Who killed bryant park project? a post mortem

No matter we had it first. It's just sad.

The New York Times is now reporting that NPR suits will tell staffers Monday morning that Bryant Park Project is being canceled.

The last day will be July 25.

(photo: Stewart & Burbank. by Piotr Redlinski for The New York Times)

The experimental weekday morning news for a younger audiences, launched with co-hosts teevee news reporter Alison Stewart and localite Luke Burbank was an expensive attempt to lure listeners who had moved online to public radio.

The live, two-hour show was a conversational and off-beat treatment of news and culture and is said to have fallen prey to an economy that's hurt public radio underwriting as much as commercial radio's advertising shortfalls.

But there's a lot more.

The Times says "Bryant Park Project had a rocky start when one of the original co-hosts, Luke Burbank, quit just before the debut. (He ended up staying through mid-December.) Ms. Stewart went on maternity leave in April, and the news anchor, Rachel Martin, left for ABC News in May."

(Burbank of course came home to Seattle and under the aegis of Bonneville International has developed another experimental show on AM radio that's aimed at a younger demographic, Too Beautiful to Live, KIRO m-f, 7-10p).

Although the program is heard over the air on just five radio stations and available on 19 high-definition digital channels, NPR officials said publicly in recent months that “Bryant Park Project” was attracting the kind of Web audience they had hoped for. One NPR employee, who was not authorized to speak publicly, said the program had one million individual, or “unique” listeners in both April and May.

Stewart told The Times:  “From what I understand, we are obviously in extra-tough economic times, and it is a financial and strategic decision,” she said. “I was told it had absolutely nothing to do with the quality or content of the show.”

But there was some heavy NPR politics working against the show long before the recession had shown its teeth.

BPP's champions, CEO Ken Stern was fired in March; senior programming veep Jay Kernis, departed for CNN in January. They'd developed the concept as part of a larger attempt to bring the slow-moving public network into digital reality of the modern era.

Stern had argued that the old way of doing radio wouldn't work forever. There were too many other new options: cable teevee, online news, iPods, video games and social networks. All were pulling audiences away from traditional radio stations.

He argued that NPR had to be available on whatever platforms people wanted to hear them.

But the local affiliates hated the idea of new platforms. (Many thought platforms were a type of shoe from their disco days, and said, "No way!").

Stations rely on shows like Morning Edition and Car Talk to generate pledges. But if listeners could catch these shows podcasted or live-streamed from the NPR website, they argued, it would cut out the stations, and end station loyalty (read fundraising). They were probably correct.

BPP is the only NPR show that live- streams from the site-- it drew fire from the stations --  Oregon Public Radio in particular had a fit over BPP.

Stern failed at convincing local stations that there was a place for them in his vision of a digital future.

Ken Stern was cut loose. Bryant Park Project is dead.

Comments

[joanie]

I'm a skeptic of all this new-fangled stuff because I don't think different is always better. And I sure don't understand how Stern expected revenues to stay up if content was free.

Although, public radio is free to those of us who don't pay for it so what's the difference? I imagine the good people who currently support it would continue to do so. Hmm. May have answered my own question here.

I'm also not someone who believes in aborting projects without giving them a chance. Once the project was up and running, they should have let it live.

I don't like TBTL. But, I think it would be a mistake for KIRO to end it. Everything needs a chance to evolve and attract listeners.

So, I'm sorry BPP was allowed to die before it had a chance to prove itself one way or another.

I love radio. The more diverse the better.

[Gay Gary]

Joanie, forgive me what I'm about to write, but I have to indulge myself just a little whenever one of NPRs vaunted experiments crashes and burns.

The most hilarious part about this ...

Whomever the "BPP" webmaster is flooding their "blog" with comments of outrage over the cancellation (note that every other post on their "blog" has between 0 to 4 comments and they suddenly jump to 90+ ... all posted within a cascade of 3-4 minutes of each other starting at 11PM on a Sunday night ... I guess all those lurkers just never had anything to say until this point? LMAO) ...

