OPEN THREAD: the 2004 election- a smoking gun? a 21st century watergate?

Wow.

"Was the 2004 Election Stolen?" Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s damning exposé in the new Rolling Stone Magazine

Comments

[sparky]

This is an excellent article...I read it yesterday afternoon, just a few hours before Bush/Cheney/Rove had to distract people from reading it by announcing that on Monday Bushie will announce that he is in favor of a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.

Guaranteed to focus the media away from REAL problems......

[Jeast]

There are so many issues in this country that needs our attention now,

BUT, ELECTION FRAUD NEEDS OUR IMMEDIATE ATTENTION NOW! Starting with MEDIA BLACKOUTS (Tom Browkaw, Dan Rather, Tim Russert)about ELECTION RESULTS UNTIL THE POLLS CLOSE IN HAWAII AND ALASKA!

The system is deeply flawed!! Private corporations SHOULD NOT be involved in running the voting machines or providing the voting machines...Remember Diebolt anyone?

[joanie]

I think everyone agrees but we seem to be powerless to stop it. Or should I say our anemic representatives and senators in Congress seem not to care . . . it is all about money and that is in the hands of the corps.

[joanie]

Actually, Conyers has made numerous attempts and McDermott has been there with him. Doesn't that speak for the ineffectiveness of the House?

[sparky]

Bubba Ed Shultz dismissed this on his show today at the top of the first hour..said he would talk about it when it hit the mainstream news,,,well Lou Dobbs and Wolf Blitzer have been talking about it on CNN this afternoon.
Big Bubba was pissed that he got so many emails telling him to read Kennedy's article,.,.he shot back with a comment about how he should "demand" that they read Bubba's book because everything in it came true.
Gawd what an ego.

[stodge charger]

Yeah, he's a pig-headed Hillary supporter. Those who are true patriots will help us to exterminate the Neo-Cons and the DLC is just waisting everyones time.

[Jeast]

How true about the Redhead, his diatribe about Kennedy's article was really disheartening, or should I say his short diatribe about the election fraud...and then there was his loud promo about his book...I wanted to hear about the fraud....maybe he hadn't read the article yet. I couldn't listen to him from 1 PM on today, so I dont know if the BRHD talked about the fraud later. God, I can't stand Dorki Monson and Madman Medved is worse... I'm stuck in my car delivering most days except today.....what to do, what to do, I know listen to my new Dixie Chicks CD. Does the Big Red Head really read and respond to his emails?

Thomm Hartman couldn't talk about this enough and even had RFK JR on his show.......I sent emails to Meet the Press,(what good that will do since MTP basically is a showcase for CONserves. I sent Robert Mak an e-mail, and called S Murray and S Cantwell. Also, I sent Keith Olberman an e-mail to talk about this. But I'm sure this will fade like all the other atrocities, NSA, Torture, CIA outing and others.....Oh and I just got my mail and now I am an official mail-in ballot voter in Snohomish County. That really makes me feel better about the voting fraud.......

[sparky]

I have permanent absentee voter status here as well, but I still drive by the county court house and drop it off,,,there is a drop box and there are usually county employees lined up at a drive through to pick up the ballots as you drive by.

[joanie]

You guys talk like this is news . . . between Palast, Bev Harris and Conyers, it's been begging for attention since right after the 2004 election. Actually, since after the 2000 election. I sent Bev Harris money myself to keep her investigation going in Florida.

Also, even the dems don't care. If they did, they would have made sure 2004 was honest after the debacle in Florida of 2000. At least making sure democratic counties had enough voting machines should have been first on their checklist. Where were they?

I guess Rolling Stone is at least a minor step up to "mainstream" media. I think citizens have to get outraged enough to go out into the streets. Show that they care.

Right now, half the country doesn't care because - honestly or DISHONESTLY - they won. And that's what is important. Pretty sad statement on American voting values and so-called "democracy."

And before any one of our conservative friends invokes the Gregoire-Rossi election in Washington, remember that we had a full airing on it by a republican secretary of state and a judge in a conservative county. And no one claimed that any county was shorted voting machines.

[sparky]

Exactly...Im not sure why Kennedy waited so long to write about it, and it is why I was so angry at Ed Shultz. He is one of the most uninformed talk show hosts on the air and when he isnt personally familiar with a subject brought up by a caller, he gets very defensive and cuts them off saying he is "not going to talk about rumors." He said that when a caller from SPokane wanted to talk about Jim West...Because Bubba hadnt hear about it, he told the caller he was just making it up.

