to abridge civil rights.

sparky

I hope it is the latter!

Andrew

Why does anyone care that it's Tim Eyman's idea? A person asking for a signature for an initiative ultimately wants some new law passed, and if the idea turns out to be popular, it doesn't matter who thought the idea up.

It's fucking retarded to ask if Tim Eyman's credibility with voters is finished because that implies we voters are a bunch of brain dead mouth breathers who only endorse laws if we like person making the proposal.

Maybe we can legalize pot, death with dignity, gay marriage and raise the death tax if only we find someone super credible to think the idea up.

sparky

I know a lot of brain-dead mouth breathers who vote just as you described.....

Andrew

I guess we've truely reached the height of self indulgence. It wasn't so long ago that people voted for someone in particular with the hope of improving their economic situation.

Now people vote for vanity. They won't go to the polls to save the troops but they'll go to bash queers and keep 'em from marryin them queer selves.

joanie

I never voted to improve my economic condition . . . hmmmmm. I guess that's why I'm called a bleeding-heart liberal.

DOUG.

Don't give up on the initiative process. Ask one simple quesion before signing: "Are you a paid signature gatherer?" Legally they must respond truthfully. If they're paid, walk away.

Nate

Don't give up on the initiative process. Ask one simple quesion before signing: "Are you a paid signature gatherer?" Legally they must respond truthfully. If they're paid, walk away.

Good idea Doug, but just take it one logical step further

Don't walk away - Raise some 1st Amendment hell. Follow the paid dupe around & make sure everyone knows he/she is an Eyman stooge.

Steve

"I know a lot of brain-dead mouth breathers who vote just as you described....."

They are commonly known as Libs. Dims, and Greeners.

joanie

Yeah, liberterians, dimwitted conservatives, and greenback-loving repugs who are one-issue voters: tax breaks. Sad isn't it, Steve?

sparky

I was referring to the people who voted for Bush....
breathe through your nose, please...

joanie

If anyone's interested, CSpan is airing today's "YEARLYKOS" convention. C-Span is so great!

BTW, legislation to severly limit the net passed the House yesterday. Beware . . .these republicans don't care about fair or the little guy. They want to control it all.

Steve

Joanie said:

" Beware . . .these republicans don't care about fair or the little guy. They want to control it all."

Is it the Repubs that want to continue government intervention in all facets of our lives? is it the Repubs that say a citizen can't make it on their own-they need government support to live the good life?

Do you know what the bill # was of the legislation you cite that was aired on CSPIN limiting the net? What are the limitations?

Who are the little guys? Is that a title that is based on income? If so, what is the income floor? Or can you define little guys in other paremeters?

joanie

Steve:
#! YES: patriot act; listening in on phone calls; checking library records; limiting marriage rights and privileges; limiting state and voters choices on death rights - sorry, these are off the top of my head. The question doesn't deserve deep analysis.

#2 I don't know of anybody that said a person can't make it on their own or that they are looking for the good life. . . if you do, please cite that person. Thanks.

#3 "House of Representatives Passes COPE Act"

and

"By a 20-13 vote Thursday that partially followed party lines, the House Judiciary Committee approved a bill that would require broadband providers to abide by strict Net neutrality principles, meaning that their networks must be operated in a "nondiscriminatory" manner.

All 14 Democrats on the committee (joined by six Republicans) supported the measure, while 13 Republicans opposed it."


Do your own research for the bill # but I did get it wrong . . . although if you read both articles (and I assume you are ethical enough to do so) you will see that the issue is ongoing. This is one you can thank the democrats for saving . . . unless, Steve, you are against net neutrality. I remember hearing the vote result on the radio but can't remember which station and it is very possible I misheard it.

#4: Little guys? employees, homemakers, children, immigrants, addicts, disabled people, veterans, homeless people and many others too numerous to mention. I don't regard major corporations or multi-nationals as "little guys" not do I regard the top 1% in wealth as a "little guy."

So, take your shots.

joanie

One more Steve: "Defeat for net neutrality backers"

Guess you have to understand the full story - I'm not sure I agree that we must lose net neutrality; I'm hoping it is still undecided. As you can see, the republicans will make that decision. Analysis seems to raise concerns . . .

Again, which side are you on?

joanie

Steve - sorry there's just so much to which to refer you!

