take your answer off the air...

  • HorsesAss.Org: the straight poop on WA politics & the press
    progressive brilliance from the guy who pointed out Tim Eyman's nascent horse's-assedness
  • Talker's Magazine
    The quirky talk radio trade mag. Check the Talk Radio Research Project- it's not very scientific, but places on the top 15 talkers list (scroll down to Talk Radio Audiences By Size)) are as hotly contested as Emmys (and mean just about as much).
  • The Advocate
    No, not THAT Advocate... it's the Northwest Progressive Institute's Official Blog.
  • Media Matters
    Documentation of right-wing media in video, audio and text.
  • Orcinus
    home of David Neiwert, freelance investigative journalist and author who writes extensively about far-right hate groups
  • Hominid Views
    "People, politics, science, and whatnot" Darryl is a statistician who fights imperialism with empiricism, gives good links and wry commentary.
  • Jesus' General
    An 11 on the Manly Scale of Absolute Gender, a 12 on the Heavenly Scale of the 10 Commandments and a 6 on the earthly scale of the Immaculately Groomed.
  • Howie in Seattle
    Howie Martin is the Abe Linkin' of progressive Seattle.
  • Streaming Radio Guide
    Hellishly long (5795!) list of radio streaming, steaming on the Internets.
  • The Naked Loon
    News satire -- The Onion in the Seattle petunia patch.
  • Irrational Public Radio
    "informs, challenges, soothes and/or berates, and does so with a pleasing vocal cadence and unmatched enunciation. When you listen to IPR, integrity washes over you like lava, with the pleasing familiarity of a medium-roast coffee and a sensible muffin."
  • The Maddow Blog
    Here's the hyper-interactive La Raych of MSNBC. daily show-vids, freakishly geeky research, and classy graphics.
  • Northwest Broadcasters
    The AM, FM, TV and digital broadcasters of Northwest Washington, USA and Southwest British Columbia, Canada. From Kelso, WA to the northern tip of Vancouver Island, BC - call letters, formats, slogans, networks, technical data, and transmitter maps. Plus "recent" news.
  • News Corpse
    The Internet's chronicle of media decay.
  • The Moderate Voice
    The voice of reason in the age of Obama, and the politics of the far-middle.
  • News Hounds
    Dogged dogging of Fox News by a team who seems to watch every minute of the cable channel so you don't have to.
  • HistoryLink
    Fun to read and free encyclopedia of Washington State history. Founded by the late Walt Crowley, it's an indispensable tool and entertainment source for history wonks and surfers alike.

right-wing blogs we like

  • The Reagan Wing
    Hearin lies the real heart of Washington State Republicans. Doug Parris runs this red-meat social conservative group site which bars no holds when it comes to saying who they are and who they're not; what they believe and what they don't; who their friends are and where the rest of the Republicans can go. Well-written, and flaming.
  • Orbusmax
    inexhaustible Drudgery of NW conservative news
  • The Radio Equalizer
    prolific former Seattle KVI, KIRO talk host speaks authoritatively about radio.
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« Seattle arbitron ratings: liberal talk sucks, so does KVI- has everybody gone satellite? | Main | Darcy burner calls out her fellow democrats on wiretapping »

August 11, 2007

Comments

Andrew

I know I listen to talk radio but I'm proud fellow liberals don't. It means they are out playing frisbee in a grassy clearing, living their lives and enjoying themselves. Woe is us who have a compulsion for worrying about things safely beyond our control to the point of deriving comfort from listening to cocksure blabberers confirm our beliefs. I'm a rare skittish kind of liberal but amongst conservatives there's no shortage of uncertainty and paranoia. The ratings say so.

seattlejew

The arbitron data is clear .. the issue is NOT liberal vs cons, the issue is that folks are tired of the kabukl style of most talk radio. Limbaugh, Hannity are evil people, but folks listen for the bite .. kind of like some popel put chili sauce into everything they eat.

