Ron sims kicks hutcherson ass in christian brawl

They ran off The Devil last night over at Town Hall.

But who was The Devil and who was doing the running was a matter of perspective; and both perspectives were capably presented and each had its own hallelujah choir packing the hall.

It was County Executive Ron Sims and Rev. Ken Hutcherson debating the question, "Is the gay rights movement the new civil rights movement?" It was an entertaining evening.

Hutcherson is the black former Seahawk cum Eastside megachurch preacher who led local and national anti-gay rallies; and bullied Microsoft last year to defeat a gay rights bill in the Legislature. He's a friend of Rush Limbaugh, and James Dobson and a charismatic Christian zealot with the charm and temperament of one of the Rottweillers he raises.

(Hutcherson also has a German-made wife, raises Arabian Horses and a small herd of chirrens on his Woodinville estate). 

Sims, a seasoned politician and policy virtuoso who just won a third term, is an ordained Baptist himself, and just as black. But there's a world of difference between them- their Christianities are like brothers of a different mother or twins who wouldn't recognize each other if they met on the street.

In 2004, Sims encouraged gay couples to sue King County because gay marriage is not legal. He did that to send the matter to the state Supreme Court, where it yet awaits a decision. That alarmed Hutcherson and inspired him to organize his "Mayday for Marriage" rally in Safeco Field which drew 20,000 souls from around the state and another in Washington DC just before the 2004 election which brought out around 150,000.

BlatherWatch filed into one of the tiny backstage blue rooms with Sims, and his communications guy, Sandeep Kaushik to wait for the show to begin. Sims was his amiable self, chatting easily about general topics that might arise in the debate ahead.

The event was sponsored by The Stranger, the idea of News Editor Josh Feit, who was nervously haunting the back hall. Feit said he'd lost arguments for years playing devil's advocate to each of the reverends, so he figured, "What the hell, let's get 'em together." It was a pretty good idea and Town Hall had to move the event into the large auditorium which ended up packed. 

Stranger Editor Dan Savage dropped by but had to leave early to get home to read to his son TJ, the spawn of his same sex marriage that Rev. Hutcherson is pretty sure he'll eventually burn in an eternal lake of fire for. Savage seemed relaxed considering all that...(we've always wondered, how do they keep that lake of fire going? Old tires? Presto logs?)

KING TV's Robert Mak, who was refereeing the debate dropped in and announced the format. There was to be an introduction from each man and after that, pretty much- no structure. Sims said, "No structure? Hey, I'm a Democrat..."

They gave us the signal and we filed out into the narrow hallway where we ran into Hutcherson and his posse. His church is mostly white- it's held, after all, in Kirkland's Lake Washington High School gym. They scare up some 3000 worshipers in two sessions of a Sunday morning.

His security help were thuggish in the way only fundamentalist Christian security can be- pushy, white, dressed in Christian gangsta wear, and earpieces that might have been iPods filled with Antonius or direct links to the White House basement. They gave out those vibes, the kind we'd gotten off the homeys guarding Jerry Falwell we saw once at a Sizzler in Pasco.

As we moved down the passageway, Sims and Hutcherson, both big men about equal in size who'd never before met, made small talk about blood pressure and diabetes, and working out every day after you're 50, and everyone was really getting along.

Out on the stage the two sat down on high stools with a table of water bottles between them and Mak made the toss-up.

Sims mades an eloquent speech about experiencing the hurt and pain of bigotry in his boyhood in Spokane and his decision to go into public life to help make it so that it doesn't have to happen to anyone else.

It's Hutcherson's turn and he hauls out his giant dick and makes it a pissing match. HE grew up in Alabama, HIS life no "Disney movie," and he was beaten, shot at, and many of his friends got hanged. He ended with, "I want to prove that God is right and Rev. Sims is wrong."

The crowd, predictably was mostly Sims people- it was downtown Seattle after all- but the preacher had brought a busload which comprised about a third of the auditorium and they were noisier than the liberals, so the huzzah for the scrapping titans was about equal. It got loud, there were shouts and speaking out. At one point, Sims called out, "Excuse me, church folk! as he was being heckled.
(which shamed them and they shut up- church folk like these really respond to shame, which is a good thing to remember).

The philosophical action on the stage cut to the kuken pretty darn fast; escalating many times to arm-waving, finger-pointing and interrupting. Sims argued that this was a civil issue about the rights of individuals under the law- rights that if left up to being decided by plebiscite, we'd still have "separate but equal." He said this country was founded on the principle that all kinds of minorities be protected from the majority and citizens be free from imposition by an "overbearing clergy."

