take your answer off the air...

  • HorsesAss.Org: the straight poop on WA politics & the press
    progressive brilliance from the guy who pointed out Tim Eyman's nascent horse's-assedness
  • Talker's Magazine
    The quirky talk radio trade mag. Check the Talk Radio Research Project- it's not very scientific, but places on the top 15 talkers list (scroll down to Talk Radio Audiences By Size)) are as hotly contested as Emmys (and mean just about as much).
  • The Advocate
    No, not THAT Advocate... it's the Northwest Progressive Institute's Official Blog.
  • Media Matters
    Documentation of right-wing media in video, audio and text.
  • Orcinus
    home of David Neiwert, freelance investigative journalist and author who writes extensively about far-right hate groups
  • Hominid Views
    "People, politics, science, and whatnot" Darryl is a statistician who fights imperialism with empiricism, gives good links and wry commentary.
  • Jesus' General
    An 11 on the Manly Scale of Absolute Gender, a 12 on the Heavenly Scale of the 10 Commandments and a 6 on the earthly scale of the Immaculately Groomed.
  • Howie in Seattle
    Howie Martin is the Abe Linkin' of progressive Seattle.
  • Streaming Radio Guide
    Hellishly long (5795!) list of radio streaming, steaming on the Internets.
  • The Naked Loon
    News satire -- The Onion in the Seattle petunia patch.
  • Irrational Public Radio
    "informs, challenges, soothes and/or berates, and does so with a pleasing vocal cadence and unmatched enunciation. When you listen to IPR, integrity washes over you like lava, with the pleasing familiarity of a medium-roast coffee and a sensible muffin."
  • The Maddow Blog
    Here's the hyper-interactive La Raych of MSNBC. daily show-vids, freakishly geeky research, and classy graphics.
  • Northwest Broadcasters
    The AM, FM, TV and digital broadcasters of Northwest Washington, USA and Southwest British Columbia, Canada. From Kelso, WA to the northern tip of Vancouver Island, BC - call letters, formats, slogans, networks, technical data, and transmitter maps. Plus "recent" news.
  • News Corpse
    The Internet's chronicle of media decay.
  • The Moderate Voice
    The voice of reason in the age of Obama, and the politics of the far-middle.
  • News Hounds
    Dogged dogging of Fox News by a team who seems to watch every minute of the cable channel so you don't have to.
  • HistoryLink
    Fun to read and free encyclopedia of Washington State history. Founded by the late Walt Crowley, it's an indispensable tool and entertainment source for history wonks and surfers alike.

right-wing blogs we like

  • The Reagan Wing
    Hearin lies the real heart of Washington State Republicans. Doug Parris runs this red-meat social conservative group site which bars no holds when it comes to saying who they are and who they're not; what they believe and what they don't; who their friends are and where the rest of the Republicans can go. Well-written, and flaming.
  • Orbusmax
    inexhaustible Drudgery of NW conservative news
  • The Radio Equalizer
    prolific former Seattle KVI, KIRO talk host speaks authoritatively about radio.
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« air america needs you | Main | talk radio initiative runs out of gas »

November 08, 2005

Comments

AVNorthwest

"If it is defeated, it will be because the opposition had to spend many millions of dollars to get the information to the voters to overcome the daily barrage of misinformation the supporters were able to serve up for free."

I disagree. If it is defeated, it will have been because there was an enormous grassroots effort to fight the initiative. For weeks, PCOs have been out banging on doors asking voters to vote no on 912. Advertising helps, but if we win, it's because of the voter to voter contact. We'll know tonight.

Andrew

I didn't notice until I received my ballot that there is an initiative for the state auditor to look for inneficiency and waste and various departments. That's what we've needed all along.

The gas tax repealers are unhappy because the money is supposedly misused, well here's the answer to your problems.

But now you've gone and done it, if the anti-roads initiative passes it will do nothing but deal additional damage to regional transportation.

It surely won't help the local economy, Boeing is leaving the state because traffic sucks and I'm sure they will see this as a big card with a ribbon that says GO AWAY on it.

ExDem

The supporters of I-912 live here and have to deal with the traffic. They want solutions to the gridlock and aging infrastructure too.

So ask yourself this question:

Why are there so many people that are willing to support an initiative that would pull back tax revenues that are supposed to go toward fixing those problems?

Is it another example of how the voters are ignorant? Or that they willingly like to vote against their own self interests because KVI tells them to? Or that they are needlessly paranoid about the State Government?