A better question, it sees to me, is why commercial radio does not imitate NPR? Out of total ignorance of the facts, I suggest that NPR has a better business model and generates more $$$ for production costs. Hell, I bet some of NPR is actually written and loff-air folks are being paid to do things like research.

This opens a fascinating possibility for synergism of wen and radio. The web is very good at lowering the costs of information gathering and publication. The web is also becoming a large sup for ad dollars.

So ... I wonder if one could not combine an ad supported web site with an information rich radio show for fun and profit. How long is it before KOS adds a broadcast version? of Huffpost?

Andrew

That doesn't make sense. You say the ratings prove people want spicy radio but then ask why station don't emulate NPR? And why would people be tired kabukl style radio now and not a few months or a few years ago?

sparky

Comments I have read indicate that the Internet is why you don't see as many people at protests on the streets anymore. It is more efficient, and you reach far more people with Web 2.0 Activism is alive and well. We just dont need to walk the streets carrying signs anymore.

seattlejew

Andrew

The point is that all TRadio, conservative as well is in decline while NPR is doing well. Isn't the obvious answer for commercial radio to compete with NPR?

sparky

You may be correct but the inet and radio function differently. Radio is usually a surr surr, background activity. The answer, it seems to me, would be an integration of radio and net. Current efforts to do that are primitive.

Gusto

Screw the streets. Protest at the polls. I think we all did that quite well last November.

Come 2008, we will crush the nuts of the Republicans.

Be One of Us, or you are against Us.

joanie

It isn't just KUOW . . . it is CSpan, Bill Moyers and public tv, the blogosphere, books, the New Yorker, Mother Jones and Atlantic Monthly . . . liberals are out there finding information, comparing and contrasting information, and looking for facts, truth and substance. They get their comedy from Jon Stewart.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that people on the right are either business majors and they're watching the money channels and reading the financial pages of the Wall Street Journal or they are the joe sixpacks who sit in front of 24, crime shows and situation comedies. Their handbook on terrorism and homeland security is 24.

Also, I said this I think, Chris from the blog MY DD studied the blogosphere going back several years and he said the right owned two thirds of it in 2003 and now the left owns that two thirds. It failed to capture the market on the right - too much work! The right would rather sit back and be told. . . liberals, on the other hand, fact check the fact checker.

We are the champions of democracy!

Oh, one more thing: if Air America thinks this new line up which features a lot of "panel" type programming on the weekend is going to work, I think they are wrong. I think they are trying to sound like NPR . . . but it just doesn't set well with me.

seattlejew

I gave up listening to AA after Franken .. they are only useful when I need a shot of adrenalin.

I a curious about their week ends now and will listen. Is it podcast?

Back here, it seems to me we all want Goldie to make it. Contrary t some here, I think he has a great radio presence. He is one of the best interviewers I have heard ... reminds me of Long John Silver or the young Larry King.

At the same tie listen to Dori and David even the two Ronnies. All other issues or political spectrum aside, they ARE a lot like the commentary shows on NPR. They cover a variety of topics, not limited to Darcy-Demographics. Nor is any of these folks a right or left triumphalist.

NPR is great but it is not local and not political. I still think a commercial version of NPR with local content would brkng in a large listenr base.

joanie

Jew, I confess to being a little tired of the Mike Malloy anger-fest. Peter Erbe sat in for him for several days a week or two ago. I really liked listening to Erbe . . . wish he were on more. I don't consider Randi's show an "anger-fest." She provides inforrmation and it is sourced. You can make up your own mind. If you don't want to know what's going on in Congress and elsewhere, then don't listen. But, she deals in information, like it or not.

I like a program host. I appreciate a consistent style . . . too many hosts is like watching Washington Week in Review. It gets PC and bland. I think AA is getting PC and bland. And some of their new talent isn't particularly good. Don't care for David Riley or Clout with Richard Green although I do listen to Clout occasionally. I miss Laura Flanders. Fortunately they still feature a repeat of the Young Turks whom I like. They have a Newsweek team for an hour and some time with Mark Green, Arianna Huffington and Bob Kerrey who is very forgettable. They have to be nice to each other and sometimes things don't get very deep. I like Sam Seder and hope they keep him for the three-hour time slot. I heard it was being cut back to one hour but hasn't happened yet.

