It's the money demo: KIRO, KTTH peeking over the edge...

As we've reported, the midterm ratings known as 'trends' are out and the news ain't rosy for the Seattle Entercom talkers, KIRO, and KTTH. We reported Friday that the ages 12+ numbers were poor, but now we've seen the important-to-advertisers 25-54 surveys and they're devastating.

Overall (6 a.m. to midnight), the station slipped, even with the Seahawks' playoff run. Because of easy possibilities of sampling error, monthly ratings aren't usually that important to advertisers, but KIRO's terrible January is a blow.

That's because, as a source so poetically put it, KIRO was "counting on the Seahawks for a killer January, but instead, they got killed." (Sports talker KJR AM, on the other hand got a nice Seahawks bump).

KIRO ranked 12th; KVI 13th, Air America's KPTK 14th, and KOMO 18th. (If KIRO's February is even half as bad as its January, they're saying, KVI will easily beat it in the next trend.).

KIRO's morning drive, (5-9a) the news bloc with Jane Shannon and Gregg Hersholt used to rank consistently in the top 3, if not number one in the 25-54 demo. It sank to 8th place over the three-month trend. (January numbers were especially bad; ranking 11th, behind Stephanie Miller at Air America.

In the midday (10a-3p), a time slot where Dave Ross and Dori Monson used to kick Rush's ample fundament, John Procaccino and Dori have now pulled it down to 15th. Thom Hartmann and Eddie Shultz at Air America's KPTK beat them in 8th place. In January, KIRO midday performance ranked behind KDDS, a Spanish-language FM station out of Olympia! (and would have been even worse were it not for a relatively good December).

Dave Ross (m-f, 3-6) is wasting away in the afternoon drive (3-7p); and the numbers prove it- he was 18th in the three month trend. Al Franken and John Carlson beat him coming in at 11th. Ross's mere 19 minutes per hour of programming floating like scraps of meat in an off-putting ragout of traffic and ads has driven off many dedicated listeners such as BlatherWatch, and just about everyone else we know. (KOMO came in at 14th;-back when KIRO did news in this slot, it was usually in the top 10 in this demo.)

Sad, sad, KTTH, KIRO's abused and neglected stepsister; home of Rush Limbaugh and modestly self-described as "The Truth," is down, down down with an overall of 22nd in the market (24 is the bottom).

Our friends Boze & Sytman (m-f, 5-9a) were put into the  morning drive slot in December when KIRO defenestrated the intensely unpopular Mike Siegel. But in the mornings daypart (6-10a) which even includes an hour of Big Pants, they're 23rd. In terms of of share, they're down about 1/3 from Siegel's last book.

Big Pants and Michael Medved rank 12th in the market which is no change, but these numbers have been very volatile. We're told, however, that if you average them over the past six months, they're essentially flat.

It does our ample hearts good to tell you that the pencil-dicked, homophobic, xenophobe Michael Savage (KTTH m-f, 3-6p) is ranked at 24th behind a Centralia country music station and everyone else in the market for that matter.

What's next for KIRO and KTTH? Hear what we heard from a veteran local radio pro:

I think panic time is just around the corner. A lot of ad agencies don't even pay attention to individual books. They decide which stations they're going to buy based on the average ratings over the past 12 months, so they're just now going to start feeling the effects from their bone-headed decisions a year ago. I'd be surprised if Clendening and Pridemore are going to be able to hang onto their jobs for much longer. I think David Field has been sidetracked with his efforts to buy ABC Radio. Now that that has failed, one can only assume he will now start trying to figure out why his Seattle operations are so screwed up. I'm not sure what the exact number is -- you'll find it in Entercom's annual report -- but it used to be that more than 25 percent of Entercom's total sales came from the Seattle cluster. And most of that money came from KIRO and KBSG (which isn't doing very well either).

Comments

[J_P_K]

What a shame that KIRO, which was my sole source of AM entertainment for many years, has mismanaged itself to a point where I seldom listen anymore. I learned so much listening to Dave Ross in his 9 – noon time slot. I always enjoyed the ability he had to dig into a topic and to allow an interesting caller a large block of time to put forth an interesting viewpoint. Today, in the 3-6 he’s unlistenable. I can’t imagine that he’s happy where he is. I’ve move on to KPTK! Hartmann has a Ross-sized brain and is not afraid to use it but I do miss the focus on local issues. Noon to 3, I’ll take Big Eddie over (Big Ego) Dori anytime. Nights now belong to KGO, but the long summer days and the physics of medium wave transmission are going to send me searching for something more local until dark.

[sadfsadfsadasd]

don't you mean "KJR AM" instead of FM? Unless the oldies station somehow received a bump from the seahawks.

Maybe gary glitter has more pull than he realizes.