Too bad you dont have cable, Joanie. President Clinton has been hosting a Global Conference on AIDS. So refreshing to hear a President who can put two sentences together that actually make sense.

[joanie]

Sometimes I wish I had cable but most of the time, I don't miss it. When I'm at school, I will occasionally turn on Olberman but will end up turning him off and going back to the radio. TV tries to move too fast and it seems like it misses the substance . . . maybe I'm just out of practice keeping up. :)

I do love to hear Clinton's speeches. He's given some great ones since leaving office. Why didn't that man do so much more his first two years? Kennedy and Papantonio(?) were talking about that today on Ring of Fire. They commented that he could have reinstated the fairness doctrine. Had he dones so, his remaining six years would have been much different.

Isn't it something that we give life to a three-time loser who steals a loaf of bread and yet highly paid government shills steal elections and nobody cares?

[joanie]

Sparky, I was just listening to an Ed Schultz commercial for the umpteenth time. He's boasting about beating KIRO. I don't think he's that good, and I don't think he should be so confident that those numbers will hold up. Do you? I think he's going to wear out his welcome and that the only reason he's doing well is because Dori seems to be getting so bad. I just don't quite get it with Bubba. . . doesn't seem like a Seattle kind-of-guy.

What do you think?

[sparky]

I think that Dori is so bad that Ed has an audience. If you really listen to Ed and how he relates to his callers...he is very superficial. When he has a Congress critter on, you can tell he is just waiting to bring the conversation back around to him. He doesn't truly LISTEN to what people are saying, so he tends to respond using the same cliche's over and over. When various Air America people come to town ( and he is Jones Network, not AA) Ed draws the smallest crowds.

[MH]

joanie: "Also, even the dems don't care. If they did, they would have made sure 2004 was honest after the debacle in Florida of 2000...Where were they?"

Excellent question! After reading the article and asking the same questions about 'where were they?' You have only two answers for Kerry and his legions of lawyers: 1. There really wasn't major fraud or 2. They were incompetent.

[sparky]

They were incompetent.

[joanie]

MH: politics is local. There is a party machine in each state/county that is supposed to be looking out for its constituents. You should know that.

According to your logic, if Kerry is an incompetent due to a poor political machine in Ohio; then, Bush is a criminal since the republican political machine stole the election.

I agree that Ohio's democratic political machine was incompetent. Most liberals would say better incompetent than criminal; apparently, most conservatives would say better criminal than incompetent.

And, I certainly agree that Bush is a criminal; I think almost everybody agrees with that at this point.

[joanie]

Sparky, short and sweet as usual! No wonder Michael likes you better. :)

[Jeast]

Does anyone realize how hard nosed the Ohio State Auditor was about giving up info on the 2004 Pres election and that the Ohio Legislators were in such a hurry to pass legislation on not being able to request election info returns on the 2004 presidential election......Look north to Alaska.........they reported a 232% election return in precints that only had 100 voters.........and the Auditor is being a butt about releasing info about those 2004 Presidential election returns........Concerned are suing.........
Go figure...Also, has anyone heard of Dewine? A Bushie Brown Noser? And Kerry, why has he been so quiet about all of this?
Maybe he will answer to Stephanie Miller on Monday?

[KS]

In the 2004 Governor's election, it was the Republicans who blew it - there was evidence to be had to overturn the result - the Dems were the only ones who presented signed affadavits by illegal voters - 5 of them and the judge deducted 5 votes from Rossi's total. What did the Repubs do ? resort to hand waving arguments, but no signed affadavits or other clear and convincing evidence that the judge said would overturn the election. The judge made the only call he could possibly make.

In Ohio, the Democrats suffer from a similar plight, except the evidence would probably be tougher to gather - so maybe they'll gather before Bush's term is over.. Time to move on and all that good stuff.

[Mike Barer]

Little Bobby should also investigate to see if the 1960 presidential campaign was stolen or if that is just propoganda.

[joanie]

Isn't it pretty well known that Daley's machine stole the election? I thought that was old news. I was a little young to do anything about it . . .

[Jeast]

1960? Maybe corrupt, corrupt, corrupt...uh,I was a very youngin'

2000 and 2004? CORRUPT x 3...
2006? No,I am not a youngin'
any more

But, need I say more?

[joanie]

Jeast, I heard some discussion of that Daley machine election a couple nights ago and the upshot was that there's no real evidence it was stolen . . . didn't hear it all so am not stating anything as fact. But, who knows?

"Steal This Election-OPEN SOURCE on KUOW airs Tuesday, 6-20 at 9 pm.

Open Source is a really, really good program. Go to their website and check out the blog that goes with it. Good posts.