Or is it simply a statement from people that they don't trust our State Government who used an "emergency clause" to pass these taxes? Or that money that is supposed to be dedicated to building roads only managed to build about 40 miles of new road from 2000 - 2004? Or that they don't want the state investing precious highway dollars on more HOV lanes instead of general use lanes?

Perhaps we all want better highways and to relieve the traffic congestion. Perhaps we have some different views on how to best accomplish it, including how much we can trust a legislature without a solid record in this area. It will be an interesting night watching the returns come in on this initiative.....

Andrew

I don't get it. Why are conservatives always advocating the greedy sonofabitch position of any issue? They don't want mass tranist, they want more capacity for individual cars. They don't want to let woman decide wether abortion is moral for themselves. They want tax cuts. They don't want to fund social programs. If it sounds extremely greedy, it's probably a conservative value to.

You're losing credibilty with me. Every stand you take has one thing in common, it serves you and hurts other people.

Why are you such greedy bastards?

Andrew

I don't get it. Why are conservatives always advocating the greedy sonofabitch position of any issue? They don't want mass tranist, they want more capacity for individual cars. They don't want to let woman decide wether abortion is moral for themselves. They want tax cuts. They don't want to fund social programs. If it sounds extremely greedy, it's probably a conservative value to.

You're losing credibilty with me. Every stand you take has one thing in common, it serves you and hurts other people.

Why are you such greedy bastards?

Andrew

I don't get it. Why are conservatives always advocating the greedy sonofabitch position of any issue? They don't want mass tranist, they want more capacity for individual cars. They don't want to let woman decide wether abortion is moral for themselves. They want tax cuts. They don't want to fund social programs. If it sounds extremely greedy, it's probably a conservative value to.

You're losing credibilty with me. Every stand you take has one thing in common, it serves you and hurts other people.

Why are you such greedy bastards?

chris

912 might have more credibility with the voters had Eyeman not made a previous midnight run to the post office to collect his paycheck

chris

912 might have more credibility with the voters had Eyeman not made a previous midnight run to the post office to collect his paycheck

ExDem

Andrew,

You're rhetoric is symbolic of why the political discourse is so broken nowadays. A few things I have trouble with:

1) I didn't take a personal position in my last post. I posed the kinds of questions that run through people's heads regarding this issue. Somehow, you then call me one of the "greedy bastards". Huh?

2) When an opposing view point is raised, you somehow drag a bunch of unrelated items into the discussion. Suddenly, a discussion about an initiative to roll back a tax hike starts to include abortion and social programs. Huh?

3) Use of verbal attacks that are personal or judgmental. Somehow, those that disagree with you are labeled as "greedy sonofabitch" or "greedy bastards".

I guess I'm going to draw a benign conclusion for the moment, and give you the benefit of the doubt. My guess is that you like to stir the pot in these annonymous, online forums. As a result, you say outlandish things that represent an unrealistic worldview or are intended to provoke some type of reaction from the audience. So, for the moment, I'll assume you are a decent enough person and that you are just clowning around on this forum.

As an aside, I have no problem with the YES on I-912 side because I'm sympathetic to their concerns. The state government, in my opinion, has been out of touch with the constituents for the past decade when it comes to transportation needs and desires. If they were doing a better job, these initiatives wouldn't ever get started in the first place, much less get passed so often.

Andrew

I wasn't realy reponding to you specificly, that just an honest question. Why do conservative positions coincide with greey positions?

Here's a specific response: you say we simply disagree on how to best fix the roads but you don't realy want to get into how repealing the gas tax "helps", you dwell on emergency sessions and upset voters rather than the issue of how to actualy fix roads. I'll say it again: oversight. Initiative 900 I believe it is.

You can't knock me for using colorfull language to characterize my oponents. For one thing I hate conservative activists so I'm so motivated. Plus Hannity and Coulter do essentialy same thing so I feel it necessary to hold up a mirror so you can see the type of vitriol we have to deal with in the mainstream media.

Trip

It's so funny to see right-wingers point fingers at liberals and complain that WE'RE the reason political discourse is broken.

Harry Reid and Senate Democrats made the first visible signs of a Democratic pulse in YEARS last week. It was so surprising it dominated the news cycle for a full 24 hours...!

Republicans own every piece of the government and the message, yet it's liberals that are to blame for the "broken discourse"?!

