take your answer off the air...

  • HorsesAss.Org: the straight poop on WA politics & the press
    progressive brilliance from the guy who pointed out Tim Eyman's nascent horse's-assedness
  • Talker's Magazine
    The quirky talk radio trade mag. Check the Talk Radio Research Project- it's not very scientific, but places on the top 15 talkers list (scroll down to Talk Radio Audiences By Size)) are as hotly contested as Emmys (and mean just about as much).
  • The Advocate
    No, not THAT Advocate... it's the Northwest Progressive Institute's Official Blog.
  • Media Matters
    Documentation of right-wing media in video, audio and text.
  • Orcinus
    home of David Neiwert, freelance investigative journalist and author who writes extensively about far-right hate groups
  • Hominid Views
    "People, politics, science, and whatnot" Darryl is a statistician who fights imperialism with empiricism, gives good links and wry commentary.
  • Jesus' General
    An 11 on the Manly Scale of Absolute Gender, a 12 on the Heavenly Scale of the 10 Commandments and a 6 on the earthly scale of the Immaculately Groomed.
  • Howie in Seattle
    Howie Martin is the Abe Linkin' of progressive Seattle.
  • Streaming Radio Guide
    Hellishly long (5795!) list of radio streaming, steaming on the Internets.
  • The Naked Loon
    News satire -- The Onion in the Seattle petunia patch.
  • Irrational Public Radio
    "informs, challenges, soothes and/or berates, and does so with a pleasing vocal cadence and unmatched enunciation. When you listen to IPR, integrity washes over you like lava, with the pleasing familiarity of a medium-roast coffee and a sensible muffin."
  • The Maddow Blog
    Here's the hyper-interactive La Raych of MSNBC. daily show-vids, freakishly geeky research, and classy graphics.
  • Northwest Broadcasters
    The AM, FM, TV and digital broadcasters of Northwest Washington, USA and Southwest British Columbia, Canada. From Kelso, WA to the northern tip of Vancouver Island, BC - call letters, formats, slogans, networks, technical data, and transmitter maps. Plus "recent" news.
  • News Corpse
    The Internet's chronicle of media decay.
  • The Moderate Voice
    The voice of reason in the age of Obama, and the politics of the far-middle.
  • News Hounds
    Dogged dogging of Fox News by a team who seems to watch every minute of the cable channel so you don't have to.
  • HistoryLink
    Fun to read and free encyclopedia of Washington State history. Founded by the late Walt Crowley, it's an indispensable tool and entertainment source for history wonks and surfers alike.

right-wing blogs we like

  • The Reagan Wing
    Hearin lies the real heart of Washington State Republicans. Doug Parris runs this red-meat social conservative group site which bars no holds when it comes to saying who they are and who they're not; what they believe and what they don't; who their friends are and where the rest of the Republicans can go. Well-written, and flaming.
  • Orbusmax
    inexhaustible Drudgery of NW conservative news
  • The Radio Equalizer
    prolific former Seattle KVI, KIRO talk host speaks authoritatively about radio.
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« Wednesday oddems: Van Dyne- dj with no noname; dave reichert- a hoser with no name; ann coulter- hosebag with no name; allan prell- man without a house; and more bala cynwyd conspiracies | Main | Weekend quicklies: mike webb, dj nobrain, mike mcgavick, the acne-ed one, horse's ass radio, anabolic morons we have known »

June 22, 2006

Comments

joanie

I had exactly the same reaction the last time I saw GDGB, I thought he looked awfully tanned. There was just something unseemly about it. That he should look so fit and tanned - like he's been spending the summer at the beach - while he's sending kids to die in Iraq.

He's the fool who never ages because he's oblivious to the hardships of life.

Ted Smith

He's just making it easier for Condi to find him in those light-colored sheets.

James C Butler

this is garbage

Jack White

Must be a slow talk news period to focus on such trivial speculation.
On an important note: does any one know what happened to Lou Pate? Is he still in the area and/or on the air any place?

sparky

Ted..LOLOLOL

Ok enough laughing...
the mental picture of Bushler's butt crack while eating my breakfast is just gross...

blechhh!!!

