OPEN THREAD: words matter

“Talk-show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism, while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism.” ~ ~ Barack Obama

Comments

[abob]

If Obama wants to promote his newfound image as the uniter of the races, attacking the media is a bad way to start.

[merv griffin]

abob: Sounds like he's making a specific comment about "talk-show hosts and conservative commentators," not "attacking the media." Could you be as specific in your comment as he is, please?

[AuthenticAndrew]

To me that quote is divisive. Talk show hosts who explain away racism hurt society, but so do people who explain away the people who explain away racism.

Obama makes a broad, unattributed statement about evil talk show hosts and pundits, uses them as straw men and says nothing about their merits. What remarks were racist and which were politicaly correct? Who made the statements? Give us names. This is as bad as "some people say..."

To me, that finger pointing, assigning blame "in that direction over there" is more proof that Obama has spent a lot of time blaming somebody rather than blaming everybody.

We have been saying all along that he's nothing but talk, but we never imagined that once the substance came to the surface that it would be this ugly, afterall, he's a Democrat, but it's George Bush ugly.

I fear that if he's elected he'll make liberalism smell even worse than it already does to conservatives. Then again the observation that a younger inexperianced senator can't beat an older war hero is so undeniable that this issue is academic.

[Duffman]

I heard that Chris Matthews (MSNBC Hardball superstar) regards Sen Obama's speech yesterday as even better than the infamous MLK speech. While I too thought it was good, I don't think I'd go that far in it's praise. :)

[DT]

Does racism exist? Yes. Is racism what's holding back the black community from bettering their situation? No. They are holding themselves back, then blaming it on racism. In a way, they are being brainwashed into not trying harder, because they've been told racism is so prevalent that it won't let them proceed beyond a certain point. It's a defeatist, victim mindset that's a recipe for failure, generation after generation.

[abob]

"Obama's speech made me feel a tingle go down my leg" _Chris Matthews

Matthews probably suffers from post-urinary drip.

[Achilles]

http://mantivity.blogspot.com

[Duffman]

A thought: will the revelation of Mrs Clinton's 'papers' (thousands of pages) on her White House scheduling reveal that SHE was actually running the Country. Stand by. :)

[Shelf Life]

Or she was involved with Marc Rich

[lankypup]

Divisive? talk radio has done more to divide and distract this country than TV and cheap alcohol put together. These talk show clowns, who are really just low-level entertainers who live off outrage have hurt the relationship sincere citizens once had with the government which by definition is them.
That's not to mention the permission talk radio gives each day to be racist, intolerant, dismissive, distrustful, negative, ugly and trivial. It is all really about selling advertising to profit huge media corporations and a few overpaid talk hosts. Power to the people! you fucking sheep.

[Duffman]

Aufmerksamkeit: zu Sie hören zu, was ich Sie hören wünsche.

ATTENTION: YOU WILL LISTEN TO WHAT I WANT YOU TO LISTEN TO!....and don't you forget it.

[AuthenticAndrew]

It's been shown time and time again that talk radio doesn't change people's minds. Divisiveness in talk radio is just a reflection of the radical right's power grab, xenophobia and hostility towards liberal Democrats. As people become tired of the Iraq war so follow the talk radio hosts.

[Duffman]

Don't know if any of you had a chance to catch the Dave Ross Show this a.m., but interestingly he interviewed an Iraqi who said that (I believe it was) 7 out of 8 Iraqi's want the USA out of their country immediately and that the insurgent population is as great, if not greater than 5-4-3-2-1 years ago. THIS five years into it.
INCREDIBLE!!! This individual is predicting a large scale attack on the 'green zone' to try to inflict as much damage and death as possible in an attempt to dissuade American will from remaining.
You could tell the genuine contempt and passion in this person's voice literally 'coming thru' the air-waves.
The 'if we don't fight them there, we'll fight em here' BS is getting old and we're losing more and more either to death or incapacitation all the time. This is insane and so very sad. Lo siento mucho! :(

[chucks]

lankypup,
I understand your disdain for Air America. I must ask, is the hurt relationship between citizens and gummint because we the people get more information than that which we got under the old system of CBS, NBC, ABC and our local papers, that only gave us the news they thought we should have? That old program is dead. These here innertubes will never allow us to be kept in the dark by the likes of Uncle Walter, Huntley- Brinkley etc. The new way of getting info is better.
The new sources for information is giving power back to the people. I'll skip the appropriate insult.