Their millions of paper listeners? Hehe.

just five radio stations and available on 19 high-definition digital channels ... One NPR employee, who was not authorized to speak publicly, said the program had one million individual, or “unique” listeners in both April and May.

A million unique listeners on just 25 stations are not numbers that jive. This indicates that "BPP" was, quite simply, one of the highest rated and most successful radio programs in the history of the world ... even if an astonishing 1/2 of those were streaming online -- a simply incredible number for a year old show with no promotion and no large markets -- these numbers are simply not reconcilable with reality.

NPR needs to invest in a better PR dude.

From the BPP "blog" -- and comes at a time when NPR is facing the same financial constraints as other news media thanks to higher costs and a downturn in underwriting.

I know that's written by the NYT but it could of been written by one of NPRs welfare kids themselves. "Other media" are facing a "downturn in underwriting"? Reality check - "other media" call it "commercials". It's impossible to throw one of the welfare kids off their high-horse even after you throw them off the dole - too funny! ... Yeah, NPR, despite what you think, you are commercial radio ... the NPR welfare kids are no different and no more special than the mid-day rock block DJ on Fresno's Z100 but without the vocal talent.

Okay, that's all I'll say on that. Good to see it got canned.

[Duffman]

Not familar with BPP, but would venture to say that Luke Burbank's departure may have aided that demise. IMO Luke has real talent and in an unusually attractive manner. TBTL has captured me in the evenings and the personalities have grown on me and I think many others. Luke and Jen work great together and compliment one another in a very dynamic way. KIRO would be wise to continue with this format.

[Sesttlejew]

Call me a narcissist and a skeptic.

I know Michael likes Luke and He, MH, has forcefully pointed out that at my age, 67,my opinions of Luke may reflect not at all on the reality of his audience.

Perhaps, but all I can do is say I think Burbank is boring.

[sparky]

GG, I believe the NPR spokesperson was referring to one million website listeners, not radio listeners. They can monitor the hits to the stream.

Maybe when Rachel Maddow gets her own show, Allison Stewart will be back as fill in for Keith.

[Babill O'Riley]

How is TBTL experimental? It's a talk show on the AM dial.

[TBTL observer]

The mix of topics, the non-format format and the 18-35 year old dimo make it experimental and unique in radio. will it work? probably not. It's probably too late to get that age group interested in the AM dial.

[Tommy008]

i was walkng to the gym yesterday with my headphones on, and happened to come upon some Npr station with a super-sophisticated, supercilious young white woman talking over an about an obscure pianist playing John Cage. yuck . i switched to the next channel which had some dope chanting his banal thugrap song, boasting about taking women up in his "G-5" (Gulfstream 5). Actually i preferred this dreck to the former. At least it had a beat to it.

[blathering michael]

Yes but Mr. Seattlejew, if you're 67 yr. old it should bore you. It's aimed at your grandchildren. Sesame Street bores hell out of me, too. You're outside the demographic of even regular talk radio. You should be listening to the pithy tones of NPR and the strains of KING FM.

[simba-x]

That radio is losing or has lost young people is the elephant in the room. Except for this blog and a few other places, it is never discussed. You boomers will have radio you need until you're gone, but as you usually do, you just put down the prospects for new things that don't benefit you directly.

[vbv]

The old men of NPR have won.

[T. Weiss]

This is NOT a wise decision! This show engages me on news-related items more than any other news program I have ever listened to. It is more relevant to me than Morning Edition, Fresh Air, etc. And I really like both of those programs. It's just that BPP hits a lot closer to home for me. It talks about issues I care about. I've told so many people about it over the past several months. I have never been involved with a news or radio program more than with BPP. I follow the Tweets. I access the Facebook. I care about what happens on the show. This really ticks me off. So many things in the country right now where there are top-down decisions making my life less enojoyable, and now NPR sticks it to me, too. Extremely disappointed.

[Gay Gary]

It's just that BPP hits a lot closer to home for me. It talks about issues I care about.

