"Hollywood Fred" Thompson: who do you think he is?

Social conservatives and hard-ass righties are all wetting themselves now that it appears that the old Tennessee walker, Fred Thompson, is in the Republican race for 2008.

The pundit class, and Republicans underwhelmed and saddened by the mighty herd of flawed GOP candidates, have been heaping honey on Fred: old fashioned values, Washington outsider, plain talker, (read southern accent) tough, no nonsense, culturally conservative, tall, plus- he's a 2nd rate actor- all qualities that play well in the Daddy Party.

Thompson is, by these lights, the new Ronald Reagan. He's the guy he plays on TV- the no-bullshit general; the straight-talking, values-driven prosecutor; the CIA chief; the wise, avuncular Senator; the U.S. President.

Our Rachel Maddow (KPTK m-f, 3-5p) talked to Salon.com columnist Glenn Greenwald Thursday who has written a long, good article which points out the reality of the Tennessee Republican citizen/saviour.

Greenwald explains the appeal:

For the authoritarians comprising the Republican base and the faux-masculine-power-worshipping media pundits, what is "appealing" about Giluliani is that he conveys: "You just wait until daddy gets home." Craving a stern "daddy" as a political leader is the root of the authoritarian mind. Yet these are the warped images that not only dominate their psyches, but their political "analysis" as well.

But is Thompson our (your) daddy, or does he only play one on TV? Greenwald writes: "This folksy, down-home, regular guy has spent his entire adult life as a lawyer and lobbyist in Washington, except when he was an actor in Hollywood.

Here's his official bio.

As you can see, as fellow tough-guy Republicans Rudy Giuliani and Newt Gingrish, he's never done military service, and avoided the Vietnam War, yet he reads such righteous ads like this so very convincingly.

But the illusion of manliness cliches, tough guy poses, and empty gestures of "cultural conservatism" are what the Republican base seeks, and media simpletons like Fineman, Halperin and Matthews eat it all up just as hungrily. That's how twice-and-thrice-divorced and draft-avoiding individuals like Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh become media symbols of the Christian "values voters" and "tough guy," "tough-on-defense" stalwarts.

Thompson is quite adamant about the sanctity of the one woman, one man marriage and has voted against gay rights bills including ones for gay marriage. But traditional marriage seems to be sacred  only for others- his own marital history has been, well, non-traditional, to say the least.

Unlike, say, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and John Edwards -- all of whom are still married to their first spouse -- Thompson divorced his wife (and the mother of his two children) after 25 years of marriage and then proceeded to marry a woman 25 years younger than he.

As you can see from our picture of the couple after the 2006 White House Correspondent's Dinner, they make quite a striking couple- she's four years younger than his daughter.

Values voters may not appreciate his 'tween marital sportin' life: according to The Washington Post's Lloyd Grove in 2002:

"Hollywood Fred," as the divorced Thompson was nicknamed because of his successful movie career, has been linked to a variety of women, including country singer Lorrie Morgan, pundit-pollster Kellyanne Fitzpatrick, Time magazine writer Margaret Carlson, Nathans restaurant owner Carol Joynt and Washington PR executive Sydney Ferguson.

From The Politico's Mike Allen:

During a question-and-answer session with House members on April 18, Thompson was asked about his colorful dating history from 1985 to 2002, while he was divorced.

"I was single for a long time, and, yep, I chased a lot of women," Thompson replied, chuckling, according to an attendee who took notes. "And a lot of women chased me. And those that chased me tended to catch me." 

(For a party who loves to savage "Hollywood elites,"it's puzzling that the biggest GOP stars-  Reagan, Schwarzenegger, now Thompson- have been actors with the recquisite divorces and Hollywood lig=festyles who played manly-man roles in the movies. (We'd mention George Murphy, and Ron Silver, but who'd know who we were talking about?) Democrats take all the heat about Hollywood, but R's actually put actor at the head of their party). 

Fred Thompson is an unknown, really- especially to the conservatives who are rather desperately hearkening unto him right now.

We can pretty much discard the pre-campaign legends- there's simply no indication from his past that he's anything more than a Hollywood actor, Washington politician, and a lawyer/lobbyist with the moral compass you'd expect from someone with such a resumé.

Comments

[Duffman]

It doesn't matter who the Repubs throw out there, they don't have a prayer in this upcoming election!
It will be Mrs Clinton and/or Obama, period!!!