Maybe it's not the discourse that's broken, but perceptions of reality...

chris

They said they were going to change the 'tone' and bring 'integrity' to the white house.

ExDem

Trip/Chris,

Why is it that people on this blog consistently project their own biases into what gets posted? I didn't accuse liberals OR conservatives of being responsible for the polluted discourse. Yet, you immediately jump out and cry about "right wingers pointing fingers. Maybe if I was a psychologist, I could analyze why you jump to erroneous conclusions or interpretations. I'm not, so I won't venture there.

chris

Ex dem, their 'biases' are no more opinions than yours are. As far as the previous comment, those are the words that the current admin used for election purposes, so they are valid points for reference.

ExDem

My point is that people have a tendency to inject things into the discussion that didn't appear in the original post. I don't mind that people have their own opinions. I'm just tired of them reading something that isn't written. If I wanted to claim that political discourse was ruined by liberals alone, then I would say that. In this case, I didn't say that.

JDB

As of midnight, and time for bed:

912 losing by over 5% point. So KVI wasted all that air time and lost tons of listeners for nothing. That’s got to hurt.

http://vote.wa.gov/election/2005/general/measures.aspx

Trip

"You're rhetoric is symbolic of why the political discourse is so broken nowadays."

Now, that post came from someone by the name of "ExDem". How the hell could I POSSIBLY have mistaken that for obviously neutral, unbiased, objective commentary?!

Andrew

Yay, I-900 passed, which was basicly an IQ test, if you voted for it you are smart and if you didn't you are stupid.

They said on the news that Boeing and Microsoft pitched in funds against I-912 at the last second puting the oposition fund at more than three million to the proponent's six hundred thousand. That's definitive evidence of their position on this issue.

Oh conservatives have egg on their faces! It's not every day you see conservatives stab local industry in the back like that. These companies sided with liberals in a matter of business operation which is where the pen meets the check book. They don't mess around either, money talks, and here local conservatives tried to piss on their leg. Rural mouth breathing gun nuts, friends of no one.

Andrew

Conservative = selfish. I don't think that's off topic. I think it's relevant to these discussions because conservatives claim they support the greater good through what seem to be selfish motives on the surface(cutting taxes and social programs), and that in the long run they are suposedly beneficial, but it seems that for EVERY problem we face you prescribe selfishness as the cure.

For every social need we have you want a privatized solution where a business profiteer can convenianty catch the money as it falls into the collection plate.

Therefor I call into question your motives on these specific issues. You say repeal the gas tax because it will help us in the long run. I call bullshit. You just want cheaper gas.

But who cares, this will be historical musings soon.

Ron

Hey KIRO, Initiative 912 failed, conservative tax cutting talk show hosts are irrelevant, lose Dori.

Thank you very much.

ExDem

Remember, there's a principle in play with the devotees to this blog - "Might doesn't make right."

Of course, if you follow that principle then I guess you might claim that initiatives and candidates that failed to get a majority of votes are still "right". I don't subscribe to that principle - I believe in elections in this country and I believe that results count. The people have spoken, time to move on. But the state government should take a clue from their constituents. When 57% of the people vote in performance audits (overcoming the inertia of the legislature) and 47% of the state votes to repeal a huge tax increase, then our state government needs to realize that they are not in sync with the people they represent.

chris

If the 48% to 51% presidential election is similar, then it applies to Bush not having a mandate, from what I understand your reference to the gas tax vote.

ExDem

No, I disagree. Like I said, when the people speak, it's time to move on. The mandate now exists to raise those gas taxes and put money into those transportation projects. The people that lost on I-912 will now get on with things. They won't waste their time protesting in the streets, burning state of Washington flags, calling Christine Gregoire the next coming of Hitler, etc. A lot of the people that lost the last 2 presidential elections are having trouble doing the same thing.

There isn't a mechanism in place for the general population to initiate a presidential election. So it's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. I would consider your comparison the same if the president was appointed by the Congress first, and then the people could sign enough petitions to force the government to conduct an election instead. When it comes to presidential elections, the people get to vote and our electoral system works. When we elect a President, that winner has whatever mandate they choose to claim. If the Congress and Senate aren't in support of that President, then the natural checks and balances will limit someone from reaching too far. To me, it appears that the Democrats are having trouble accepting the fact that they have been losing elections for the past 10 years and now have been relegated to be the minority party by the people of this country.

sparky

The minority party just kicked 912 and all of Ahnold's initiatives in the ass...
works for me

sparky

In addition, intelligent designers on Dover school board were swept out en masse by the city's voters. Eight sane Dems swept out eight fundamentalists. In Maine, an anti-gay ballot initiative failed. In both New Jersey and Virginia Democrats gained seats in the state legislatures, in addition to electing and re-electing governors.

did I mention that ALL of Arnold's initiatives failed?
Being in the minority can be a good thing.