[lankypup]

chicks, you are such a tool. Who the fuck do you think owns these stations and talk hosts? CBS, ABC, General Electric, Clear Channel, Entercom, Emmis, Fox, Cox, Bonneville, etc. Rush is owned by Premier who is owned by Clear Channel, Hannity by ABC. Bonneville and Salem are smaller, Air America is tiny, and they are doing the same thing to America for money that the larger communications corps do.
To say that you're getting truthier truth from the same corporations because you listen to different entertainment talents is really stupid, and it is believing what they want you to believe, that their talk radio is somehow closer to audiences than their other platforms.
It's just a business. If they gave a shit about good government and truth, and all that happy horseshit, they wouldn't be folding up all these stations, going satellite and firing the locals. You are a sheep caught in the 1990's, Chucks.
Or is it the '70's? ---
Cronkite? Huntley Brinkley???? Huntley died in 1974, Brinkley in 2003, after retiring from his Sunday show in 1996. Cronkite ain't working, hasn't for years, he must be 100.

[sparky]

Who said this? :

"And one other thing I think we've gotta remember. As easy as it is for those of us who are white, to look back and say "That's a terrible statement!"...I grew up in a very segregated south. And I think that you have to cut some slack -- and I'm gonna be probably the only Conservative in America who's gonna say something like this, but I'm just tellin' you -- we've gotta cut some slack to people who grew up being called names, being told "you have to sit in the balcony when you go to the movie. You have to go to the back door to go into the restaurant. And you can't sit out there with everyone else. There's a separate waiting room in the doctor's office. Here's where you sit on the bus..." And you know what? Sometimes people do have a chip on their shoulder and resentment. And you have to just say, I probably would too. I probably would too. In fact, I may have had more of a chip on my shoulder had it been me."

[coiler]

Lanky didn't mention Air America, chucks, are you trying to steal a page out of the car dealerships book by doing a bait and switch?

[Duffman]

Ummmmmm, does it rhyme with 'chicadee' :)

[sparky]

only if you have a serious speech defect, Duffman.

[chucks]

LIMPYDICK
You are such a tool. You are such an idiot. You are such a complete richard.
Obviously you could not understand, using that undeveloped brain, that the center of my point was that with the internet (that is at the other end of the wires attached to that thing you are typing on) that the entire broadcast industry will not control the information that we receive anymore.
Sorry if I did not make that clear enough that a 5th grader could understand.
If you have any additional insults, please feel free.

[Duffman]

...nope, not me I only have a frivolous and/or unimportant speech defect...sorry. :)

[lankypup]

OK, how bout, "Eat shit, fascist dog!"

[chucks]

How bout, "No thanks, I've had my fill of you for today. Besides, no clue as to you bein a man or woman, so........never mind"
we are done.

[Duffman]

hey chucks: may be they didn't read your post on 'you and your brother's visit'...?

[sparky]

wow...

I didn't expect this!

[Pete M]

I often wonder whats in it for trolls who do nothing but make inane comments. I guess these wolfpups have have no home....

[PugetSound]

Sparky
The other day I heard Dennis Miller talk about how you have to gauge the words of Rev Wright to some extent by the period he came out of as opposed to a 30 something year old who was making the same racist comments.
So while Miller thought Wright was kooky with his theory of the gov being behind Aids or Crack Cocaine in the Black Community Miller was giving Wright a pass on some of the more racist comments due to the time in which he grew up. Miller also had problems with the fact that Obama would repeatedly expose his children to such racist and anti american rants.

[sparky]

Well, putz, I just can't bring myself to depend on Dennis Miller to be my moral mentor.

Time for another quiz! who said this?:

"Neither party should be defined by pandering to the outer reaches of American politics and the agents of intolerance, whether they be Louis Farrakhan or Al Sharpton on the left, or Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell on the right."