[Brian]

Fred's are man ! Hooty Hoo!
May God Bless !
TED NUGENT!
Hay Duffman! you still DoA man !

[Robinz]

I swear, I thought that was a picture of Kelsey Grammer. So that must mean that when Kelsey gets old he'll look like Fred Thompson does now. Ewwwwww....if he doesn't already. Haven't seen KG in anything in awhile. :)

Robinz

[joanie]

I heard that on Maddow as well. Put an interesting face on Thompson. I wonder, however, if the Dems will know how to exploit it? Seems like they don't do well at such things. I mean, Edwards is hardly the front runner, but we already know more about his hair than any intelligent person wants to know or cares about.

Somebody besides writers and Maddow need to get the word out about Maddow. I think we need a few comedy writers to get going . . . maybe Olberman should do a couple of monologues, SNL a regular hit piece, and whoever and whatever else it takes to show this guy for what he is. We need some talent that can turn these people into the jokes they really are.

Sorry, if we don't, the right may be having the last laugh.

[Jim Robinson]

Fred thinks he can "act" his way into the White House like he "acted" his way in to bed of many women in and around DC, including his wife, 25 years his junior.

[seattlejew]

Thompson and Divinity

I just posted the ultimate Thompson picture. The great man and his ehtereal wife. Apparently she is an imperfect digital creation.

Take a look.

seattlejew

[Duffman]

Bla'm already posted that!

Bla'm already posted that!

[seattlejew]

oops .. the I discovered Michael had posted the same image. Never mind .. but please DO notice that the faux wife has no fet.

Can anybody spell Jessica Rabbit?

[Duffman]

...and with 'wings' like that, I'm sure Fred can discount the feet : )

[sparky]

Fred married a zygote..does she have her learner's permit yet?

....as heard on Stephanie Miller show this morning..

[Duffman]

Why that little spermatozoon!

[Duffman]

Just as an aside, in my opinion John Edwards' quest for funds is sickening.
When I found out that Elizabeth had cancer, because a good friend of mine just successfully got thru the process of healing and recovery I sent a msg to her recommending a treatment center and letting her know that my thoughts are with her. Did I get a response? Why yes and I'm still getting them; in terms of soliciting for $funds...the latest just a few minutes ago (from his parents, no less). Did I get a 'thanks for your concern' acknowledgment....NO. Now I'm on a list I can't seem to get off of?
He wouldn't get my vote if he was the sole candidate!!!

[tj]

Pointless (but valid) gripe:

can you stop placing the photos in the articles as links? for the two photos attached to this article, and the photo attached to the previous, clicking on them results in opening the photo in another window in which the photo is exactly the same size.

very redundant, and very annoying.

[blathering michael]

I'll gladly do that- but why do you click on them? just curious...

[Mungo]

I wanted a larger photo of his wife's knockers..hey, I'm a shallow guy...but honest.

[ogre]

Mongo: you speaketh what everyone thinketh.

[poops]

those two will be national treasures, monuments, if you will, if he's elected.

[Junkyard]

There is nothing tough or folksy about Fred Thompson. He is but an actor—a con man—who has spent years honing both his tough-guy and down-home demeanor to fool the public. Thompson is the ultimate faker—a flimflammer with a red pickup truck that is being brought out by the GOP for his next scam on the political stage.

Here’s what the mainstream media won't tell you about Snake Oil: He’s spent a good part of his political career in craven endeavors. From 1975 to 1992 Thompson was a lobbyist for corporations such as Westinghouse and General Electric, and most notoriously, the Tennessee Savings and Loan League.

Actors make good con men and con men make good actors. And in 1982, Thompson was vigorously lobbying for legislation to deregulate the Savings and Loan industry although he knew it could destroy the foundations of the institution. The deregulation that ensued gave the thrifts the freedom to invest in risky speculations and gamble away the savings of U.S. consumers.

The Savings and Loan debacle was the crowning moment of the Bush Oligarchy. Over one thousand thrift institutions collapsed and hundreds of thousands of Americans lost their life savings. The ultimate cost of the crisis was $150 billion and George H.W. Bush bailed out the thrifts to the tune of $125 billion, which contributed greatly to the largest budget deficits this country had ever seen to that point. These deficits heralded the 1990-91 recession, one of the lowest points of our nation’s economic viability since the Great Depression.