Hutcherson, the very embodiment of an "overbearing clergy," said, "In a democracy if we win, we get to impose our will on you and if you win, you can impose your will on us;" and maintained that butt sex and cocksucking are sins and not a right and those that practice them deserve no rights.

And so it went with Hutcherson trotting out his time-tested sound bites and one liners like "I've met many ex-gays, but I've never met an ex-black."  Or "When I die, he says I want to meet God and hear him say,  'You've done well- not, 'you're well done.'"

Then it was over and Ron Sims had won. Why do we say that? Because it he was righteous and eloquent and passionate and we agree with him. No minds were changed tonight. Everyone got what they wanted, except Hutch, perhaps, who wanted to win some souls to Christ.

Stranger reporter, Erica C. Barnett was in the audience and put it better than we could, "It was like they were yelling at each other in different languages."

Later over drinks at The Hideaway, up on Boren, Sims observed about Hutcherson, "There's a lot of anger there." We had to agree.

Comments

[Seabeck]

"His security help were thuggish in the way only fundamentalist Christian security can be- pushy, white, dressed in Christian gangsta wear, and earpieces that might have been iPods filled with Antonius or direct links to the White House basement."

Where can I get Christian gangsta wear?

With this Town Meeting pre-empt the Oscars on Sunday night? (God I hope so).

[sparky]

wow...its kinda hard to have my eyes assaulted by the words "butt sex" over my scrambled eggs...

But, I was wondering what you think about that idea the former owner of Dominos Pizza is floating around about having an All-Catholic town in Florida which will have the highest cross in the country, as well as a town charter that will forbid gays, birth control of any kind, abortion, and HBO???

[Seabeck]

Antonius:

"Famous lover of the Egyptian queen Cleopatra who committed suicide by a snake bite in 30 BC and who ruled Rome with Octavianus (Augustus)."

Any blog that makes be go back to the dictionary cannot be a bad thing.

[Trip]

I say let all these religious kooks start their own communes and villages so they can stay the hell away from me, and stop trying to tell me what movies I can or can't see, and how evil naked boobs are.

Like the joke goes...I hope the Rapture happens soon, so we can get all their stuff.

[sparky]

Trip..did you know the fines for CBS showing Janet Jackson's tit are vastly higher than the yet-to-be-collected fines from the owners of the mines where the miners were killed?

Interesting bit of trivia

[blathering michael]

Seabeck IAntonius is also a Christian rapper- but don't let that keep you away from the dictionary.

Sparky, thought youda learned by now about reading blatherWatch and eating scrambled eggs.

[Trip]

I'm not at all surprised about the fines to CBS over Janet Jackson's bodacious yabos. This is what happens when moonbat right-wingers run the whole show.

The mining company was doing God's work in exploiting dangerous work and maintaining their bottom line, like any good American corporation should.

CBS was using their bully pulpit and forcing their smut into our faces when our children were watching. God forbid they see ladies' naughties...but it's perfectly OK to send em to work under the mountain without, you know, air.

[rwdavis]

There is one thing to remember: What is The Pastor is right and Sims is wrong? What if you have to spend eternity in hell, as described in the Bible, and have to think over and over about the choices you made that put you there? Hell was for the Devil and his angels. Man was never supposed to have to join him.

[Nick]

Mr. Hood. You sir, are a moron. Let me prove it to you:

"pushy, white, dressed in Christian gangsta wear."

Oh, really? That's why Hutch's bodyguard is a black man who was dressed in Khaki's?

"Hauls out his giant dick."

Wow. Affirms my statement above.

"Excuse me, church folk!"

Yeah, that was about the dumbest thing Sims could say, because the last time I checked, Sims was a Baptist Reverend (ha!). Isn't he technically "church folk" too? I guess not. And no, that didn't shut us up. If you were watching, a man in the front row stood up and said "That's right! We are church folk!" to Sims.

"Then it was over and Ron Sims had won."

Haha, that's hilarious. Did you not see Sims dodge every theological question Hutcherson threw at him? It was ridiculous.

[Nick]

By the way, Seabeck, Antonious is a Christian rapper. Not a very good one, but still.

[lukobe]

I like boobs, so I guess I won't be moving to that Florida town. But on that subject, sparky wrote "But, I was wondering what you think about that idea the former owner of Dominos Pizza is floating around about having an All-Catholic town in Florida which will have the highest cross in the country, as well as a town charter that will forbid gays, birth control of any kind, abortion, and HBO???"