PeopleFirst

It is newsworthy if our president is spending time in a tanning bed while we have soldiers baking in the heat of Iraq in crushing body armor. The very notion should disturb any red blooded American.

Tommy008

Bush is a narcissist who exercises five hours a day, and the tanning is just the latest extension of his narcissism. He's obviously too small a man to be given the Presidency since the office has clearly him an insufferable, grandiose opinion of himself and a strutting,, autocratic attitude, as demonstrated by his behavior at press conferences. Bush adopted his faux Texas accent(which fools only dummies) during his first run for Governor, before which time he has been caught on tape talking in the Eastern seaboard patios of Daddy Bush. The stuck up little bully thinks it makes him sound like a Texas gunslinger, but it actually gives him the sound of a Texas pigfarmer , with manure on his boots.

Tommy008

sorry , patois not patios- although Bush has spent a great deal of time on patios.

Brian In Lacey wa.

Well I got to thinking ??? the Styblehead radio reminds me of swallowing hair, and drinking bleach witch, is a fun thing to do while you have the, over baked brain on the over night the one the only Styblhead radio it not funny ! its just really bad radio ! Ok who is going to step up and take Tom from Krio, twin sister out , So we can get back to real radio late night !

Brian In Lacey wa.

I for got one thing hooty hoo ! still and always your new best buddy ! we need Scary Gary behind the glass ! to have a late night program !

sparky

I am reminded of Crank Yankers, for some reason....

Fremont

My dermatologist just apprised me of the dangers of tanning...may Bush's basal cells flourish and multiply where the sun don't shine!

Mark

Would it not be ironic if he got something that only Stem Cells could fix?

PeopleFirst

Interesting thought about the stem cells!

I hear they've made some good progress using adult stem cells - that's a relief as it could avoid all the controversy about using embryos. The scientists should focus on the research that has the best chance of succeeding. If the adult cells are working, I say go after it full steam ahead.

Peter P

Could be the man tan in a bottle!

ON a separate topic and to second a question I noticed yesterday...

What's the latest on the Mike Webb debacle? Jail or no jail?

sparky

we wont know until his hearing comes up next month...

 Joanie

Yeah, all that controversy about using embryos . . . better to go back to throwing them away. (LOL)

Lou Pate? Who's that?

PeopleFirst

I think we need to respect life. "Throwing away embryos" is a sad thing. That's why the adult stem cell possibilities are so good. This story from PBS highlights the exciting results from the adult stem cell research:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july-dec04/stemcell_7-14.html

I think we'd be a much better society if we weren't in the business of artificially creating or destroying embryos.

 Joanie

I thought we were throwing them away anyway. Pefi, am I wrong on that? I will check out the article. Thanks. :)

 Joanie

Hey, PeFi, about your user name . . . what do you mean by people first?

PeopleFirst

A couple of years ago, I helped out some of the other guys when I was working second shift. One day, during break, one of them was thanking me for filling in for him one holiday. He told me, "You always put people first, don't you?" Some of the other guys started using that phrase as a nickname for me - People First. I kind of liked it, so it stuck ever since.

As for the embryos, you are right - people throw them away nowadays. And that's what makes me sad. I wish people wouldn't be artificially creating embryos. I also wish people wouldn't be artificially killing them either - regardless of how they were created.

joanie

PeFi, how do people artificially create them and how do they artificially destroy them? Am I being antagonistic? Don't mean to be but am curious. . .

Glad to hear your story. For me it didn't jive with your thinking that everybody is doing well with my observation that a lot of people aren't doing so well . . . wondered about that.

PeopleFirst

From what I understand, Fertility Clinics create embryos outside of any human body by combining sperm and eggs in petri dishes. To me, that's not something we should be doing - it turns human life into an object that scientists can manipulate, and thus devalue. It just starts us down a dangerous path in how we value and treat humans.

joanie

Isn't the purpose to help infertile couples have children? Are they doing it to make embryos for other purposes?