John Kenneth Galbraith called the Savings and Loan Scandal, “the largest and costliest venture in public misfeasance, malfeasance, and larceny of all time.”

[N in Seattle]

Junkyard quotes J.K. Galbraith on the elder Bush's S&L scandal:

the largest and costliest venture in public misfeasance, malfeasance, and larceny of all time

Obviously a dated quotation.

Galbraith lived until April 2006, more than long enough to see that Poppy's scandal was a piker compared to the length, cost, malfeasance, and larceny of the war perpetrated by Dubya. Bush41 must be so, so, so very proud of Bush43.

[Andrew]

Junkyard, the only people who will agree with your evaluation won't vote for any Repuglican anyway.

Not all actors are con artists and his involvement with the S&L stuff doesn't make him unelectable obviously.

[joanie]

Junkyard: Thompson was vigorously lobbying for legislation to deregulate the Savings and Loan industry although he knew it could destroy the foundations of the institution.

Sure you're not giving him more credit than he's worth? From what I heard on Maddow's show, he knows about himself, money and women.

Those are the qualities that seem to be in demand on the far right these days.

[joanie]

Junkyard: Thompson was vigorously lobbying for legislation to deregulate the Savings and Loan industry although he knew it could destroy the foundations of the institution.

Sure you're not giving him more credit than he's worth? From what I heard on Maddow's show, he knows about himself, money and women.

Those are the qualities that seem to be in demand on the far right these days.

Michael, David Bender said on Maddow today that "independents" are growing and now comprise about 33% of the electorate. He thinks - and I agree - that we may see the advent of a viable third party in the relatively near future.

With the Dems owing the coporate elite as much as the Republicans, the left has no party.

[Brian]

well, I wonder what Frankie( My ratings are in the bucket sinking ) Shiers is going to talk about tonight?????????
I know , I know!!!!!!!!
What the moring show talked about on 770am
what the moring show talked about on KVI 570 am talked about
What Dori talked about
What Ron and Don talked about
Well , I think that covered it.
Frankie DUDE! A message from the blogster!
you raings are bad you know we know it, so why would you keep doing the same show for mat?
remember what happend to the Styblehead his rating were the worst that KIRO 710 am ever seen before , and styblehead knew this also and stayed with the same for mat, and look at him now doing free radio on sunday nights for 3 hours , Think about it DUDE! Show prep is like home work for kids work on it !

[joanie]

Sorry, folks, I forgot that darn thing posts without a code these days . . . didn't mean to repeat but thought of something to add. Oh dear. :)

[nevets]

Brian, not that Frankie wont talk about what he talked about, but if you would have done your homework, you would have known that Rum and Dumb were not on air today, Phil the news junkie filled in for both of them.

[Mungo]

Phil is tolerable when he isn't kissing Dori's ass.

[Andrew]

Phil is intolerable because I know he'd kiss Dori's ass if Dori were there.

[Brian]

I for got to put the pod cast in Sorry HOmeWork was done yesterday As Vinnie would Say TaNk"S

[Robinz]

You know it occurs to me that this might be a great scam for a politician who might want to make some cash. If Fred Thompson puts together an exploratory comity ect. and collects lots and lots of cash to see if he might be a viable candidate, does he get to keep all those contributions if he decides to not run? Seems to me that a couple of those shady types (see Tom Delay) used their campaign money for lawyers. hhhmmm.

Robinz

[Robinz]

One more bit of Thompson gossip. It's said by the crazy Peggy Noonan (so take it for what it's worth from that source) that Thompson is lazy.....

Man we do not need another lazy president.

Robinz

[joanie]

Peggy Noonan said that? Oh, my god. Must be true, then.

I wonder if Thompson is a Christian? That must be why Peggy took off on him . . . otherwise, can't imagine her wandering off the Republican playground.

[Robinz]

otherwise, can't imagine her wandering off the Republican playground

You should read Wolcott's latest blog post. He has some choice quotes from a very disillusioned Peggy. The rose colored glasses are on the floor smashed to bits from the sounds of it. About time.

Robinz

[joanie]

Rose-colored glasses . . . that's Peggy! I'll have to check out that column. Thanks, Robin.

Now, for of Michael's readers that want a war with Iran, you just might get it.
"According to this official, Cheney believes that Bush can not be counted on to make the "right decision" when it comes to dealing with Iran and thus Cheney believes that he must tie the President's hands."