By the way..I'm confused now. If Obama is a Muslim, as was posted here a few weeks ago, then why was he attending a Christian church? Hmmm?

And then there is Pastor Hagee, McCain's pastor supporter of choice, who thinks we should eradicate all Muslims from the face of the earth.
Oh, wait, he is white! hah,,nevermind!!

[chucks]

Having attended that church for 20 years, I buy it. Obama is a Christian. I will not express any other opinion on that issue. The only real difference that I see with the McCain-Hagee is a casual relationship/endorsement, where Obama has been a loyal follower of Wright.

I recognize the 4:10 quote and only vaguely the first one, sparky. Who?

[sparky]

#1 is Huckabee #2 is McCain

and chucks, McCain sought out the endorsement of both Hagee and Pasley.

[chucks]

sparky
I am pretty sure that you are not bigoted and I am pretty sure that McCain is not a bigot.
Really do not know enough about Obama on that or anything else. He has been protected from scrutiny up until recently. I fully expect the Clinton camp to leak more trash.
The McCain camp will just restock ammo to use for November. If it is McCain-Obama, then I expect one of the cleaner direct candidate battles we have seen in a while. The party's and the PAC's will still throw up garbage.
I posted some place earlier that Obama got the "New Black Panther Party" endorsement. Pretty sure B.O. did not seek that one.

[sparky]

yes, the post I have above links to Obama's website where someone has posted Sean Hannity's name and picture as being a big supporter of Obama..it was a response to the front page story on FoxNews,com that Obama has the endorsement of the Black Panthers..when in reality it was one person, not the organization. But of course, they did not expect any of their regulars to try to figure that out, and now it is in the minds of many that the Black Panthers support him. Mission Accomplished.

[Duffman]

'..it was a response to the front page story on FoxNews,com'
'..and now it is in the minds of many that the Black Panthers support him.'

Now, let me see if I grasp this. Your intent was a response to 'get back' at FoxNews...I'm sure you agree that the folks who watch/listen to FoxNews do so by choice. Assuming that, why would you care...they are pre-disposed to BS any way...and seem to love being spoon-fed that way. So, I don't get it? :)

[sparky]

You grasped in the wrong direction, Duffman..I was not getting back at anyone,,I merely posted a link to what something I saw on several other sites. The intent of the person who did create it that was to show that anyone can put anything they want on a site such as that, no matter how untrue it is. There was no expectation of winning over any Fox viewers to Obama's camp. Irony often escapes people, especially on Blatherwatch, but anyway I dont have time to put fake bios on campaign sites.

[Duffman]

Understand...it was so 'unbecoming' of the 'you' I thought I somewhat knew, it confused me. Thx. :)

[PugetSound]

Speaking of words that matter, does it matter that a Clinton was caught again in a whopper. (sorry Duff)

Hillary under Sniper Attack?

[PeakLimiter]

OBAMA: Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely. Compare that with what Obama told the Chicago Sun-Times on March 15, 2008, "But the sermons I've always heard were no different than the sermons you hear in many African-American churches. I had not heard him make such, what I consider to be objectionable remarks from the pulpit. Had I heard them while I was in church, I would have objected. Had that been the tenor of the church generally, I probably wouldn't be a member of the church."But on March 14, when CNN's Anderson Cooper asked Obama if he ever heard from others about Rev. Wright's controverisal remarks, Obama replied with a flat "No."Obama lied and can't be trusted. Obama has ZERO credibility! Obama is now UNELECTABLE!

[Johnny Horizon]

So, what was wrong with the sermons?

[joanie hussein for Obama]

I love this thread. Prime time Fox playing to its audience - America's lowest common denominator.

Obama will beat this. Because most people aren't you guys. White male victims over 50 (or who think like they're over fifty or have a viagra-induced disease), piss all you want. Most of the country has moved on.

This will be yesterday's news when the election rolls around.

[joanie hussein for Obama]

And lankypup, don't try to have a reasonable conversation with chuckles. He finds the nearest exit spewing stupid attacks when facts arrive.

