The budget fight last night exposed once again the longstanding myth that the tea-party is only about deficits 'n' shit. The plain truth is that they're far outside the American public in such religious right issues as abortion, marriage equality, even birth control.
And they're bent on legislative solutions of these so-called problems.
As Rachel would say: How's that small government thing working for you?
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
They may be stuck on biblical stuff - sort of like a lot of extremist Muslims - but how did they get so much influence and power? I keep hearing there are more of us than there are of them so how can they be succeeding in moving us from a secular republic to a religious cult?
Obama should have let those tax cuts expire.
Posted by: joanie | April 09, 2011 at 10:27 AM
Because of the incredible amount of time the media gives them...the crazy wing of the tea party makes GREAT television, so the crazier they are, the more air time they get. And since it is on TV, and most voters are totally unaware of what happens outside of their cul-de-sac, they believe what they see on TV and vote accordingly. A lot of the women I work with detest politics and will not even watch the news. They are prime targets for what their church tells them to think.
Posted by: sparky | April 09, 2011 at 10:56 AM
Or the latest advertisement from a group called Americans for Prosperity or some other faux Koch-owned label.
And who owns the media?
I've been watching The National. It's refreshing to see both sides of issues and corrections to "truthiness" actually being made by professional journalists.
Let me see . . first there was Thatcher and Reagan and now there's Harper. I hope Canada takes a lesson from its declining neighbor to the south.
Posted by: joanie | April 09, 2011 at 11:29 AM
Sparky, one more week to spring break for me! I'm glad it's later this year. Hopefully, the weather will improve and that long, long last journey to the end will be shorter. I have my bag packed with homework to correct, new curriculum to read and the last science kit to coordinate! Some vacation, huh? At least I can do it in BB.
I missed Maddow's April 7 program. Did she talk about the Wisconsin debacle? I was listening to GoldMAN and a caller said he used to work with her. She was overwhelmingly anti-abortion. He said when she sent him out for a bite to eat, she would add "and we've got to stop killing babies!" Doesn't that sound like a zealot to you? Zealots will do anything . . .
Also did you listen to Brad in for Malloy. Great show last night. Basically, he said Dems don't seem to care if voting machines work. I guess they don't. I don't get it.
Posted by: joanie | April 09, 2011 at 11:38 AM
This was my week...got lots done once the sun came out...I need another week of nice weather to get a headstart on all the yard projects on the farm.
Posted by: sparky | April 09, 2011 at 01:19 PM
Hey Sparky, still having a hard time phrasing that question. Times running out. You of all people know how short Progressives memories are.
Posted by: ProgBlogJunky | April 09, 2011 at 06:46 PM
Why should Planned Parenthood get tax payer funding at all?
They provide services...
People should pay for the services they get.
Posted by: Rat_Bastard | April 09, 2011 at 06:55 PM
Because it makes our society more civil as in civilized. I don't think you people on the right get that, do you?
Posted by: joanie | April 09, 2011 at 08:05 PM
"Why should Planned Parenthood get tax payer funding at all?
They provide services...
People should pay for the services they get."
Because many people, such as the person whose letter was read in the video, can't afford it. They call it "compassion", or something. It's an odd concept that hasn't been popular since the swing era.
Posted by: Andrew | April 09, 2011 at 08:31 PM
Find it funny how Christians who are all about morals'n'shit are willing to lie in order to save babies. Because apparently the truth on it's own can't save the babies.
Posted by: Andrew | April 09, 2011 at 08:33 PM
Sex is a choice, not a right.
People can pay for the choices they make.
There have been free condoms available and still, people decide they don't want to use them.
The problem here is that too many people think that they can hold others hostage to the decisions they make.
And, no... I'm not talking about "rape" here...
At least 99% percent of "unplanned pregnancies" are the result of selfish, lazy behavior.
Posted by: Rat_Bastard | April 09, 2011 at 10:07 PM
That "selfish, lazy behavior" is called human nature, and it's not about to change.
Services like those provided by Planned Parenthood aren't justified by government agencies because they're compassionate (though that's not a bad side effect). They get funded because they save taxpayers money. Fewer unwanted babies on average means fewer drains on public resources from special needs education to foster care to the justice system down the road. Fewer untreated diseases means fewer unfunded visits to emergency rooms. And so on.