"COPE Telecom Bill Affects Net Neutrality, Local Cable Franchises and Funding for Public Access" and

"House Ignores Public, Sells Out the Internet"

joanie

Uno mas (last one Michael-promise!):
". . . The legislation would replace the regulatory role of more than 30,000 local franchising authorities with a national system supervised by the Federal Communications Commission." ". . . the legislation does nothing to prevent the phone and cable providers from charging Internet content providers a premium for carrying services . . . "

Have I caught you up, Steve?

Steve

Joanie said:

"! YES: patriot act; listening in on phone calls; checking library records; limiting marriage rights and privileges; limiting state and voters choices on death rights"

I have no problem with those measures except for the death rights. You are right, the Patriot Act is so basic to security that it deserves little discussion.

"2 I don't know of anybody that said a person can't make it on their own or that they are looking for the good life. . . if you do, please cite that person. Thanks"

The dim/lib extortionist Jesse Jackson is one who continues to say/imply his people can't make it on their own. Nor does he want them to. The elders of this State's Indian Tribes are another group that does not want their members to leave the reservation and become productive citizens. Living on the dole and off casino royalties are much more desirable to most. I spent a week working with a large gathering of various Western tribes and it was quite telling in their apporach to keeping/obtaining government support programs.

A reasonable person would determine that Dims/Libs support big government for the "little people" From the failed Depts of Ed. Energy, Social Security, IRS,NEA and on and on ad nauseum. WA Dept of Ecology is the biggest hoax ever placed on this State except for the WA Ed system. WASL-low scores again in Math-answer, need more money. BS.

"Little guys? employees, homemakers, children, immigrants, addicts, disabled people, veterans, homeless people and many others too numerous to mention."

I wear three of the titles you assign to little guys. So I must qualify.

"I'm not sure I agree that we must lose net neutrality;"

I really don't care about net neutrality. If I don't agree with a site I can go elsewhere. I will be surprised if anything comes to law requiring net neutrality. The case in the WA State Supreme Court about a similiar issue with KVI-John Carlson and Kirby Wilbur should be telling. The main stream media (TV) is certainly not neutral-ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN & CSPIN numbers are down. People are awakening.

BTW-I am not a member of the GOP. I grew up in a family of Dims in E. WA.

"Have I caught you up, Steve?"

Some.

Thanks.

sparky

DINO

Steve

DINO-not. I don't pretend to be a Dim. Don't want to be a dim-disagree with nearly all their positions.

I am conservative, but not a GOP member. I don't support a lot of wwhat Pres Bush has done. The immigration legislation by the Senate and backed by the Pres I vigorously oppose.

On that subject, my sister in law is a Thai who went through the naturalization process, then was administered her citizenship oath in Spanish (in Yakima). What is wrong with that picture?

joanie

Steve, you may be perfectly content giving away your freedoms but don't expect everyone to be.

While you cite several groups who support social programs, I don't recall hearing your definition of the "good life" nor how they are demanding it. Your inference of anything goes on in your head and doesn't make it real.

If you don't agree with a site you can go elsewhere? You are assuming "elsewhere" will continue to exist . . . interesting. You know what they say about people who assume . . .

As for the picture of an oath in Spanish in a town where Spanish is probably the second (if not the first) most used language? Sounds okay to me. What's wrong with your picture of that picture?

You are a very typical "me first" example of the "superior American." And you may be successful in turning our country in the fascist state you endorse. I hope not.

Steve

Joanie said:

"You are a very typical "me first" example of the "superior American." And you may be successful in turning our country in the fascist state you endorse."

My what a broad stroke. I am not surprised.

Can you name any freedom you have lost? What impact has the P.A. had directly on you?

I don't think of myself as "me first", or superior. But I do believe work has its rewards, and if that leads to the good life, however that is defined, rightly so. I have worked hard, served the country for a lot of years in some difficult times and haven't asked much in return." I did use the GI Bill to get my BA-so if that is "me first", I plead guilty.

In my mind, I do lead the good life. We are fairly healthly and our kids are doing well. We aren't rich financially in our eyes, but that is relative. Our second home is a gorgeous log home on 28 acres in the Huckleberry Mountains of E WA that provides me tranquility and isolation. Some would not call the isolation the good life. We worked hard, and still do, for what we have and owe an apology to no one for that. I give a pretty good bit to the Spokane Mission each year and CFC. So, in retrospect you are correct-I am a me first guy. I support the charities I want to support. How typically selfish of this conservative.