Perhaps i'm just a creature of habit and need to adjust to the new people and schedule.


One more thing: I don't listen to Goldy much. I don't mind his voice when he's filling in for others. He keeps it controlled. But on his own show, he's shrill too much of the time. Anybody can be shrill but most good hosts know better. I just don't care for it - it grates. Also, sometimes he gets a lilttle to much into himself. Too much "all about me" stuff. And too much promoting of horsesass. These are little things but they add up. So, I turn to the Young Turks . . . just my personal taste I guess. I'd love to listen to Goldy more because his heart is in the right place and his intellect is excellent. It is just his delivery and tendency towards ego. And often when he has local fellow bloggers, it sounds like a political frat party.

So, there you are.

mankus

SJ: what do you mean NPR is not local? They have large local newsrooms on both KUOW and KPLU wth indepth segments of local news- at least more indepth thancommerial radio or TV.
As far as issues talk, there's Weekday, The Conversation and The Beat. what do you want for local?

Andrew

sparky said "Comments I have read indicate that the Internet is why you don't see as many people at protests on the streets anymore. It is more efficient, and you reach far more people with Web 2.0 Activism is alive and well. We just dont need to walk the streets carrying signs anymore."

That can't be true. Traditional picket protests reach an audience that isn't looking for you, webiste reach an audience that set out looking for something to begin with.

The internet doesn't replace radio either as you can't browse the web and drive or work at the same time, but you can do those things while listening to the radio. I got hooked on talk radio when I worked at a fast food restaurant in the late 90's.

The latest problem I have with talk radio, and I'm sure I'm not alone, is the extremely narrow range of subject matter. Art Bell had great rating talking about sci-fi related themes, but all we get now are "pan-fried controversies out of neighborhood news."

I liked when they covered Christopher Hitchen's new anti-god book but it took his book to spark the subject, so it stays a rare topic.

Andrew

seattlejew says "The point is that all TRadio, conservative as well is in decline while NPR is doing well. Isn't the obvious answer for commercial radio to compete with NPR?"

I don't think it's that simple. For one thing it's on FM. It has less competition and stands in higher contrast to music. Second, it has an overly specific apeal. If you add up all the listeners of KTTH, KVI, KPTK and KIRO I'm sure it represents a bigger playing field than you'd get competing for NPR listeners. Third, I doubt commercial stations could even match NPR in terms of quality if they tried.

I'm sure they've brought the idea of mimicking NPR in meetings and for reasons uknown to us, shot down the idea, and this must have come up more than once so I have a some faith that the reasoning must be substantial.

Derek Smalls  Bass Guitar

Yes, we must run over the republicans with the biggest Hemi invented, ok?

stevemc

Well, I grew up on talk radio and spent many years listening to the old KING-AM talkers and KIRO. I listened to NPR then, and I still listen to NPR: that part hasn't changed. What has changed is that KIRO went from middle of the road to liberal hosts to right wing hosts and the drive time moron duo.

Air America, as some have stated, is basically good for pumping me up (although if Rachel Maddow was on at a time I could listen, I would.) The lack of local voices is a significant turnoff, scheduled traffic break-in reports just emphasizes that instead of making up for it.

Where I've gone is to podcasts. My commute is filled with tech / politics / film / food podcasts. Ironically, this is actually probably hurting public radio more than commercial, since the podcasts of "Wait, Wait...", "On the Media" etc. don't ever take me to KUOW or KPLU.

Would I come back to AM talk in my drive time commute or evenings at the computer? Sure, but I see no sign that the programmers have any interest in providing the kind of programming I want.

The sad fact is that these guys could be thriving, but they're instead programming themselves into obsolescence.

seattlejew

I suspect that the market share held by NPR would be bigger if they were AM.

Goldy and modulation? Yeh .. he could use some voice coaching or just keep the mike further away.

Podworld .. me too. I have subscribed to a lot of stuff and enjoy mixing my station.