Surely you exaggerate. I don't think a town charter can forbid all that stuff.

[Andrew]

Someone is also trying to make South Carolina a Christian state. I hope they succeed because if we can have specificly faith based states then we can also have specificly non-faith based states by the same precedent.

[Andrew]

Hutcherson,...(alegedly) said "In a democracy if we win, we get to impose our will on you and if you win, you can impose your will on us"

Once upon a time slavery was popular with the majority, yet through some magical means it was abolished. How did that happen?

[Ivan]

rwdavis:

Listen up, moron. Ron Sims is not there to debate theology with a clergyman. Who cares what Hutcherson's theology is? We're talking about public policy here, and Hutcherson's attempts to make public policy based on his theology, and to ram it down the throats of people who do not share that theology.

[wanderer]

Hey Nick

Your email address is interesting...are you a child molester?... you're not a self-loathing homosexual are you?

[lukobe]

andrew sez: "Someone is also trying to make South Carolina a Christian state. I hope they succeed because if we can have specificly faith based states then we can also have specificly non-faith based states by the same precedent."

I hope you're kidding about hoping they succeed...methinks you are

There's also a project to make New Hampshire a Libertarian state -- http://www.freestateproject.org/ -- that has a better chance of succeeding, though probably not much

[Andrew]

Update: State bill proposes Christianity be Missouri’s official religion

I'm dead serious. I'm the kind of person who thinks we have to go backwards before we go forwards. As long as this isn't happening to a blue state I don't realy give a damn.

I'm realy curious what kind of rewards those states are in for by becoming sectarian. It could put the debate over seperation of church and state to an end realy fast as well as more clearly define its importance and purpose.

[Ivan]

Oops, I meant Nick, not rwdavis. Apologies for misreading.

[sparky]

Lukobe, I will provide the link for you. I even chose the link to Fox News to show that even they are reporting this. The town, to be named Ave Maria, does not exist at this moment..but its the DREAM of this man who was raised by nuns and wants to live in a town where there is no sin. Pretty good trick if you could actually pull it off! Jebby Bush was part of the groundbreaking ceremony too!

Entrepreneurs might want to set up liquor stores on the edges of town!

[sparky]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186202,00.html

There is your link!

[lukobe]

andrew wrote: "Update: State bill proposes Christianity be Missouri’s official religion

I'm dead serious. I'm the kind of person who thinks we have to go backwards before we go forwards. As long as this isn't happening to a blue state I don't realy give a damn."

That is completely divisive. I expect better from Democrats.

BTW, didn't you hear, it's all purple? (Visit http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/ and scroll down.)

Remember: St. Louis and Kansas City ("blue") are in Missouri ("red"), just like Eastern Washington ("red") is in Washington ("blue").

It's not all black-and-white (or red-and-blue).

[Nick]

Hey Wanderer, grow up.

[wanderer]

Hey Nick

You didn't answer my question...maybe you and Ken's other sheep should spend a little more time saving yourselves first

[Steve]

I still can't believe anyone would support that guy Sims who sues himself and King County, wasting away more money that could go to some better use than protecting perverse acts of sex. I wonder if Sims jumped off a bridge if his followers would jump to.

[joanie]

Sparky,
"But, I was wondering what you think about that idea the former owner of Dominos Pizza is floating around about having an All-Catholic town in Florida which will have the highest cross in the country, as well as a town charter that will forbid gays, birth control of any kind, abortion, and HBO???"

Actually, I say go ahead. I can't wait to see their divorce rate, illegitimate birth rate, and probably "death by gunshot" rate go off the charts. Might be kind of fun! Then HBO could produce a series called "Desperate Catholics." or "Priests go Wild" which, of course, they would all be watching on their covert HBO receptors.

[sparky]

Well I dont know about any of that...but I read somewhere that Utah leads in the pack in viewing porn, so I think if someone set up little " sin shops" around the perimeter of Ave Maria, they would do a good business :-)

[joanie]

Coincidentally, Jay Leno just made a joke about our already having that town and it is called "Utah." :)

[ExDem]

Sad that people's reaction to the idea of town trying to live a faith-filled, pure life is to hope for its failure.

[Seabeck]

The "ass-whoopin" will be shown on Up Front with Robert Mak Sunday, March 5th at 4:30pm (KING TV) and 10:30PM (KONG TV) and 8:00PM NWCN.