Things are gettin' scarier and scarier.

[Robinz]

The problem we have is that Darth and the Decider have nothing to lose at this point. Almost done with the second term, nobody, hell not even Peggy, likes them anymore, up to their collective tail ends in investigations, so I think it's become "what the hell" time at the White house. Those two feeling like there is nothing to lose is not a good place for the rest of us to be.

[blathering michael]

Joanie: a viable party of independents? isn't that oxymoronic? If the left you speak of could put together something, it'd almost by definition throw the election to the R's, like Perot did for the D's in '92.
The left is already making a huge impact on the party w/the blogosphere and MoveOn, etc.
In their fury, some anti-war lefties mistakenly equate a tactical retreat with total capitulation, failing to recognize the substantial progress Democrats have made in their five months in power. Splintering now- and it would be deconstruction- would really be stoopid, and so wearyingly typical of the left.
When we start feeling like we're winning, we start breaking apart. The R's do just the opposite, and they won and won for 40 years.
We must beware the perfect being the enemy of the good, and throwing away this huge political opportunity we've been given.
Remember, it was nothing we did that got us here- it was what they did and spectacularly failed to do.
We got a break- we've got a lot to prove to the voters. let's not fuck it up again with another Nader or self-indulgent junk politics.

[joanie]

How did you get to be so good with words, Michael? And so very logical?

I don't think the independents will make a third party really . . . but they could shake the tree a bit. That's why I'm so upset with you on this primary issue. Something needs to get the Dems back to the left . . . You say you support the left but you don't. You support a label. Your party left you a long time ago . . .

We need the Democratic party to represent Democratic values and issues again; otherwise, who cares?

Ted Lowi at Cornell writes that Bill Clinton was the last great Republican president; Cenk on the Young Turks says Hillary is further right than he was when he was a Republican.

You may want to give in just to keep your party (your team) in place. But, I'm not sure I'm need to win so much . . . if this country wants to throw itself away by voting over and over for people who are destroying it, let them. They will learn their lessons eventually and we'll come back stronger than ever. Right now the Dems aren't doing much better.

I want to take a risk and make a change. If America has to relearn some values lessons along the way, so be it. I will survive. I believe in consequences as opposed to always playing it safe and staying in the middle. Esp. when the middle is moving so far right . . . tough times ahead with either party in charge. Me vote for the least evil? I don't think so. I will fight and vote for something better.

[joanie]

I have to say that that picture of Thompson is so perfect . . . the smarmy narcissist. Ew! I think of him exactly like this every time I see him on TV. I have never liked watching him.

[nevets]

Hey Joanie, sounds like that source of sources for that link was by Rico again, any clue on who this Rico is.

[Junkyard]

In my previous Daily Kos diary about Fred "Snake Oil" Thompson, I pointed out that the erstwhile actor, agent of foreign nationals, Iraq war monger, and rabid deregulation lobbiest is nothing more than the flimflam man behind the Savings and Loan Scandal and public mouthpiece behind the lies preceding the Iraq War.

However, I wasn’t aware that Snake Oil’s favorite prop, the red Chevy pickup truck that he drove in his campaign to win Al Gore’s vacated Senate seat in 1994 is nothing more than backlot prop. Thompson never owned the truck; he rented it.

Snake Oil borrowed it just for his Senate campaign and now he's bringing out of mothballs for a bad summer sequel (and he's hoping for a blockbuster). In his Senate campaign, he only drove the truck the last few feet to the foot of a campaign appearance, where he can show it off along with his surgically scuffed work boots and his meticulously faded blue jeans. There, Thompson could play “Everyman” and dupe Tennessee voters into thinking that he’s one of them, or and a "Washington Outsider."

The truck in question is a 1990 Chevy, which the famed statesman-thespian rented during his maiden Senate campaign in 1994. The idea was that Thompson would dress up in blue jeans and shabby boots and drive himself to campaign events around the state. Upon arriving, he'd mount the bed of the truck and launch into a homespun riff on the virtues of citizen-legislators and the perils of Washington insider-ism. For good measure, he'd refer to himself in the third person as "Ol' Fred" and the Chevy as "this ol' baby."