The fact that you care about vapid issues is really more of a larger social problem, not a NPR problem. Dumbing down the news isn't a tenable game plan.

Signs of the Times ... The Reign of Quantity

[Gay Gary]

I believe the NPR spokesperson was referring to one million website listeners, not radio listeners. They can monitor the hits to the stream.

They're lying. People need to start critically looking at numbers instead of assuming any statistic - by virtue of the fact that it's a statistic - is correct, especially with an outfit like NPR that historically has a tendency to simply make-up listener numbers.

There are 70 million 18-34 year olds in the United States. If "the BPP" was hitting 1 million unique listeners, that means 1 out of every 70 in their target age group were listening online on any given day. Especially considering zero promotion, almost no terrestrial radio presence and only being a year old, this would represent - quite simply - one of the most all-encompassing and successful media endeavors in the history of mass communication itself, if not the most successful.

No one likes to hear their "creative" efforts were really fairly marginal and derivative and I appreciate the need for scorned employees to find reasons for their firing other "you were producing a poor product or service", but surely it's best for "the BPP" staff to keep these excuses as internally realizable tokens, especially if they're so, frankly, outlandish and sci-fi.

[sclub]

Burbank blew a once-in-a-lifetime chance to make it big.

[Wild Bill]

Gary, you confuse the puddin' in your Boomer White Man noggin' with the concept of OTHER people's noggin puddin'. You're an obtuse boob who, in your creaky Empirical Logic 101 fashion, consider the bits before you and proclaim, "I Gay Gary now declare reality." Now that I know what you're all about, though, it's amusing. The Empirical Logic Dictates of Gay Gary. I see an overweight, middle-aged white guy dressed as Yul Byrnner (sp) in the 10 Commandments, beating a flabby man boob and saying, "so it shall be done!"

Now, for the standard GG response, copy, paste and

anyyyywwayyy

You don't know it all GG, ya just thinks ya does...

BPP had wit and vigor, things you need a prescription for, on a good day.....
tbtl is the emanating tones of the AM god fairy things in thongs!

[Wild Bill]

Uh, yeah sclub,on the show that was just cancelled....uh huh, ok, if that's how you feels about it....Luke is the pure voice streaming from God..and we need him here in C Town.

[Gay Gary]

Gary. I see an overweight, middle-aged white guy dressed as Yul Byrnner (sp) in the 10 Commandments, beating a flabby man boob and saying, "so it shall be done!"

Honey, I could be wrong, but if I recall from one of your previous posts, aren't you like in your 40s?

As a conservative I intend to stick to traditional values* and not speak ill to my elders so you'll get no reply from me you scrumptious little eclaire!

* except, of course, the part where it says not to sleep with other men

[AuthenticAndrew]

When I read that the CEO had no details for how stations would remain relevent as listeners were driven to alternate mediums I thought FUCK YEAH FIRE HIM WOW THAT'S INCOMPETENT.

Coke had a similar relationship with their bottlers. Their business strategies were hindered by the fact that the had to play nice with the regional bottling companies so they bought up a lot of the large companies to gain back control. If NPR wants interchangeability and has a plan to do pledge drives over the internet or XM radio then they need to buy up the more powerful stations so that they will have a controlling interest in their own interest.

[Wild Bill]

44, and fighting my own girths and man boobs, sir...born June 28 1964, though, am I a Boomer or an Xer? Tradition....is that another way of saying the "way of things" as delivered from those on higher rungs? But, now I'm feeling like you're not all bad, Nobody else called me an eclaire today. tbtl is the cream filling....

[Erin]

The fact that you care about vapid issues is really more of a larger social problem, not a NPR problem. Dumbing down the news isn't a tenable game plan.

I don't think most people that listen to BPP or TBTL listen for their daily fix of the news. I'm in the target age range for TBTL, and I listen to be entertained. When I am getting caught up on world issues, I watch it on tv, read it on the internet, or read newspapers. On occasion I do listen to other talk radio programs. Do you ever watch television or go out and see a movie? Because TBTL and the like are more similar to a television show than an angst-filled talk radio program. It's fun and relaxing, and if I am actually listening live I get the added bonus of news checks on the top and bottom of the hour.