[TomF]

The trendline is tragic but not shocking. You'd have to be crazed on black acid to cancel your entire PM drive product, move your most skilled and appealing talker into 3-6 where he cannot construct a segment longer than four minutes because of traffic and news/trivia breaks, fire most of your talent without replacements in mind, air months of provisional/fill-in talent who are now reduced to admtting to curious callers they have no idea what's happening to KIRO's talk roster, and program evening sports talk against upcoming night Mariners games on KOMO.

These guys are insane. They are teaching an honors course in how to totally destroy a major-market AM talk blowtorch in less than one year. Students of the business are going to be writing theses about The KIRO Spiral. It's become the "Gigli" of radio stations.

They have to STABILIZE, COUNTERPROGRAM, HIT NEWS HARD and STAY LOCAL. They must:

** Rebuild the schedule around Dave (9a-12p) and Dori (12p-3p).

** Reinstate PM news/drive (3p-7p). The 6p KIRO Evening News is the first thing they've done right all year, but it's not enough. You can't do issue talk at 400p when people tune in needing traffic and headlines RIGHT NOW.

** Lock down the other shifts NOW. Do roundtable local issue talk 7p-10p, not sports. NY Vinnie should not be hosting hours; he doesn't need an air shift, he needs a respirator.

** Lose Proccacino. Nice guy at the wrong station. Ron & Don: back to bikini contests.

** Resist the urge to run syndicated, UNLESS they can pry Coast to Coast away from KVI.

** Promote the best radio newsroom in the city backed by the strongest issue talkers in town. Period.

It's SO SIMPLE. Jesus, it's heartbreaking how they've kicked this station down Main Street.

I am available for consultation.

[JDB]

KIRO needs to stop trying to do everything at once. If you are going to be a talks station during the afternoon drive, then let Dave talk. If you are going to be news, bring back the news team and put Dave on 9-noon. Trying to do both, so that Dave can't get any momentum on any topic is just foolish.

Kiro is not in terrible shape if someone does something now. Go back to morning news, Ross 9-noon, Dori noon-3p, news, traffic and weather 3-6, Sports based talk 6-9, and local talk for the rest of the night, and you will be back to the mix that made them such a strong station for a very long time.

However, the longer they avoid this, the harder it will be to get their listeners back.

As for KTTH, all sports, all the time, would be their best move. Let Medved go to Salem, and let Fisher (who is already saddled with paying too much for the Mariners given their current performance) take back on Limbaugh and have no money left to do anything. That would be a smart buisness move, which means they probably won't do it.

[eileen]

Another sign of KIRO's problems - if you listen to the commercials - is a shocking lack of sponsors. I know that radio advertising isn't cheap, but if a radio station is doing well enough, the more sponsors will find their way to advertise on the station.

I can tell you, I'm about to throttle American Equity Mortgage at this point; its scary when you start singing along with their jingle! ARRGHH

[sclub]

Right just about everywhere except:

<<** Rebuild the schedule around Dave (9a-12p) and Dori (12p-3p).>>

Dori's not doing too well either. Don't give him a pass.

[TomF]

I know Dori's not doing too well, but he's got two things going for him: with Dave, he's one of two Last Mohicans left standing, so he's a stability marker, and there's an underdeveloped Abbott-and-Costello play with Ross that could help.

[JB]

Re KIRO's local production: They used to have several voices, including some of the newsers, do their local spots... and a LOT more personal endorsements from the hosts. Lately however, it seems that everything's being done by one guy... the one that does those one-on-ones with Dave Zim (Home Mortgage Associates... "and Dave, when they call, will they talk with... YOU?). A one-voice shop used to be more common at 1kW community stations... not something out of Seattle. With the union out of the way, certainly they must have enough money to put on an extra voice or two. On the other hand, Eileen's got a point. They don't have much local advertising going on these days. Maybe there isn't enough work amongst the cluster to keep more than one production guy busy. ?

[Andrew]

Dave Ross must like the 3pm-6 and be unwilling to move because it's just not fathomable that they would have experimented with Proc in the 9am-12 rather than have made the 3pm-6 all news and put Dave back.

The news on the 3's thing is an obvious sign take on KOMO during the drive time but yet there's Dave Ross, collecting a paycheck between the margins traffic news reports.

[rodman]

Move Dave Ross back to 9-12, or 12-3, hell, even 6-9, anything but where he is now. I used to look forward every day to tuning in to hear him and his guests, but now the experience is an irritating pageant of intellectual coitus interruptus while I make my miserable daily crawl up I-5.

If they *must* take those mid-sentence hard breaks to remind us how bad the traffic we're already sitting in is, maybe give this a try: have the 3-6 slot be an open-lines format on any of the day's news stories, with a rotating schedule of the part-timers hosting. Let Vinnie, Hart, Ryder, Shiers, Proctochino, etc. have just enough airtime to be interesting, but not enough to drive us crazy. And by "open lines" I mean the real, Art Bell style open lines -- no screener. That's the real audition for a talk show host.