As with many of the programs being targeted, these cuts are penny wise and pound foolish. They make the budget look better next year, at the cost of far greater demands on the public purse down the line.
Humans fuck, and humans fuck up. All the laws or moralizing in the world won't change either one.
As I've said before, it used to be that the Republican Party, not the Democrats, was the home of people who treated the world as it really was, not as they wanted it to be. I miss those days. Reality-based fiscal conservatism makes a lot of sense to me. This nonsense doesn't.
Tea Partiers are political idealists, and I don't mean that as a compliment. So were the '60s hippies, and look where that got them. The new Tea Party slogan: "All you need is hate."
Posted by: Pete | April 09, 2011 at 10:41 PM
"At least 99% percent of "unplanned pregnancies" are the result of selfish, lazy behavior
Typical misinformed wingnut. It's because low-information voters like you can't be bothered to spend half a second researching anything that we're falling further and further behind than even corrupt European countries in nearly every quality of life marker.
Planned Parenthood also deals with
•Screening for cancer
•Contraceptives
•Pregnancy testing
•Vaccinations
•Affordable health care
•Advocating for health care
•Pregnancy options counseling
•Sexual health education
•Menopause treatments
•Adoption referral to other agencies
•STD testing
•Vasectomies
•Tubal litigations
and it's ironic that someone who can't be bothered to do anything generous and caring for his fellow American would accuse others of being selfish. What's the difference between their being selfish in the sack and your being selfish every waking moment?
Posted by: Andrew | April 09, 2011 at 11:25 PM
"They get funded because they save taxpayers money. Fewer unwanted babies on average means fewer drains on public resources from special needs education to foster care to the justice system down the road."
and increases in the rate of unplanned parenthood are shown to correlate with higher crime later on.
"Humans fuck, and humans fuck up. All the laws or moralizing in the world won't change either one."
That's essentially what is wrong with modern conservative thought. They think you anyone can become a perfect person with the punishment and reward inherent in the free market. And yet, how many conservatives are living beyond their means, making the minimum payment on credit card debts, or refinancing themselves into long term ruin? Over and over, Rupublicans claim they don't want to reward the very behaviors they regularly demonstrate. It's an ideology of selfishness.
Posted by: Andrew | April 09, 2011 at 11:44 PM
All of those services are available at any Dr or many county health depts Andrew.
P P is an abortion mill.
Why do you want me to pay for the results of somebody else's slutty behavior when they are not related to me?
None of that shit is any of my business and not my responsibility. All of this just takes the responsibilty of parenting away from the father and puts it on the tax paying public.
Posted by: South Tacoma | April 09, 2011 at 11:54 PM
And your proof, other than your own opinion, that Planned Parenthood is an abortion mill?
Do you think that just the woman is slutty, or was the man who got her pregnant just "bein' a guy"?
Can you tell us the name of a doctor--in Tacoma perhaps---who will perform mammograms and pap tests for free like Planned Parenthood does?
I guess you didn't listen to Fox News today-- on Fox and Friends they said a woman can walk into any Walgreens and get those services for free--you know, pick up the photos, then hop up on the counter and get 'er done.
If you had been paying attention at all, you would have remembered that President Obama signed specific legislation prohibiting ANY tax money going to pay for abortions. You aren't paying for abortions.
The only thing you got right is the part where you said it wasn't any of your business.
Posted by: sparky | April 10, 2011 at 12:09 AM
Where did I even hint that the slutty behavior is solely the woman? I didn't!
You people have completely fucked up the black family by taking the responsibility away from him. He can, willy nilly bounce from one hole to another and never have to pay a dime for his sleazy behavior.
After all of the shit Obama has done contradicting what he said and promised, I don't believe a word of what he says. He is a liar and you are a fool for believing him.
Posted by: South Tacoma | April 10, 2011 at 12:17 AM
And 300,000 abortions performed by PP every year is a "mill".
If you want to pay for that, fine. Write them as big of a check as you can.
PP is a billion dollar per year business. They don't need, nor deserve tax money.
Posted by: South Tacoma | April 10, 2011 at 12:31 AM
Where did I say I believe what Obama says? And do you really think it is just black women who use the free services at Planned Parenthood???
Posted by: sparky | April 10, 2011 at 12:31 AM
No, of course not black women only use PP. But you liberal white people have completely screwed up of families. Most black children are raised by single women and gangs.