People who are so upset by this format just don't get it. It's not meant to be a discussion of worldly topics. It's meant to be something that you can put on, enjoy, and maybe think about things that are a little closer to home. Just because someone listens to and enjoys this style of radio doesn't mean they are ignorant to what really matters. It's just that we are not coming to this program to get that type of information.

[Erin]

Oh, and while I cannot speak to the failure of BPP, I can say that TBTL has been largely successful with other people in the target age range. Several of my friends regularly listen to and enjoy the program. While my experience is merely anecdotal, TBTL's successful ratings seem to be illustrating that fact.

[Gay Gary]

I don't think most people that listen to BPP or TBTL listen for their daily fix of the news.

The poster said: "This show engages me on news-related items more than any other news program I have ever listened to." That was the comment to which I was replying.

While my experience is merely anecdotal

yes

TBTL's successful ratings seem to be illustrating that fact.

If repeating "successful ratings" enough times - like saying "Candyman" - causes it to be so then maybe they do because we sure hear those words a lot ... (I really need to set-up a macro on my keyboard that will enable me to post a reminder that "TBTL"s ratings are not, actually, successful, every time the ad nauseum machine is activated.)

Next?

[Tommy008]

having blown his "once in a lifetime " chance in New York City, Burbank returns to Seattle and talks down to us locals with his new show, which really is a piece of excrement, and won't last very long. I se a paper hat in Burbank'a future. A paper hat from Dick's as he once again stacks greasebombs in a paper bag at his old work alma mater. He can join the ranks of the insolent fellows who pop up there behind the counter from time to time, saying things like "what's going on , boss?", or "what's up" instead of "can I help you , sir?" They aeem to have forgotten that they're the folks wearing the paper hat, not you.

[Wild Bill]

Watch that Tommy008 one folks, he's an elitist prick! But you already knows that. Yo Tommy, Boss, dude, yours, though pale and chalky, stinks too, Pal....Course you and Nick Licata probably put on your berets and screen your excrement, lest you part with any of your precious nuggets, while sneering at minumum wage earners....

[Tommy008]

you bet,I sneer at any dumbass who doesn's know his role as counterboy at Dick's is to serve the customer with respect, not to cop an asinine attitude. I've worked in plenty of minimum wage jobs, Wild Bill. The difference is, I knew my place. Just stack my gresebombs, Johnson, and lose the attitude.

[Wild Bill]

his/"her" role...."counterboy"???? What, you from the South, Tom? How about, quick, cheap eats facilitation group Team Member? Yes Sir, No Sir is for The Military,,,,tbtl whizzes right over the thinning hair on your blotchy, peeling scalp. Yeah, ya doucher, I bet ya got a "place" for everyone in the dark chambers of your mossy brainsack.
Sincerely,,,

[Erin]

The poster said: "This show engages me on news-related items more than any other news program I have ever listened to." That was the comment to which I was replying.

Yes, and you implied that the content of these programs is worthless/vapid. While I don't agree with your views on the show, I do agree they are infinitely lighter in the subject matter than any of the big talk radio players. What you and the older generations (or, as I believe you put it, "traditionalists") don't get is that a talk radio program does not need to be political to be successful.

Back in the day, people listened to talk radio for much more than news. When there weren't televisions, they got all of their entertainment from their radios. This new format is, in a way, this old style becoming new again. There is a distinct separation of what talk radio has been over the past decade versus the new directions it's been moving towards lately. And really, this is the best time for this to be happening! If faraway listeners are fans of a talk show, they stream in and listen live. Many people, myself included, cannot commit to listening every day from 7-10pm. So now we have the liberty of downloading the show and listening to it wherever and whenever we'd like.