PeopleFirst

One purpose is to help infertile couples. And, even though we all have compassion for infertile couples, I believe it is wrong for a society to engage in this type of science. We reduce human life to an object that we think we can create, choose to let live or discard, manipulate the sex/genes/etc. I believe humans are not objects and their value is not dependent upon what an individual person decides. That includes a couple that wants to choose one specific embryo and discard hundreds of others. It includes a scientist that helps create them only to use for experimentation.

I know infertile couples that have adopted kids instead. That is a very compassionate approach that they have chosen.

joanie

Just wanted to say before beddy-bye that I thought Goldy had a great show tonight.

I never realized how many breaks occur in weekend programs! Perhaps because Goldy's show is better than Shier's show, I notice the breaks more. Actually, I didn't notice them much in Erin's show either.

sparky

The infertile couple does not "choose" one embryo. All the viable fertilized eggs are inserted with the hopes that one will embed itself in the womb. Often, none of the eggs work, or, conversely, this is how sometimes a couple ends up with a multiple birth pregnancy because more than one egg implants itself.
The controversy comes from whether you think that at this stage, the cells are humans or if they are cells.

PeopleFirst

I've not personally been through the procedure and don't know anyone that has. I just know through reading things that excess embryos are created through the in vitro procedure quite often. And those spare embryos get discarded.

All scientists agree that human life begins with a fertilized egg. That is without question.

sparky

Actually, scientists dont all agree...that is where the controversy comes from. Science is about change, not absolutes. Blastocysts are not considered "human" by many. It is debated in religious circles. And the idea that embryos are "thrown away" makes for a strong argument for using the stem cells..this way, the "life" goes on to help other lives.

joanie

"All scientists agree that human life begins with a fertilized egg. That is without question."

I think you should provide a link when a sweeping statement is made.

I don't know much about this subject myself except what I've read so I tend to respect what others feel because I think it gets down to being a religious point of view.

Sparky and I have the same perspective on this. You might learn more about stem cell research "here" It may not change your mind but certainly will provide more information.

Oddly enough, I have some similar concerns although not regarding stem cell research which is designed to help living people who desperately need help.

But, I am a "life first" kind a person who remembers that Noah took two of each kind of animal onto the ark and I believe that God created all life to be special and respected. I think humans have usurped habitat for all species and have overrun and disrespected the planet. I do not think we are superior and believe that if God had it to do over again, he not only would leave that ol' rib inside of Adam but leave Adam on the blueprint page as well and say to hell with opening up that can of worms! What a wonderful Eden planet Earth might still be.

joanie

PeFi, I'm not an over-the-top animal's rights kind of person; just one who thinks we oughta respect all life and not just a mess of cells which may or may not be differentiated.

PeopleFirst

The fact is that every human life begins with conception. The only human lives that didn't seem to begin that way were Adam and Eve, but scientists don't accept the Bible as fact. So, we are left with an undisputable scientific fact - that every human life begins when a sperm and egg join. Does someone have evidence that disputes that? Is there some science experiment where a human life began a different way?

Of course, people that want to turn human life into an object want to get into a variety of discussions about what a fertilized egg represents. Many of those discussions sound eerily similar to the ideas that blacks didn't used to count as a full person - heck, many didn't consider them persons at all. Or the idea that Jews weren't human, and needed to be exterminated like some type of pest. So, to people like that, they can find comfort in arguing that a "bunch of cells" isn't a human - then they can go ahead and destroy those "cells", or clone them, or manipulate them. All of those things are bad to me. Again, it means treating human life like some type of object or toy and not recognizing the precious, unique nature of a human life.

I believe we need to treat all life with respect, including animals. I don't put animals on an equal plane with humans, but I don't condone cruel treatment of animals. I eat meat, eggs, fish, etc. because I believe that the animals are a legitimate source of food for mankind. But we should never be torturing animals or killing them for no reason.

joanie

And so you think that using the material of life to help maintain life or provide better health for fully developed humans is wrong.

I'm sorry I don't agree with your examples at all. No eerie similarities to me. But, suffice it to say I believe all life is so precious that whatever we can do without harm to human beings we have an obligation to do. No, a mass of cells is not yet a human being.

sparky

Conservatives are pro-birth...after that, their concern is over.