Quit enabling men not to parent their children. It is high time we rebuild the family in the black community. The way to start is to make people accept and raise their own children.
Posted by: South Tacoma | April 10, 2011 at 12:48 AM
"Humans fuck, and humans fuck up. All the laws or moralizing in the world won't change either one."
Posted by: Pete
Exactly...
Therefore, when "humans fuck up"... They can pay the price.
Same with everything that humans make the choice to do.
Sex is no different just because it can be called a "health issue".
If I slice my finger while cutting the cheese, I get to pay for the stitches!
Yes, "cut the cheese" was supposed to be really, REALLY funny.
Posted by: Rat_Bastard | April 10, 2011 at 12:56 AM
"Most black children are raised by single women and gangs." You sound like my grandma, whose view of the world came from reading National Geographic.
"It is high time we rebuild the family in the black community." And having access to free birth control would go a long way to helping that happen.
How do you propose "making people accept and raise their own children"? If you could pull that one off, I would vote for you for President.
And what does that have to do with getting free screenings for cervical and breast cancer?
Where did you get your figures of 300K?
Posted by: sparky | April 10, 2011 at 12:56 AM
"As Rachel would say: How's that small government thing working for you?"
Involved in three wars, trillions in debt, and an economy with persistent unemployment doesn't sound like this 'large' government is anything to brag on...
As seen by the above, for the first time the progressives on this board are willing to come out and debate a bit. When the talk is about the failures to end wars, the start of a new one, renewal of USAPATRIOT Act, or even closing Gitmo they all run away to hide under false names. Telling.
A great quote on the budget battle:
" The showdown over Planned Parenthood was an admirable moment for Democrats. Harry Reid and Dems deserve credit for drawing a bright line on Planned Parenthood funding and refusing to budge. It’s true that the GOP’s insertion of the Planned Parenthood rider into the debate at the last minute gave them more leverage to push up the level of spending cuts even higher. It’s also true, as Digby noted, that the Dems’ drawing of a bright line on Planned Parenthood felt a bit like an effort to take a stand on something to buy off the base, even as Dems kept capitulating on spending cuts. But nonetheless, Boehner was ultimately forced to cave on this point, and it showed that Dems look strong when they fight and refuse to budge. The degree to which this spirit will animate Dems in future fights remains to be seen."
Posted by: Puget Sound | April 10, 2011 at 01:16 AM
Planned Parenthood annual report gives the abortion numbers.
I get my view of the world right here in South Tacoma.
Free food, free housing, free birth control, free heating oil, free cell phone, free healthcare. None of that is free. We just make other people pay.
This don't mean i don't want no help for temporary emergency. Just temporary last forever when government is involved.
Im going to sleep now.
Posted by: South Tacoma | April 10, 2011 at 01:22 AM
Pregnacy is one thing that the vast majority of people can control...
They choose not to, and then let everyone else pay the price.
Good parents are bad enough when it comes to the cost that children put on all of us.
We don't need bad parents.
That isn't good for anyone, most of all the children they bring into the world.
The children they "don't bring into the world" aren't diggin' it much either.
Posted by: Rat_Bastard | April 10, 2011 at 08:01 AM
This whole Planned Parenthood issue is one of the areas where I part company with the republicans. It may be a stand on principle, but if that's the case, why do they reduce it to a fiscal argument? The difference in those very fundamental core beliefs of people will never be resolved in the political arena. Let's move beyond the trees and see if we can't save the forest.
Posted by: Radio Queen | April 10, 2011 at 08:50 AM
The whole planned parenthood thing is kabuki theater meant to distract you at the front door, while the thieves are busy stealing everything else out the back door. It looks like they are succeeding.
PBJ you understood my question. Your approach is my answer.
Posted by: sparky | April 10, 2011 at 08:56 AM
Planned Parenthood doesn't "make money on abortions." It's a non-profit organization. But 3% of its services are abortions. The rest is providing women health services to low income people. PAP smears, breast exams, birth control, etc. Attacks on PP are based on extreme religious views against sex itself.
Posted by: Junius | April 10, 2011 at 09:31 AM
Sparky, good job but they never get it. And look at South Tacoma. Something about that area breeds coarse talk that seems to have more in common with the sewer than common sense.