You pooh-pooh the success of this show, but it has seen great success particularly in the popularity of its Podcasts. It was discussed on the show a few weeks back that they think the majority of the people listening are actually downloading instead of listening live. This is the new age. People don't have time to commit to anything outside of their set schedules, and the flexibility of streaming/downloadable programs appeals to the younger generations. This is a show that works well with time constraints.

You can continue to plug your ears and live in denial, but I don't think that TBTL is going anywhere in the near future.

[Duffman]

So, T008 - with all due respect, lets see how your latest prediction for TBTL squares with your prediction on how long Bryan Suits lasts at KFI in L.A.
Dude, your track record is not one of creditability.

[Gay Gary]

you implied that the content of these programs is worthless/vapid

I don't think I implied it, I think I came right out said it.

you and the older generations

TBTL has an odd chronology. "Wild Bill", who is a dozen years my senior, is considered "young", while anyone who dislikes TBTL - regardless of their age - is "old" (that's like the constant drumbeat of "TBTLs Ratings Are Good Regardless of Whether They are Bad"). TBTL does seem to attract a lot of 40 and 50 somethings but I haven't seen more than a handful 20 and 30 somethings.

majority of the people listening are actually downloading instead of listening live

Well best wishes to KIRO in making money off commercial-free, free downloads.

a talk radio program does not need to be political to be successful

True. It just needs to be on the FM dial. See Billy Bush, Adam Corolla, etc. Programs infinitely better than TBTL. The only thing original about TBTL is the band it broadcasts on ... and that, dear, is a paltry serving of originality.

[Erin]

TBTL does seem to attract a lot of 40 and 50 somethings but I haven't seen more than a handful 20 and 30 somethings.

And where are you looking? Blatherwatch? Because the majority of the people here seem to be of the older crowd, nearly all anti-TBTL. How many 20 and 30 somethings are you in contact with? Because you seem woefully out of touch with what 20 somethings might find interesting. For the record, I am a twenty-something with a handful of friends in the same age range that are fans of the show.

and that, dear, is a paltry serving of originality.

So says you, dear. Personally, bitterly angry talk show hosts all talking the same topic to death day in and out is the format that lacks originality. I don't make it my duty to be hateful on the internet about it, though. I turn the dial and have the good sense to listen to what interests me, understanding the fact that different people like different things. It truly is an amazing concept... if you don't like it, don't listen! And don't worry your pretty little head off things that are no interest to you. Really, do you have nothing better to do than repeatedly hate on something that you supposedly care so little about so very often?

[Gay Gary]

How many 20 and 30 somethings are you in contact with?

Well, myself, my B/F Oculus Bleu, and basically everyone I know or interact with except our neighbor, "the Baron" (that's a nickname only), who is older even than Wild Bill (ack!) but still manages to have a good time.

Really, do you have nothing better to do than repeatedly hate on something that you supposedly care so little about so very often?

Erin - I think it's wonderful that you come online to hear people agree with you, but I'm worried you may not find many opportunities for satisfaction. Grown-ups sometimes have discussions where they agree and disagree and talk about the merits and drawbacks of different things. This is how the discussion goes at the adult table ... we talk about our differences of opinion. If you stick around a bit you might find you like it as much or more than the kids table. I hope you do!

I love hearing your passionate support of TBTL and would never want you to just "shut up" because I can't stand hearing you disagree with me, nor would I wish - as Luke Burbank has asked for everyone who disagrees with him - that you were sexually assaulted by an adult pedophile as a child just because we don't see eye to eye.

Thanks for your passionate and intense feelings, Erin! You're a firecracker - keep that sassy spirit alive, girl!

[Wild Bill]

G Gary. interesting, other than posting my own age, my age has never been brought up in this or the tbtl blogs, yet you said I was considered "young." It must have been your assumption. Adam Corolla? Please. Luke is nothing like the FM babblers. But, to my ear, neither is R&D. Oh well, Gary, now that I know of your youth, I will back off, as you probably still have dreams and such...tbtl is the last chin on Mayor Nickells, the one with the organic swiss sauce driblet.