[JDB]

All right, let's say that Dave Ross doesn't want to get up early any more (possible, it isn't easy doing the morning shift). Fine, move Dori to 9, and move Dave 10 noon.

It would be nice if Dori would chill, but getting rid of him will not make KIRO better, not now, not for a while. Build on what you have.

It is possible having dumped a lot of news staff is preventing moving Ross to mornings, but if that is the hold up, they just need to push through and realize they are losing much more by putting Ross in the 3-6 slot. Either that, or stop breaking up the time so much that it isn't worth listening to.

[ChetBob]

I dont know how Dori can be rehabilitated. His full throttle move to George Bush (37% approval) Republican and his lust for executing minors have left such an impression on me that I can't listen even a little bit now without feeling close to something sick and dirty.

When I first started listening to KIRO over 10 years ago, you could sort of believe Dori was the kind of reasonable-think-every-thing through conservative he claimed to be (even though he said he wasn't conservative). Now he sounds less reasonable and thoughtful than half the guys at 770.

Its just not as cute hearing discussion about popular television shows from a guy who openly supports torture.

I just dont see the local continuity between Dave and Dori that I felt 10 years ago, so I doubt the station can really be successfully rebuilt around them.

[Ted Smith]

J_p_k said "Nights now belong to KGO, but the long summer days and the physics of medium wave transmission are going to send me searching for something more local until dark.

As you may know, KGO is available on the internets. You can listen live here
or to an archive of the last 24 hours here (or just go to www.kgo.com and start clicking.

As an aside, KGO and the other ABC stations have been sold to Cumulus, who may well run them through the corporate blender, so enjoy it while you can.

[The Anti KIRO]

Buy a Dodge.com

For Christ's sake I don't want to buy a Dodge. How many times does KIRO have to play that stupid commercial.

Don't get me going about that Invisible Fence!

Monson is nothing but a goddamn billboard with an ugly face!!!

[Andrew]

Dori hopes my weekend was fabulous. Fabulous. Well, it wasn't but that intro music...

[chris]

especially when he does those tv ads for Stupid Prices.com

[The Anti Kiro]

I am falling out of my chair when Monson talks about the Sonics-Key Arena deal and says, "Nobody has even looked at my plan".

Who the fuck are you? A talk show host. He must lay in bed at night and truly believe the verbal diarrhea that spews from his mouth. Does Monson have ANY impact on what happens in Seattle?
You're a talk show host not Jesus Christ!

[Andrew]

Hahahaa, I had just turned it off when I heard the topic fortunately. He also once said something like "no other major media outlet in Seattle is touching this story besides this show" and has at other times threatened the establishment with the power and smarts of his listener base. HAhhdsahdasda

[Seabeck]

Does that guy from the Schick Shadle farm sound bombed to anyone else besides me? I can't stand those commercials. "Putting to sleep that part of the brain" makes me think they're doing labotomies there.

[Andrew]

I heard the give you alcoholic drinks of your choosing spiked with some drug that makes you vomit and become violently ill, which, of course has a lasting impact. I can't drink cinnamon schnaps anymore.

[Not A Listener Anymore]

Thank you for voicing my concerns.I used to love listening to Dori. Turns out that I'm tired of how much he loves C@tlin Capital. Dave's show used to be a highlight in my otherwise routine day.

I wrote to Dave and he said he has 8 MINUTES of programming in the second half hour. That means we are treated to 22 MINUTES of the same insufferable ads, teasers for the MORNING NEWS and other crap.

There basically is no show anymore. Ross is just the bait the station is using to get you to listen to their bush league advertisements. I hate what has happened to KIRO.

Once upon a time there lived an old sales manager who had a number of hens, ducks, geese and talk show hosts. He used to send his little daughter to the meadow every day to take care of the ducks, geese and talk show hosts.

But he had one goose that he never allowed with the others. This one had a little house and yard of its own (with an Invisible Fence). It was such a wonderful goose that the old sales manager was afraid of losing it.

Each day this goose laid a large golden egg. The sales manager could hardly wait for the new day to come, he was so eager to get the golden egg.

At last he said to himself, "I will kill the goose and get the gold all at once."

But when he had killed the goose he found that it was just like all the other geese.

In his haste to become rich, he had become poor.

Moral: Greed destroys the source of good.

---Insert mortgage commercial here---

[lukobe]

jb wrote "Lately however, it seems that everything's being done by one guy... the one that does those one-on-ones with Dave Zim (Home Mortgage Associates... "and Dave, when they call, will they talk with... YOU?)."

Who IS that dude? I love him!