People can pay for the choices they make.
No, they can't. That's just the reality. We will pay one way or another. You may deny it but that's just another blinder you wear. It changes nothing. We do pay eventually. More jails and prisons, the spread of more disease, unsafe streets, filth, pollution, higher medical costs when they end up at emergency rooms.
BTW, your comment about "bad parents." Are the "bad parents" the ones trying to plan their children? That doesn't make sense to me.
Lazy is refusing to confront the reality of living with imperfect people.
Sparky is right. All this arguing about values is a distraction. The rich now have 40% of our wealth. But Bastard's ok with that as long he as his little bank account is full.
Posted by: joanie | April 10, 2011 at 09:34 AM
numbers from Planned Parenthood
I just went to the Annual Report and there are no such numbers that show 300k.
Posted by: sparky | April 10, 2011 at 09:44 AM
Three percent are abortions? Thanks for some facts, Junius. Anyone notice that the incomes of middle Americans are becoming low incomes? I guess we're all expendable, right Bastard? Especially if you're a woman. Walker decided that.
Posted by: joanie | April 10, 2011 at 09:48 AM
It's a pot being stirred to get those more principled progressives from not bolting the party in 2012. Those evil teaparty folks can't be allowed to win and take away abortion, npr, starve grandpa, etc etc etc...
It must be tough for those knowing that in 2012 you'll only have a choice of voting for a neo con Democrat. Folks can fleabag but they eventually have to account. We'll see how that Nov 2012 vote goes down knowing what you are voting for. More of the same Bush Foreign policy. Some folks are such ditto heads that they refuse to see that they are exactly what they accuse Republicans of being.
Obama is Awesome 2...the Dem Voter
Posted by: Puget Sound | April 10, 2011 at 09:56 AM
Anyone having a 'malax moment' or are you all like that woman?
Rush has his ditto heads and the Dems have their Obama-trons.
It's kind of fun posting back here. Hope everyone else is enjoying it as well as I. LMAO
Posted by: Puget Sound | April 10, 2011 at 09:59 AM
Why do you keep on about Obama? He's not the topic.
Posted by: joanie | April 10, 2011 at 10:01 AM
Ok Sparky. Since you want to keep the question as broad as possible and not narrow it down. The only real answer, what would i gain if Obama fails would be...
a new President in 2012.
It doesnt have to be Repug. None have shown anything i like. And heaven help us if its Trump.
We Progressives need to get tough. We need to do what the TEA PARTY did to the RepubliCONs in 2010. Take a stand for our principles. We need to primary Obama.
Posted by: ProgBlogJunky | April 10, 2011 at 10:10 AM
And those tears are as fake as Becks
Posted by: ProgBlogJunky | April 10, 2011 at 10:10 AM
..as is your "progressiveness".
Ok, I could sit an argue all day, but as joanie says, it is pointless, and I have just one more day before going back to work. Laundry and lesson plans call. At least it's raining and I don't pine to be outside.
They're all yours joanie...enjoy.
Posted by: sparky | April 10, 2011 at 10:14 AM
OK, let me get this straight...the dems are compassionate people who firmly believe in their principles, but the repubs are dishonest kabuki theater charlatans. Is it possible that both sides have very deep core values... and not nearly enough tolerance to see their way toward any kind of compromise?
Posted by: Radio Queen | April 10, 2011 at 11:14 AM
Sparky, it was so good to read you trying to reason with them. I can't do it. I cannot argue with then. It is like going to an insane asylum and arguing with inmates. You can't win. They are short-term emotional reactors who have little knowledge of the numbers and facts. Bastard is the epiphany of the rightwing. He sounds reasonable and stays calm. But he never produces numbers, facts or complex thinking. He is a values voter.
I can't argue it and i don't try. They are idiots and they are destroying our country. I respect - for the first time - Queen. I wouldn't have expected a sophisticated acknowledgement from Queen but I got one. Call me what you will Queen, you have my respect for some critical thinking about a complex issue.
I was talking at school to a parent from England. England's mess is a result of Thatcher's regime - remember Thatcher/Reagan? She feels lucky because as a European citizen, she can move her family to Europe and Italy is her choice. Another parent has dual citizenship with Canada. They have made plans to move back to Canada. Another parent from England last year is now in New Zealand. Intelligent white people with choices are leaving. They want a civilized society. They don't see that in America any more. So tell me, where's all that "exceptionalism" I heard Charles Murray exalting last night on CSpan? Seems like the only people that see us as "exceptional" anymore are those of you on the right. The rest of us are wondering where it went.