[qgoog]

Wow, Nick's awful young. His profile on the Jesus Project is at http://www.jesusproject.com/jesusproject/jpimscreeninfo.cfm?gatekey=14759805&fromdetails=Y

And he's supposedly a member of the 10th Airborne Division; check my link below for more info.

[thump]

"Sad that people's reaction to the idea of town trying to live a faith-filled, pure life is to hope for its failure."

It's a sad thing that abstinence-only sex ed leads to higher STD and pregnancy rates than the real version, but you've made your cross, now nail yourself to it. (Caution: takes two hands for the last nail.)

[sparky]

along those same lines...
Parents Complain About Book's Undertones

Sat Mar 4, 12:22 PM ET

A children's book about two male penguins that raise a baby penguin has been moved to the nonfiction section of two public library branches after parents complained it had homosexual undertones.

The illustrated book, "And Tango Makes Three," is based on a true story of two male penguins, named Roy and Silo, who adopted an abandoned egg at New York City's Central Park Zoo in the late 1990s.

The book, written by Peter Parnell and Justin Richardson, was moved from the children's section at two Rolling Hills' Consolidated Library's branches in Savannah and St. Joseph in northwest Missouri.

Two parents had expressed concerns about the book last month.

Barbara Read, the Rolling Hills' director, said experts report that adoptions aren't unusual in the penguin world. However, moving the book to the nonfiction section would decrease the chance that it would "blindside" readers, she said.

[joanie]

"Two parents had expressed concerns about the book last month."

Well, ExDem, here's your "majority" of two!

This is part of the dumbing down of America. I wonder how low we can go?

[sparky]

Ooops looks like he misspoke:

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) - The founder of Domino's Pizza backtracked Friday from earlier comments that he'd like to establish a new town in Florida governed by strict Roman Catholic principles, denying access to birth control and pornography.

Thomas S. Monaghan has pledged $250 million to establish Ave Maria, a town 25 miles east of Naples built around a the first new Catholic university in the United States in four decades. Both the town and the university, founded by Monaghan, are set to open next year.

``There's a lot of misconceptions about this. I don't really have a vision for the town. I have a vision for the university,'' Monaghan said Friday on ABC's ``Good Morning America.''

Last year he told a a Catholic men's group in Boston that pornographic magazines won't be sold in town, pharmacies won't carry condoms or birth control pills, and cable television will carry no X-rated channels. Monaghan said Friday those comments were ``out of place.''

``The town is open to anybody,'' Monaghan said. ``The university - it's a different story. It will be primarily Catholic.'' Monaghan sold Domino's Pizza in 1998.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Florida promised lawsuits if the proposals were to become law. Florida Attorney General Charlie Crist said he saw nothing that violated state law in Monaghan's proposals.

``We do not discriminate against anyone,'' said Paul Marinelli, CEO of Barron Collier, an agricultural and real estate firm that is developing the town in partnership with Monaghan.

Marinelli said it will be requested that stores not sell contraceptives, but the sale of birth control won't be restricted. He said the town would not bar access to any cable television program, but the town will not have adult bookstores or topless clubs.

``We're not trying to create a city with walls around it that isolates from the world,'' Marinelli said.

The community will be set on 5,000 acres with a massive church and a 65-foot tall crucifix at the center of town.

[joanie]

I watched the debate and no one won. They communicated just like we do. Each one's talk went right past the other one.

Of course, I'm on the left and think Sims was more "American" in that he put his civil responsibilities above his religious responsibilities and kept his religious commitment to his private life.

Hutcherson kept trying to show that Sims was not following his Christian faith by subordinating it to his civil duties.

I said "American" because I thought we were supposed to be a nation that separated church and state. I don't mean it in a pejorative way towards Hutcherson at all.

But, again, we cannot seem to communicate anymore. It is really too bad. I admit to having difficulty changing my beliefs so I guess I can't expect others to change theirs easily either.

But, I do think my beliefs and values are much kinder and provide for the common good of all people more than do those represented on the Hutcherson side.

I'm sure somebody out there will tell me how wrong I am but I'm just as sure they won't back it up with any specifics!

[joanie]

Not that anybody cares, but the debate is on again on the Seattle channel - 21. It was on two channels at the same time over the weekend: 21 and 23 (Seattle Channel and TVW. Talk about overkill! I've seen this or should I say avoided seeing it at least nine or ten times since it first aired!

Enough already!