Of course, false populism is nothing new to the GOP; Ronald Reagan’s "Hopalong Cassidy" cowboy outfit, John McCain’s “Straight Talk Express” tour bus, and Dubya’s "Mish'n 'ccomplished" flightsuit with matching codpiece are all great examples of the GOP putting image before the truth. But Thompson takes the cake. And, as progressives, we must to point out the blatant duping of the public by charlatans like Thompson.

The real Fred Thompson wouldn’t be caught dead driving that old pickup around, he’s much more comfortable in a luxury car befitting the flimflam man that he is. This pickup truck being a prop saying that he’s not part of the beltway is ironic, when the truth is that Thompson is one of the sleaziest beltway insiders one think of. Thompson, in fact, holds the dubious distinction of being the cynical flack behind two of the greatest American tragedies of the past 25 years.

From an 11-year old Washington Monthly article:

Thompson shakes a few hands, then walks out with the rest of the crowd to the red pickup truck he made famous during his 1994 Senate campaign. My friend stands talking with her colleagues as the senator is driven away by a blond, all-American staffer. A few minutes later, my friend gets into her car to head home. As she pulls up to the stop sign at the parking lot exit, rolling up to the intersection is Senator Thompson, now behind the wheel of a sweet silver luxury sedan. He gives my friend a slight nod as he drives past. Turning onto the main road, my friend passes the school's small, side parking area. Lo and behold: There sits the abandoned red pickup, along with the all-American staffer.

This post/diary is crosslinked at http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/6/2/10215/65441

(Kos Rec's are much appreciated)

[Robinz]

You may want to give in just to keep your party (your team) in place. But, I'm not sure I'm need to win so much . . . if this country wants to throw itself away by voting over and over for people who are destroying it, let them. They will learn their lessons eventually and we'll come back stronger than ever. Right now the Dems aren't doing much better.

I want to take a risk and make a change. If America has to relearn some values lessons along the way, so be it. I will survive. I believe in consequences as opposed to always playing it safe and staying in the middle. Esp. when the middle is moving so far right . . . tough times ahead with either party in charge. Me vote for the least evil? I don't think so. I will fight and vote for something better.

First off if you can't see the difference between Democrats and Republicans then I'm wasting my time.

I use to cross over and vote for republicans on occasion, when I thought one made sense. I was registered as an Independent but I primarily voted for Democrats. People like me are Democrats because the republicans made us Democrats. The republicans became batshit crazy and I've become more of a Democrat the crazier they get. So you see the middle isn't always moving towards the right. :)

I do believe in a lot of the Democratic values and Democratic programs but one thing I like about being a Democrat is I don't have to march lock step. As they say, like herding cats, like herding cats. :)

It dawned on me the other day when they were interviewing Cindy Sheehan why the intense burning at the stake of democrats over this doesn't work for me. Cindy was indignant that some Dems were to worried about their chances in '08 to vote the way she wanted on the war resolution.

I'm not saying that the war resolution isn't important but you know what, I don't want another republican in the White house under any circumstances. I'm tired of them appointing people who don't believe in the pill to head the dept that oversees woman's health. I'm tired of them recess appointing people to head agency's like the food and drug administration, the dept of the interior ect that don't give a damn about anything other then lining the pockets of themselves and the people who work in their industry. I'm tired of signing statements to bills that say "yea, right, pass whatever you want but where still going to do what we want". I'm tired of them pretending any science that they don't agree with isn't real. I'm tired of them lining the government agency's with dim whit religious people like Monica Goodling. They have screwed so many things up in so many ways it's going to take us a lot more than the 6 years they've had to mess it up, to fix it.

I sure as hell don't want to lose even the slim majority that we have in the House and Senate. Another republican rubber stamp House and Senate would just about kill this country.

In addition to that Bush was never ever going to sign it. Sure you could have sent it up there over and over but to what end? Mark my words the Bush gang would have had no problem with doing damage to the men and women in Iraq and blaming it on the Democrats. In fact I can damn well guarantee they would have. They have no conscience and they don't give a damn about the men and woman in service to this country.

Yes, I want the war over today but you know what, the long term health of this country demands that we don't let the crazy people have the keys to the White house or any other branch of the government again. The republicans have had 6 years to run amok and put up enough barriers that I've never thought we would be out of Iraq until we get them out of the White house. Darth and the Decider aren't going to let that happen and the Dems don't have enough of a majority to over ride the veto. If they did then I think there would be more of a chance but the majority is just to slim.