"As for the picture of an oath in Spanish in a town where Spanish is probably the second (if not the first) most used language? Sounds okay to me. What's wrong with your picture of that picture?

Why do we have borders Joanie? Is it not to define culture differences, and preserve our culture?

You usewd the word assume-I didn't. So if your birkenstock fits.....

sparky

yeah Joanie, gotta keep them brown people out!

I mean, come on...they work and work and work out there in the hot sun, or scrub toilets and before you know it, they are going to want to be paid a decent wage. Then where would we be?
I would have to pay more for things, and I wouldnt be able to have my second home.

If they want a better life, they should send all their kids to college and buy a decent home and get a decent job. If all they want to do is pick crops, or do housecleaning or mow the lawn, then they shouldnt expect to live like me in these United States of Americah.

Right?

joanie

While enjoying your second home, do you give any thought at all to people who don't have a first home?

Your whole post speaks for itself. It reflects a smug and superior attitude. It lacks humility and the recognition that life does not offer equal opportunity to all people. I think you had better put a big fence around that second house of yours because many of your neighbors are not doing so well.

Just as Mexicans come to America to put food on the tables of their families back home, your neighbors may one day have to come to your kitchen to put some food on the table in their homes. I wonder if they will risk life and limb to do that just as the Mexicans do now?

Boy, those Mexicans . . . and everybody else. . . if they just worked harder, they could have that second home in the Huckleberry Mountains, too. How many hours did you have to spend in the fields picking apples and peaches to earn that extra home?

You are the perfect example of the ugly American who sees nothing beyond his own comfortable surroundings. Much like France before the revolution . . . "let them eat cake."

joanie

Oh Sparky! Isn't he just so out of touch with his own good fortune? Unbelievable!

sparky

I don't begrudge anyone from having the finer things in life as a result of their hard work. They deserve them.

Where I have a problem is when those same people feel that since they have theirs, then the plight of others is not of their concern. That is sooooo against the teachings of the Bible.

Frank Rich has an excellent column this morning..

"Most Americans who are in favor of stricter border enforcement are not bigots. Far from it. But some politicians and other public figures see an opportunity to foment hate and hysteria for their own profit. They are embracing a nativism and xenophobia that recall the 1920's, when a State Department warning about an influx of "filthy" and "unassimilable" Jews from Eastern Europe led to the first immigration quotas, or the 1950's heyday of Operation Wetback, when illegal Mexican workers were hunted down and deported. Tolerance and dignity are already on life-support in this debate. If the president doesn't lead, he will have helped relegate Hispanics to the same second-class status he has encouraged for gay Americans. Compassionate conservatism, R.I.P. "

(Bla'M, I would have linked the entire article but you have to pay 50$ to read it. So this is one paragraph!)

joanie

Sparky, I read Rich every week. He writes with a clarity and truth that is unmatchable. Truthout may well include the article - they often do and then all can read it.

The unfortunate thing is that the people who need to read him don't. Steve may or may not deserve what he's earned; it depends on how he's earned it. If he earned it by exploiting Mexican labor, I would disagree that he earned it. But, life is simple for him. He's got his and that is all that counts.

Even though he discloses that he went to school on the GI bill, he has no understanding that other social programs (which the GI bill obviously is) are important as well. But, he doesn't need them so nobody should.

Steve is typical of many older Americans who were able to reach the American dream at a time when there was little competition. everybody had health care, corporations weren't outsourcing those same jobs, labor unions maintained a strong middle class, Blacks were kept out of the economy, and the stock market was doing well.

He can continue to live in his isolated cabin enjoying his short-sighted view of the world. And all is well. For him.

Steve

Joanie said:

"Steve is typical of many older Americans who were able to reach the American dream at a time when there was little competition. everybody had health care, corporations weren't outsourcing those same jobs, labor unions maintained a strong middle class, Blacks were kept out of the economy, and the stock market was doing well.

He can continue to live in his isolated cabin enjoying his short-sighted view of the world. And all is well. For him"

You have no idea of my socioeconomic status or my work history. So, again you brush broadly on your perceptions. I do have a lot farm labor experience so the farm laborers in this State aren't doing anything I haven't.

And you are right-I will be going to the mountain home Thursday after work and all will be well for me. Come visit, you may find you like it.

joanie

I have every indication of your socio-economic status. You just want to deny it. Yours is a weak defense and one posed by your inability to proffer anything better.