Posted by: joanie | April 10, 2011 at 11:28 AM
A replay of the Budge Committee is on CSpan. Watch it and hear the debate. But you won't.
Posted by: joanie | April 10, 2011 at 11:41 AM
Rep. Ryan's Free-Market 'Death Panels'
By Robert Parry
April 7, 2011
The consequences of three decades of anti-government Reaganism and free-market extremism are now coming clearly into view, a cruel and brutish America split sharply between a few lucky haves and many desperate have-nots.
Posted by: joanie | April 10, 2011 at 11:47 AM
Why do you keep on about Obama? He's not the topic.
Posted by: joanie | April 10, 2011 at 10:01 AM
as PBJ says, as President Obama goes, so goes the Democratic Party.
You (Joanie) have been taking a principled stand on it, I just wonder where the other Progressives are right now.
We kept hearing for the past 6 plus years about the evil neo cons. I wanted to believe that the regular posters here were not playing politics. Now that Pres Obama has revealed himself to be a neo con (still waiting for anyone to lay out how he isn't) where is the outrage?
Just pointing it out.
What O'Donnel is doing, as I pointed out, is trying to get folks to rally around the ol Dem Flag. He sees the vulnerable fracture within the Party when a serious candidate like a Russ Feingold enters the race and positions himself to Pres Obama's left.
BTW, why is it that the Repubs with one House can move the agenda much more effectively then the Dems could with veto Proof majorities in Both Houses and the Presidency?
Posted by: Puget Sound | April 10, 2011 at 11:50 AM
Good news, this should be soon off of the table. Reporter Michael Isakoff reports:
" The Hawaiian state health official who personally reviewed Barack Obama's original birth certificate has affirmed again that the document is "real" and denounced "conspiracy theorists" in the so-called "birther" movement for continuing to spread bogus claims about the issue.
"It’s kind of ludicrous at this point," Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the former director of Hawaii's Department of Health, said in a rare telephone interview with NBC."
Posted by: Puget Sound--birthers wear tin hats | April 10, 2011 at 11:54 AM
Italian courts work two days a week, put on interminable trials, (justice delayed is justice denied) and tolerate corrupt, evil clowns for prosecutors liek the prosecutor on the first Amanda Knox trial. Speaking of same, they railroaded an innocent American college student for murder on no forensic evidence, because the powers that be decided on a ridiculous 3 party copnspiracy theory and , after discovering it just didn't work , simply replaced the third actor with a different third actor. They stuck to the original theory, because they were too full of horseshit to admit they were wrong. If she hadn't been an American she would have never been tried. Ad to that their everpresent mafia, and various other other corrupt substandard elements of their society. wow...what a wonderful country... ... a few morons are moving to Italy....big deal....good riddance....there is no mass exodus of "intelligent white people" to Europe and New Zealand...nice try....
Posted by: Tommy008 | April 10, 2011 at 11:57 AM
Again, what is this obsession with Obama? I know what stand I take. You don't need to tell me. Talk about your own stand instead of putting up strawmen and then knocking them down. You're conversing with yourself.
Posted by: joanie | April 10, 2011 at 11:57 AM
I answered, you just don't care for it.
Posted by: Puget Sound | April 10, 2011 at 12:11 PM
Didn't say there was a mass exodus, Tommy. As usual, you rant on about nothing. I'm wondering how someone who makes love to his computer night and day searching for that first million knows what anybody else is doing?
Posted by: joanie | April 10, 2011 at 12:12 PM
No, you didn't.
Posted by: joanie | April 10, 2011 at 12:15 PM
You've taken a lot of abuse for poor comprehension in the past by folks here from the right and the left, I'm trying to be polite.
Go back and carefully read the posts I've put up and you'll see the points I am making.
I have faith in you. You can do it.
I'll be back later to check on your progess.
Posted by: Puget Sound | April 10, 2011 at 12:25 PM
And don't tell me what I like and don't like. I can speak for myself just fine.
Posted by: joanie | April 10, 2011 at 12:29 PM