And yes, I'm still scared to death they will invade Iran.

Robinz

[Duffman]

Why are you wasting this long drawn-out diatribe on a progressive blog - wouldn't you get more mileage posting this on a Conservative one? You could sort of enlighten the enemy.
Bottom line: we shouldn't be complacent but the Repubs don't have a chance in the upcoming election...doesn't matter if Thompson is in or out.

[chucks]

I am seeing so much paranoia out of the left regarding Fred Thompson that I am going to have to take a closer look at him. Even better is the excitement I am hearing from my right leaning friends.
This election cycle may be more fun than I thought possible.
Best regards, Chuck

[Robinz]

Chuck when you get done "taking a closer look" at Fred Thompson and if you decide you like him. I would be very interested in why. I would be curious to hear what you see that I'm sure I won't. :)

And Duffman I don't take much time with blogs on the other side. It raises my blood pressure to high. I thought that honest disagreements about Democrats was something worth talking about. I'm sorry I went on a rant. I'll try and keep it short from now on.

Robinz

[blathering michael]

Joanie: I don't give a damn about the Democratic Party except that its structure will always be there and the easiest way to take this country to the left is to change the party from the inside- something that real activists are now doing with some success.
Disaster has come from anarchic attempts to separate from the 2-party system which, for a plethora of reasons I've written about ad nauseum, is here to stay.
You speak of the Dem Party as if it's some evil monolithic entity who should be opposed like the Republicans. For all its warts, it is a homologous, approachable democratic institution with whom even you and I agree more than we don't.
(We're talking about dissemination of power within the most powerful country in the world- it shouldn't be all that quick and easy to change the directions of its governing parties. But change they do, and change they have).
I'm a left wing pragmatist, (obviously not pure enough for thou, my darling) and believe in using the tools we've got. This country will never, ever change the constitution and adopt a parliamentary system where multiple parties are built in.
3rd party attempts throughout US history have produced little more than the occasional spoiled election and their own demise.
Meanwhile, the evil, mean bastards on the right have done a good job using the tools at hand to build a constituency we never thought possible. We ignore that to our peril.
If you don't buy any of this, dump the Democrats, join one of these other parties, and give it your all. Trouble is, we're kind of in between 3rd party implosions right now, so who to pick?

[Duffman]

'Twas meant for junkyard, Robin - not you; sorry : )

[joanie]

the easiest way to take this country to the left is to change the party from the inside- something that real activists are now doing with some success.

But Michael, if people like Pelz refuse to allow us to have the conversation, how can it be changed from the inside?

I've made this point over and over: Hong Tran brought something new to the conversation and Pelz didn't want to hear it. You and yours were so afraid of losing power at a time when we had it in the bag, you wouldn't even let us start the conversation.

Hong had no possibility of winning the nomination. None. So why go to such lengths to shut her up. That is not my kind of Democratic party nor is it democracy.

And the mere fact that there are so many independents - and Robin, I still consider myself an independent even though I generally vote on the Dem side - means both parties are not representing the needs of most people.

It now see both the Dems and the Republicans place loyalty to party over issues and values. But I refuse to totter on that fence . . . I'm stronger and braver than that. I think this country would survive. And if all the Dems that do totter on that fence got off it, we'd solve the problems sooner rather than later.

And Robin, what you "used to do" is irrelevant now. Most of us Dems used to do a lot of thinking and crossing over because we were not party loyalists. I voted Nader in 1996 because I knew it was a safe Dem win either way. I voted Gore and Kerry because Bush frightened the shit out of me in 2000 and even more so in 2004. I loved Gore but didn't love Kerry at all. So, please, leave the patronizing behind.

You like the Dems because you don't have to lock step. Well, the Republicans don't have to lockstep either as long as they vote Republican.

As for liking the values of the Dems, well, their values are damn close to the Republican values of late. Didn't you read my references to Lowi and Cenk? They see it.

I'm a Great Society Dem. Sorry. I try to vote issues and values. I want that party to come back to its roots: education and labor; freedom and justice for all.

I want some spine back on the Democratic side. Bush looks to be the stronger and that does make a difference with voters. Esp. on the right but probably with everybody. That's why Wellstone was so well liked. He had it. No worrying about the next election for him. That's why Kucinich is reelected in Ohio time after time. And I think that's why McDermott has strong support in his district. He sticks to his convictions.