ExDem

Works for me, as long as the liberals are not in charge of security of the country. The American people have spoken quite clearly on this matter - they don't trust the Democrats to protect them or to fight terrorists.

I think local governments and states should be granted all powers not expressly stated as "federal" in the Constitution. That's what the Constitution says anyway.

Trip

"Works for me, as long as the liberals are not in charge of security of the country. The American people have spoken quite clearly on this matter - they don't trust the Democrats to protect them or to fight terrorists."

As opposed to Republicans, who built their entire party image around their grand national security image, consisting of:

a) ignoring MANY 9/11 warnings

b) allowing the loss of an entire American city due to their cronyism and incompetence

c) blowing the cover of a CIA asset in a time of war, for political retribution, and then attempting to cover it up

d) Lying bald-faced to the American people and the world to justify the subsequent undermanned and incompetently managed occupation of a country that was not a threat to us

e)Ran up massive deficits through ill-advised tax cuts to pay for it all, allowing the Chinese to own our debts

Sorry - we've seen how well the Republicans manage our security which is to say, not at all.

Perhaps this is why their approval ratings are in the dumper and that Democrats in red states are easily beating Republicans in local races nationwide.

Apparently for the voters out there, it's really isn't all that hard to spell "D-I-S-C-R-E-D-I-T-E-D" on their ballots...

sparky

Don't forget the ONE ( 1) uno Oregon State Policeman who is charged with patrolling all 400 some miles of the Oregon Coast for Homeland Security.

I feel so much safer...especially with Bushie's good buddy who is in charge of protecting us from the Avian Flu....

chris

And don't forget Miers new job at the WH, teaching ethics 5 years after Bush got the job...

ExDem

I feel safer. So far, by my count, it's been 1,520 days since a terrorist attack on US soil.

Sucks to be Al Queda these days, unless you like hiding in caves in remote regions of Pakistan or getting hunted down by Iraqi police and Coalition service men. Of course, for people that want America to fail in their mission, that last sentence might be a bit unsettling.

sparky

Where IS that Osama guy anyway?

chris

Yeah, let's hear it for the Iraqis who work for the police by day and moonlight shooting at soldiers at night. Why not look for al quesedia in Saudi Arabia? Ooops, too close to Bandar Bush for comfort.

ExDem

Good question - where is Osama? Seems like no one knows where he is, not even the evil people that want to work with him. Guess he's been rendered ineffective. If he's not dead, it seems like he's as good as dead. You just don't hear from him any more. I hope that fact doesn't upset any of you too much.

sparky

I was more upset when I heard President Bush, on national TV, tell a group of reporters, " I dont think too much about Osama anymore."

Please tell that to the families of the World Trade Tower victims, the families of those on the planes, and the families who have given up sons and daughters, moms and dads and husbands and wives to an illegal war that had nothing to do with Osama in the first place.

Happy Veteran's Day, Mr. President.

chris

Yep, Bush never was interested in the job of finding him when they tried to link 9/11 to Iraq and couldn't at the time. So instead of 3,000 killed, it's now up to 5,200 Americans dead. Bush and Cheney slept on intellegence during Sept 11th and now has the decision to save face or continue with the disaster that is Iraq...

ExDem

It must be frustrating to seethe with rage against the administration, and then wake up to realize that the majority of your fellow citizens re-elected this President. Even though they know every single point you raise in your rants and criticisms. They still voted for these people.

At any point, do you ever step back from yourself and ask, "Is there something wrong with me?" or "How come I'm outside the mainstream?" or "Why do my candidates and causes lose at the ballot box?" or "Why don't the majority of citizens trust people that think like me to run the country?"

sparky

Ex Dem,.....you need to watch something other than Fox news....lol..

ExDem

I don't have cable, so I don't watch Fox News. Nice try, but another swing and a miss. In a way, I can sympathize with you and your cohorts - it has to be difficult to face up to tough questions like those and not have satisfying answers. Again, your disagreements aren't with me, they're with the rest of your countrymen.....

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    • KUOW FM 94.9
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