Dana

"Where I have a problem is when those same people feel that since they have theirs, then the plight of others is not of their concern. That is sooooo against the teachings of the Bible."

That description fits Dori Monson, except that he not only doesn't care, he actively hates poor people and hates when people in the lower socio-economic strata threaten his fat little world. If he keeps this up, he's going straight to hell someday.

sparky

Yep..and I am no Bible thumper by a long shot. But it amazes me how the "Christian Right" willfully cherry pick all those parts of the Bible that talk about being our brother's keeper..does that mean everyone gets a free handout? Of course not. But it could mean we level the playing field where possible.
Having "stuff" is not what its all about.

(yes hunny, the garage is going to get cleaned out xo)

joanie

"Why do we have borders Joanie? Is it not to define culture differences, and preserve our culture?

You usewd the word assume-I didn't. So if your birkenstock fits....."

A little lesson in geo-politics: we have borders to that we can have land regulations, taxing authorities and hold the inhabitants of those regions accountable to laws and regulations.

Borders are invisible lines separating one governed region from another. They exist between countries, states, counties, etc. etc. etc.

If borders were to protect culture, you would not be allowed to cross the King County border because we all wear Birkenstocks and you all wear logging boots. Isn't that right?

Talk about painting with a broad brush . . . you've painted yourself into a cultural corner. (LOL)

Steve

"and you all wear logging boots. Isn't that right?"

Nope. Pretty much birkenstocks here in Olympia.

Steve

"and you all wear logging boots. Isn't that right?"

Nope. Pretty much birkenstocks here in Olympia.

joanie

Hmmm, I haven't seen many birkenstocks in Thurston County. Didn't know they were allowed outside King County! (LOL) I sure do know of a lot of logging outfits in that area, however.

I guess anybody that can afford to work a four-day week can probably afford to import birkenstocks as well. . . :)

I think you might be a fun kinda guy to know. Just wish your politics were a little more liberal . . . I like people who care about people . . .

Fremont

Steve: "The elders of this State's Indian Tribes are another group that does not want their members to leave the reservation and become productive citizens. Living on the dole and off casino royalties are much more desirable to most."
Why can't the Native Americans be productive on the little land that Anglos returned to them after they stole it? What in hell do you mean by "on the dole"? Native Americans have sovereign immunity...their "reservations" are governed by tribal and federal law. The reason they can be productive via casinos is because they are not subject to state gambling laws. How dare you insult them?!

Fremont

56k36p

Steve

Joanie said:

". . I like people who care about people . . . "

Joanie-I work with disabled vets 9-10 hrs a day. Does that qualify me as caring? I do care very much for my vets-about 170 of them, and want them to get a fair shake and succeed. For the most part, it is a very satisfying job. I only get every other Fri off.

IMHO, I am a fun kind of guy-been down a lot of roads and have logged some great miles. Some not so great. But that is life.

Steve

I sure do know of a lot of logging outfits in that area, however.


Not as many as there used to be.
Same for the coastal sports fishing fleets.

Tommy008

The regulars at the Turf coffeebar were now all turned in their chairs and staring at The Fat Man. "Shooter" Purvis, a scrawny 60-ish black man wearing a Mariners ballcap and a black T-shirt with "I See Dumb People" printed on the front in big white letter was the first to speak. "Mikey Webb? I served in the Navy, Fat Man. That dude is a communist agitator from way back. And I don't go for all that Gay Pride Crap. God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Yes sir! Trial? I didn't know about no trial. What did the mo fo do?.......

Fremont

Seen any marbled murrelets along the miles you've logged, Steve?
Okay T-8 (aka E. Emerson), what DID the mo fo do? We eagerly await the next episode....

Fremont

cpkzwk

Steve

The Freemont axt:

"Seen any Marbled Murrelets along the miles you've logged, Steve?"

Not that I recall. I would have thought I might bag one of the more rare fowl nesting while Spotted Owl hunting in the Old Growth. Perhaps I scared a few when I used to fly helicopters around Tatoosh Island, Cape Flattery and other WA coastal, old growth hot spots.

But hey, I did stay in a Holiday Express a couple of weeks ago.

Fremont

Hey, St.Eve, I hope you rented that room for the spotted owls and marbled murrelets you saved from the chainsaws and Cheneyists....

Fremont

RoBotssuck

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