KUOW local .. I agree.

Cost .. I 'spect this si a big issue. NPR has a large, national organization and several large local outlets with programming dollars. OTOH a talneted host and producer could not only findplenty of material, the result would make for good syndication.

nevets

Sparky,

"the Internet is why you don't see as many people at protests on the streets anymore"

What number in your "How to avoid Anti-War protests" book is this excuse. You seem to come up with excuse after excuse to skip out of every anti-war protest held in the NW. But Hey, at least you have your sign in the rear window in your car.

wutitiz

I have never heard a compelling explanation for why conservatives dominate talk radio, or why libs dominate, say, ABC, NBC, &CBS news. Most of the attempts have the ring of self-serving rationalization. I've heard libs argue that they're too intellectual for talk radio, and cons argue that libs can't stand up to interactive debate. Anyone care to take a stab?

seattlejew

Wutitiz

I find your premise wrong. By what stretch of the imagination are ABC, NBC, and CBS "liberal?"

Your comment shows the awesome success of the right in demonizing everything to the left of some of the extreme conservative views

wutitiz

Obviously depends on your def of 'liberal,' but consider that 2 of 3 have former Dems as Sunday show hosts (George S. and Tim R.) Whatever they are, they're sure as hell not conservative (or libertarian). But rather than split hairs over that, do you have any thoughts on why the (let's call it) right-of-center owns one form of media (talk radio) while the left-of-center owns others?

Andrew

wutitiz says "I have never heard a compelling explanation for why conservatives dominate talk radio, or why libs dominate, say, ABC, NBC, &CBS news. Anyone care to take a stab?

If national news is liberal it's probably because it's produced liberal coastal cities.

Conservative talk usualy seems to be based on hate for liberals, talking about how they are ruining the country with their whimsical communist ways, as opposed to having well measured debates about the merits of supply side economics, so I don't think conservative talk radio is fueled by intelectualism or curiosity, it's fueled by hatred and paranoia. Liberal talk radio fails because liberals aren't hateful or scared enough for the medium.

Andrew

wutitz says "But rather than split hairs over that, do you have any thoughts on why the (let's call it) right-of-center owns one form of media (talk radio) while the left-of-center owns others?"

I'll report, you decide: talk radio is dominantly opinion and punditry, most forms of media accused of being liberal are journalistic and nearly free of skew. Honestly, the explanations conservatives have for why national news is liberal is dubious and anecdotal.

You said "consider that 2 of 3 have former Dems as Sunday show hosts (George S. and Tim R.)

Wow, you can't accuse them of SAYING anything liberal, only having BEEN liberal. If I were you I'd leave this fish where you found it.

PugetSound

"Liberal talk radio fails because liberals aren't hateful or scared enough for the medium."

it can't be for a lack of hateful or scared liberals. just cruise around the web for a bit. BOTH sides have hateful/scared people. assigning one side all the bad traits and the otherside all the good traits is a poor way to fry a fish, andrew.

wutitiz

Andrew: honestly, I didn't mean to "accuse" anyone of anything. I only mean to say that if somebody was a senior aide to President Clinton, he probably tilts leftward. Similarly, former FOX host Tony Snow, who now works for W, probably tilts right.

Andrew

PugetSound says "it can't be for a lack of hateful or scared liberals. just cruise around the web for a bit. BOTH sides have hateful/scared people. assigning one side all the bad traits and the otherside all the good traits is a poor way to fry a fish, andrew."

I did not say liberals aren't angry AT ALL, I said they aren't angry ENOUGH. Thanks for throwing in an absolute where there previously was none.

It's true that there are liberal blogs overflowing with hatred, but the facts speak for themselves. While conservative drive to work they listent to talk hosts hating on liberals.

While liberals drive to work they listen to music.

Andrew

wutitz says "if somebody was a senior aide to President Clinton, he probably tilts leftward. Similarly, former FOX host Tony Snow, who now works for W, probably tilts right."