I don't want their priority to be getting reelected. I want them to care about the issues and represent their views and values. If they can't do that. screw 'em and let them lose.

I do not speak of Democratic party as an evil monolith, Michael. Nor do I think that of the Republican party. Both parties have been seized by corporate interests and the far-right. The mainstream Republicans have to get some courage and take their party back as well.

It is people like you and Robin who support the party right or wrong and the relatives Sparky spoke of who don't vote anymore or vote third party that are the problem. I don't vote third party - even though I would like to see one - that are allowing democracy to wane. You're not exercising it anymore.

Organizing, opening up primaries to allow conversations that support new ideas and real change, giving time to third-party candidates, moving Cantwell via opposition from other candidates - Dean was moved to the left by Kucinich, letting elected officials know they aren't there for life just because we don't like the alternative . . . everybody needs to grow some spine.

We are stuck with this President because he appeared to have it.

We do have a slim hold on power. But I think the Dems in power have actually done themselves a disservice by trying to stay electable . . . and we have done them a disservice by not showing them we mean business about we want them to do.

Besides, we don't have a true majority. Lieberman is no Dem and Johnson isn't there. Right now there's more talk about getting out of Iraq on the Republican side than on the Dem side. Yes, they should have not given in on the Iraq legislation. The country is more against Bush than the Republican Congress . . . time for the Dems to show they are in charge and they can get the job done. Everything they've done has made the Republicans look stronger.

I hope I'm not rambling . . . I tried to address both of you at once.

Finally, Michael, it is not an approachable institution. Hong Tran proved that. And don't disrespect her . . . Pelz did everything he could to silence her voice in a guaranteed primary, Michael. That is what your party has become.

You sound like Good Germans. A bit dramatic? We'll see.

And Robin, there's a "New Jersey Housewife" letter going around. Have you seen it? Your voice and hers sound similar . . . but on opposing sides. She makes her case much as you do yours. I'll try to find a link for it.

As for third-party implosions, I really think the Dems had a great chance to win those new independents if they just showed that independence from the corporate elite, independence from worry about the next election, and spine I'm talking about. A lot of independents used to be fiscal conservatives and social liberals. We could have them . . . if our party would go back to its roots - probably not the "Great Society" model but certainly the FDR model.

So, that's what I think. :)

[sparky]

Duffman..obviously you don't read Daily Kos or you would not call his diary a diatribe. I'm beginning to wonder if you really are a faux Dem. By the way, a lot of conservatives DO read there.

Junkyard..I rec'd your diary with my kos handle. Great information. That is why I like DK so much--I learn about behind the scenes stuff...

[joanie]

From:http://thinkprogress.org/

One man stops a $475 million Iraq contract.

“A federal judge yesterday ordered the military to temporarily refrain from awarding the largest security contract in Iraq. The order followed an unusual series of events set off when a U.S. Army veteran filed a protest against the government practice of hiring what he calls mercenaries.”

The contract, worth about $475 million, calls for a private company to provide intelligence services to the U.S. Army and security for the Army Corps of Engineers on reconstruction work in Iraq. The case, which is being heard by the U.S. Court of Federal Claims, puts on trial one of the most controversial and least understood aspects of the Iraq war: the outsourcing of military security to an estimated 20,000 armed contractors who operate with little oversight.

Brian X. Scott, a 53-year-old Colorado man, filed the complaint in early April. He argues that the military’s use of private security contractors is “against America’s core values” and violates an 1893 law that prohibits the government from hiring quasi-military forces.

Sorry, Michael, that will be my last long post . . . for now. Please don't scold me. I'm sensitive. :)

[joanie]

Maxine Waters currently on Ring of Fire saying she is for impeachment. This threat from Cheney to get us in Iran certainly is good evidence that we do need to impeach all of them!

BTW, isn't Waxman doing a great job with his oversight committee. He is a true Democrat and American.

[Duffman]

Wow joanie that's a lot to digest; I'm not sure but you could have gone full circle there..I'll have to re-read. Me, a faux Dem...not quite joanie...like you I regard myself as an independent who has voted more Democrat than Republican. I've never voted for a 3rd party that I can recall. I guess you know by now but my main issue/concern is health care for all (and yes...single payor type).
You always write well joanie.
Now back to my outside chores...(I've a stubborn stump to remove...: )..deep-rooted...much like your beliefs)