Tommy008

2006 Lying, Phony Bastard Award possibly a tie- (T8News Service) the 2006 Lying Phony Bastard Award for Seattle's biggest yutz,putz and schlemiel could possibly be a tie. It all depends on two bits of unknown info. If Mike Webb cops a guilty plea in Fridays court hearing, AND it is determined that Lou Pate is stil residing in the city of Seattle, then a dead heat will be declared for first place.

PeopleFirst

I disagree with Joanie and Sparky. But I understand your thinking.

It is undisputed that all human life begins with a fertilized egg. But if becoming a human is subject to someone else's judgment, how can we agree on who is human? If Joanie believes that a bunch of cells has to have a beating heart to become human, but Sparky believes a human has to be able to breathe and eat on its own, what does Joanie do when Sparky decides to terminate a 36 week fetus? Or, if there is some magical moment (other than conception) where one becomes a human, is it OK to terminate that "thing" 1 second before that moment occurs? Seems to open a lot of ethical and moral concerns because there can be such variability in the judgment of precisely when that magic moment occurs.

But your line of thinking helps me understand why it is logical to declare some people as "not human". If we can arbitrarily decide when someone becomes human for the first time, then it is logical to be able to declare that they are no longer human at some future point in time. For example, Sadam is a monster, so he must not be human - and that means there are no ethical issues if we kill him. A baby that is a few seconds from leaving the womb is not human, so it can be killed in the partial birth abortion procedure. A person with severe disabilities can be declared "not human" by people that think humans have to have a certain quality of life, and those who cannot attain that quality of life must not really be human. I understand the thinking - I totally disagree with it but it is logically consistent. Now I know why some people are so ardently for the death penalty, or support wars of convenience, or assisted suicide, etc. It scares me to think that there are people with widely varying ideas of what a "human" is - and that they will use their personal judgment to arbitrarily kill others.

chris

That last sentence sums up the Bush crime family.

joanie

PeFi, that is the most convoluted illogical argument I've ever heard. How long did it take you to compose it?

As for when those cells become a human being? I guess we have to make that decision for ourselves independently. Since the law acknowledges that we may view this issue differently, we have choice. I respect Sparky's ability to do that and she respects mine and we both respect yours. All of us have to accept the responsibility for our decisions and none should want to take that responsibility over for the other.

I'm not omniscient nor is she. . . so we do the best we can. But, I can tell you that we both know that a mass of cells is not a human being.

And as for all your examples, it is so typical of the right to lump everything together. It is as if you have no ability to critically think. That is not an attack but an observation. Your examples that are not patently absurd require careful consideration. In the case of assisted suicide? I respect the decision made by the people involved.

By the way, not once did I say that people are not human. That is the degree of absurdity you have to reach to make your argument. That alone should tell you that your thinking on this is terribly, terribly shallow and contrived.

joanie

Hey, Chris! We are fellow Malloy-ites! The Bush crime family and Chucklenuts! Isn't he funny!

PeopleFirst

I'm not the one who argues that someone is not human unless you (or someone else) says that they are human. Once you accept that premise, then you open the door to all sorts of possibilities you don't want to acknowledge, but that actually do happen. You call it "absurd" - if that makes you feel better about your rationale, then we'll leave it at that.

You know where I stand - I recognize that human life is precious. I recognize that all human life begins as a "mass of cells". And I now understand where the line of thinking originates that would enable us to dehumanize anyone, once we declare that we get to decide when they become "human".

joanie

Pefi: "I'm not the one who argues that someone is not human unless you (or someone else) says that they are human."

Neither am I. That is the point. You are not addressing the specifics of what I say but making a sweeping generalization about my beliefs. I disagree that a mass of cells is a 'someone."

All life is precious, PeFi. And the more we can use the material of life to help all life, we are doing good work.