Yet aparently the degree to which this happens is so negligible that you can't even claim it's a certainty, whereas you can do the math and see that Fox News has many times more conservative pundits than liberal pundits.

As long as Fox News is going to over-represent your conservative views while claiming "we report, you decide" then you ought to shuts up about any other network doing the same in reverse.

sara huffman

Ed Schultz is way out of his league.All his life he was a big conservative prick and he change to a liberal prick to gain ratingsand money. He is a fake.
Well, now it is showing.
Tthe act is finally over for Ed Schultz.
Listners have caught on and cant stand his poor presentation of hollering, bitching, lying on the radio.

Ish!

WarVet

nevets, yer kinda a stupid piece of shit aren't ya.
Well, every board needs one. Might as well be you.

PugetSound

Paul Harvey is my hero, if he wasn't taken by that elderly milf at the rest home, he'd be all mine.

PugetSound

hey andrew,
i didn't throw have to throw in any straw to your argument, it had plenty all ready.

and for the individual posting under my name the below, why don't you post under your own.


"Paul Harvey is my hero, if he wasn't taken by that elderly milf at the rest home, he'd be all mine.

Posted by: PugetSound | August 12, 2007 at 05:04 PM"

nevets pro-lasped anus

I have a good reason for avoiding any military service. I along with Lard-Ass Limbaugh have a huge cyst in my butt, so there, McGovern libs!

nevets pro-lasped anus

I have a good reason for avoiding any military service. I along with Lard-Ass Limbaugh have a huge cyst in my butt, so there, McGovern libs!

nevets pro-lasped anus

I have a good reason for avoiding any military service. I along with Lard-Ass Limbaugh have a huge cyst in my butt, so there, McGovern libs!

PugetSound

so lets see, we have someone jumping on and pretending to be nevets, myself, and duff.
hmmm, i wonder who that could be?

And for the record, at 94 ol paul harvey would have enough trouble with a Gilf let alone a Milf.

joanie

Wutitis: if somebody was a senior aide to President Clinton, he probably tilts leftward.

I will post again just for you: Ted Lowi of Cornell University says "President Clinton was the last great Republican president."

He was in the position of Harold Ford today - the leader of the DLC which was a democratic vehicle made up of corporate money to make the Democrats more like the Republicans.

I learned this from Sam Seder today. Michael, if you were interested in a thesis explaining our different points of view - yours and mine - about the Democrats and how important primaries are in getting establishment Dems further left where they should be, you should have caught Seder's show today and his interview with Marcos (sp?)

It was one of Seder's best and very informative regarding the history of our party for the last twenty years or so and why we have moved so far right. The DLC along with Bill Clinton worked to make us more like Republicans. They sold us out.

How much more you gonna take, Michael?

I am now off again to Birch Bay. I forgot something and had to return home but am gone again. Have fun guys and girls and Duffman.

Andrew

puget sound says "hey andrew,
i didn't throw have to throw in any straw to your argument, it had plenty all ready.
"

What?

PugetSound

andrew
my inference was that you were making a straw man argument in your response to me. i should have been a little more direct.

Putz' Peyronie's

Yeah, you fuckin should have...

nevets

WarVet wrote,

"nevets, yer kinda a stupid piece of shit aren't ya.
Well, every board needs one. Might as well be you."


If you want pass the torch to me thats fine, but I still think you are better suited for the title (with post like the one above) so if you want to keep it you can. And thank you for your service to our great Nation in it's time of need.

Andrew

PS, I can't find the strawman of which you speak, but congratulations on effectively derailing the debate.

PugetSound

andrew sez,
"I can't find the strawman of which you speak, but congratulations on effectively derailing the debate"
You were the engineer of your own train (argument) that derailed there, casey jones.

But, I'll try again on my point which is that BOTH sides have hateful/scared people. assigning one side all the bad traits and the otherside all the good traits is a fairly broad brush.

In regards to your point, "I don't think conservative talk radio is fueled by intelectualism or curiosity, it's fueled by hatred and paranoia."