Duffman, you made a reasonably thoughtful post above. I think there's hope for you.

"Iraq Veterans To Testify at Their Own 'Winter Soldier" Shades of a young John Kerry here. Puts things into perspective. Of course, this article will be a little too serious for chuckles who likes the John Wayne war narrative.

I bet chuckles was 4F. I just bet.

[nevets]

A couple days late there Joanie. But the time difference from here and Iraq must still confuse you. And after listening to Rev. Manning Joanie, maybe a better moniker for you might be "Joanie Whoring for Obama"

Sparky, what happened to that link. If it was a fake, they shoud have kept it up there and used it to thier advantage. I think they were embarasses by the endorsment and took it off thier site. And before finding Christ with Rev. Wright, which direction did he pray to? And if Rev. Wright's bible has "God Damn America" written in it, wouldn't Obama's bible have that written in it also? These are the questions that need to be answered.

Duff, seeing how Hillary was at the White House the day the blue dress got the stain on it. you think there might have been a threesome going on.

[nevets]

With that being Imus in the photo above, I'm surprised no one is commenting on the hypocricy of Obama in regards to his take that Imus should have been fired and that he would no longer go on his show so as not to enable the guy. As for being enabled, i'm sure Rev. Wright felt great speaking his hate in front of Obama, especially with Obama nodding his head in approval. What better way to pass along his hate for America to the man who would be President.

[AuthenticAndrew]

People who try to point out a hypocracy between Obama wanting Imus fired while loitering a racist church are only shooting themselves in the foot. The comparison is stupid and everybody knows it.

Obviously MSNBC isn't a church, MSNBC is a corperate entity that reaches millions of viewers, has a broad apeal and a great responsibility to the public.

A church is extremely small by comparison, and by definition targets a much much much narrower audience than a cable network. The comparison is beyong apples and oranges, it's like apples and Nazis.

People who try to ignore that obvious difference to catch Obama in a contradiction are making fools of themselves.

[nevets]

Sparky, I see Obama's campaign pulled both fake endorsement from their site. Good for them. To think Daily Kos would sink that low to say Hannity endorses Obama. Don't you see enough of those children games in school? Another piece of the puzzle falls in place.

[nevets]

AA, was that you who got burned by Dori giving the same inane defense. Were you Genie?

[AuthenticAndrew]

No, I didn't hear his counter point but if you're not willing to present it then it might as well not exist. I can't go back and forth with Monson because he's not here, but you are.

The key thing to understand is that Imus and Wright hold two entirely different positions of influence, responsibility and scope. When one of them says something racist it has a much different implication than when the other does. Imus' use of racism was much worse for that fact that it reaches a very general very large audience. The pastor is preaching to a very very select audience in a very select place, and you can say it's irresponsible for the pastor to spew racism to a couple hundred people but it's far removed from the scope of Imus.

Another difference, because you can never have enough, is that Imus comments were plain mean, it was off the cuff calous racism. The pastors racist remarks were within the context of straight faced serious social commentary.

Again, I'm pulling for Hillary but I have to stop for a second to point out that that line of attack against Obama is retarded.

[sparky]

Steven, it was not the Daily Kos site, it was the Obama for President site,

I sure wish I had some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you!

[Duffman]

Puts: With all due respect, watching that clip I could plainly see bullets whizzing all around her and she keeping her cool so well that it was almost unnoticeable. So, I don't know why you didn't pick up on that? :)

[...I guess we all tend to 'embellish' once in a while......and it all depends on what the definition of is snipe is...:)

[Duffman]

"Duff, seeing how Hillary was at the White House the day the blue dress got the stain on it. you think there might have been a threesome going on."

steven, are you insinuating that possibly the Clinton dog 'Buddy' was somehow involved in all this? How dare you! :)
[Seriously, if you read a little further in her chronicles of daily activity - you'll see that that day was laundry day at the White House, thus fully explaining where Mrs Clinton dutifully was.]

[Duffman]

'Duffman, you made a reasonably thoughtful post above. I think there's hope for you.'

Oh, a gracious thank ye me lady...I do try so very hard to please - in an all-aspiring desire to rise to your level. :)