Fremont

1) "It is undisputed that all human life begins with a fertilized egg." and
2) "A baby that is a few seconds from leaving the womb is not human, so it can be killed in the partial birth abortion procedure."
PeFi, these statements are WRONG!
1) It is definitely disputed and 2) Fetuses aborted in a "partial birth" procedure are NOT a "few seconds from leaving the womb". How do you feel about the discarding of eggs, without which the fertilizer/sperm is useless? Isn't there something sacred about the egg itself?

Fremont

Sorry to get into this so late...but I can't NOT challenge this! It just slipped past me like a torn condom...

Fremont

Another fab link, Joans....thanks!

joanie

Thanks, Fremont. I thought she was wrong on the partial-birth part esp. but don't have the facts and I hate to disupute her when I'm not up on it myself. I should be, huh?

sparky

Fremont:
Confucious say: man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day

joanie

Shocking, Sparky!

PeopleFirst

Sparky,

I'm waiting for someone to show me the human life that does not begin with a sperm fertilizing an egg. Please point out some documented evidence to the contrary, if you believe it exists. What you believe is disputed is when you choose to declare someone a human. You don't believe the fertilized egg is a human.

There are partial birth abortions that occur where the baby is stopped in the birth canal, before the head emerges, so the baby can be killed before it exits the womb completely. If you choose to not believe that the procedure happens, then I have nothing more to offer. This link, citing testimony from Senate hearings, is one of many on the internet that describes the procedure:

http://www.abortioninfo.net/facts/pba.shtml

I'm a Christian, so I believe in the sanctity of life from start to finish. I realize non-Christians try to rationalize that embryos/fetuses are not humans, and not gifts from God. That's why I stick to the science in these discussions.

Just curious - when do you believe something goes from being a "mass of cells" to becoming a "human"? What exactly is the criteria? Or is it always a personal choice that can differ from person to person?

joanie

Well, your point of view is at least good news for the undertakers union because I'm just sure there's a little grave for each and every miscarriage every Christian has ever had. Gotta remember those littles ones . . .

For me, not Sparky, it is when medical science reaches consensus. You see, I think scientists are humane and try their darndest to make that call the best they can. My personal belief is it has to do with brain development and some capacity for self awareness.

Beyond that, I have made my position clear on this subject and have no more to contribute.

sparky

Me either. This thread has already been hijacked enough...

The comments to this entry are closed.

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    • KIRO 710ESPN Seattle 710 KHz
      Games and sports-blabber
    • KIROFM 97.3
      Multi-format: news and nearly all local talk. This is where classic KIRO AM news talk radio went... hopefully, not to die. The home of Dave Ross & Luke Burbank, Dori Monson, Ron & Don, Frank Shiers, Bill Radke, Linda Thomas, Tony Miner and George Noory.
    • KUOW FM 94.9
      Seattle's foremost public radio news and talk.
    • KVI am 570 KHz
      Visit the burnt-out husk of one of the seminal right-wing talkers in all the land. Here's where once trilled the reactionary tones of Rush Limbaugh, John Carlson, Kirby Wilbur, Mike Siegel, Peter Weissbach, Floyd Brown, Dinky Donkey, and Bryan Suits. Now it's Top 40 hits from the '60's & '70's aimed at that diminishing crowd who still remembers them and can still hear.
    • KTTH am 770 KHz
      Right wing home of local, and a whole bunch of syndicated righties such as Glennn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Medved, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Lars Larsony, and for an hour a day: live & local David Boze.
    • KPTK am 1090 KHz
      Syndicated liberal talk. Stephanie Miller, Thom Hartmann, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, Norman Goldman fill in the large hole to the left on Northwest radio dial.
    • KLFE AM 1590 kHz
      Syndicated right-wing 2nd stringers like Mark Levin, Bill Bennett, Mike Gallagher, Dennis Prager, Dennis Miller and Hugh Hewitt inhabit this timid-voiced neighbor honker for your radio enjoyment (unless you're behind something large like Costco).
    • KOMOAM
      News, traffic, Ken Schram and John Carlson.
    • Washington State Radio Stations
      Comprehensive list of every danged AM & FM station on the dial.
    • KKOL am 1300 KHz
      Once a rabid right-wing talker, except for Lou Dobbs, it's all business....