Have you ever listened to Randi? She's one of the most popular talkers on the left and is just a Rush from the liberal point of view. Don't ya get it? Or is it because your in agreement you not really breaking down what she is saying?
I'm not saying that conservative radio is good radio and liberal radio is bad radio. I'm just pointing out that the hatred and paronia is on both sides of the aisle. It's not exclusive to one side or the other. Not all, but most. If you can't get that elemental point I can't break it down anymore than that. Best of luck to you.

Andrew

Sure there are some hateful liberal talkers, but there are FAAAAR more conservative hate talkers, which is the whole friggin point to begin with, and you're carrying on as if you didn't know that or as if it doesn't matter. Another shining example of selective observation making the world a better place for some of us.

PugetSound

andrew
"Sure there are some hateful liberal talkers, but there are FAAAAR more conservative hate talkers,..."

nice wriggle there andrew, actually your earlier point had seemed to be "Liberal talk radio fails because liberals aren't hateful or scared enough for the medium."

to which I pointed out that it can't be for a lack of liberal haters as any two minute cruise on the internet can find plenty of liberal hate -as much conservative hater discourse- on the net.

PugetSound

Sorry, I dont mean to sound like an ass. I just think you should be consistent.

Andrew

I think you've lost the debate so you're going back to an earlier post in a desperate last second attempt to win some ground.

My point that conservative hatred greatly overshadows any liberal equivalent still stands.

That was fun. Thanks for hanging in there as long as you did.

Gremlin

I know that at least for me two things bother me about Talk Radio--which I listen to far too much, but hate, hate, hate the fake liberal double-speak of Ed Schultz--actually that's the first one, they should take this liar off the air and number two is the advertising on Liberal radio, which should be fundamentally different than the depressed, fat, white male advertisinf that you hear on conservative radio. We shouldn't be hearing all of these self-help, economic gloom ads, becuae that is a total misumderstanding of their market. Seattle advertising, especially should be more uplifting, about the arts, community, alternative living etc. It shouldn't be about balding, filing for bankruptcy and impotence--leave that to the schlubs at conservative radio. I get depressed just from the commercials here, in Seattle after awhile.

Steve Johnson

Ed Schultz is an American Hero.

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    pacific nw talk stations

    • KIRO 710ESPN Seattle 710 KHz
      Games and sports-blabber
    • KIROFM 97.3
      Multi-format: news and nearly all local talk. This is where classic KIRO AM news talk radio went... hopefully, not to die. The home of Dave Ross & Luke Burbank, Dori Monson, Ron & Don, Frank Shiers, Bill Radke, Linda Thomas, Tony Miner and George Noory.
    • KUOW FM 94.9
      Seattle's foremost public radio news and talk.
    • KVI am 570 KHz
      Visit the burnt-out husk of one of the seminal right-wing talkers in all the land. Here's where once trilled the reactionary tones of Rush Limbaugh, John Carlson, Kirby Wilbur, Mike Siegel, Peter Weissbach, Floyd Brown, Dinky Donkey, and Bryan Suits. Now it's Top 40 hits from the '60's & '70's aimed at that diminishing crowd who still remembers them and can still hear.
    • KTTH am 770 KHz
      Right wing home of local, and a whole bunch of syndicated righties such as Glennn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Medved, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Lars Larsony, and for an hour a day: live & local David Boze.
    • KPTK am 1090 KHz
      Syndicated liberal talk. Stephanie Miller, Thom Hartmann, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes, Norman Goldman fill in the large hole to the left on Northwest radio dial.
    • KLFE AM 1590 kHz
      Syndicated right-wing 2nd stringers like Mark Levin, Bill Bennett, Mike Gallagher, Dennis Prager, Dennis Miller and Hugh Hewitt inhabit this timid-voiced neighbor honker for your radio enjoyment (unless you're behind something large like Costco).
    • KOMOAM
      News, traffic, Ken Schram and John Carlson.
    • Washington State Radio Stations
      Comprehensive list of every danged AM & FM station on the dial.
    • KKOL am 1300 KHz
      Once a rabid right-wing talker, except for Lou Dobbs, it's all business....