[lukobe]

Let's give HIM a show

[abalone]

Well, at least I hope the advertisor that got Prell fired is still shelling out the big bucks to KIRO.

In my opinion, that was the beginning of the end. Idiots.

[rev]

The Shick-Shadel guy is Pat O'Day, who owned the Seattle top 40 market in the 1960's as the PD and an on-air jock at KJR. I suppose those commercials are intended to grab his old audience with that very distinctive voice.

[sparky]

Great post, Not A Listener...

I cant believe that Dave Ross is happy with his situation.

I have been KIRO-free for over 3 years now.

[demon seed]

And the name of the golden goose?? Jim French! I'm sure all would be right with KIRO if only Jim French was back. That's the ticket.

[ADC]

I just returned my Arbitron diary a few days ago. This was my third Arbitron survey by the way, I don't know how I ended up on their list.

KIRO used to be my mainstay from 5:15am when my alarm goes off, to 3:30pm, when I pulled back into my garage.

No more, unfortunately. Proccacino's laugh makes my skin crawl, and Dori's ego has grown too annoying.

Dori has also developed an annoying habit of pandering to junior high males, with his nonsensical "jokes" involving gay people.

That's very odd, and stands in stark contrast to Dave Ross's more cerebral presentations.

I miss Dave's show from 9-12, he has a knack for making people think....unlike most others at KIRO or KVI.

Allan Prell did so too, but in a more comical way. I miss Prell also, though apparently I'm one of the few who does?

Whoever has driven KIRO into the brickwall, should really pursue other career alternatives. Radio station management obviously isn't their strength.

[eileen]

Re: The Schadle Method. What upsets me, as a therapist, is the false advertising those people use to sell the product. Is it true they give you some drug that makes you violently ill? Either way, addiction problems aren't resolved until one figures out how they got there, and deal with the emotional causes. Ain't no other way round it - there's no quick cure for an emotionally-based problem like alcoholism.

::stepping off soapbox:::

[ADC]

Shick-Shadel doesn't use drugs to make you ill, they strap you in a bed from 9a-3p, start a vodka drip IV, and turn on KIRO 710.

Drugs are so 90's.

[KS]

Could you publish the actual ratings ? What is your source ? Arbitron ? I have a difficult time believing that Air America rates higher that almost all other major stations in the Seattle area ? I would also be interesting to see the ratings from 5 years ago, just for comparison sake. Contrary to popular opinion on this blog, I believe that Bob Brinker has a substantial listenership on the weekends on KIRO.

I remember seeing the national syndicated talk show ratings that you published last November, which were interesting.

[Andrew]

I'm OK with aversion therapy. I know some alcoholics who simply need to stop drinking - the rest of their mental health can hold out much longer than their liver.

[joanie]

I agree with putting Dave back on in the morning but he will have to win back those listeners that have migrated over to Thom Hartmann. Dave's edge is his local stuff but Thom is so good.

Also, Dave has to lead Dori. Some Ross listeners may stick around to see what Dori's got on the menu, then leave. I don't see Dori's listeners sticking around for Dave. May be my bias . . .

I know Dave said he was glad to get off that early morning shift. But, it seems like he pretty much does what he's told so he might be flexible. Somebody said a long time ago that they thought Dori was behind these moves; well, a little humble pie might be good for him.

Val Stouffer was great during drive time. She is missed.

Love to hear that Stephanie Miller is moving up. She's a super lead in for Thom Hartmann. Still, I don't care for Schultz. That becomes my NPR time till Franken is on. Sure wish Ross could amble on over to KPTK for that 12-3 slot!

Allen Prell 7-10 would work I think.

I'm sort of enjoying all this because I'm really mad at KIRO! They screwed up my life so they deserve what they get!

[Ted Smith]

Today, I heard Dave Ross start to explain to a caller why a 20% credit card interest rate was better than a 350% payday loan interest rate. But I didn't hear the end because he had to break for a traffic report. And by the time he was back, I was gone.

[Paula]

Not having Dave Ross in the morning caused me to rethink my entire morning radio habit. Once I really listened to Greg and Jane, I realized they have no chemistry together. My ear could be wrong, but on a daily basis they don't do anything interesting. I catch traffic reports on KOMO now and switch to Bob Rivers for entertainment.

[Caytie]

The beginning of the end for KIRO was when they fired Allan Prell.

As far as I'm concerned KIRO is getting just what they deserve.

[The Anti Kiro]

Please confirm if Alexander was interviewed on the Monson show today.

Monson promoted his "live" interview with Shaun Alexander since Noon and at 240pm it looked like it wouldn't happen.

The guy "baits" his entire audience to hang around for 3 hours for an interview that doesn't happen. What a loser.

I'm gonna pick this guy apart until he's off the air. He's nothing but a loud mouthed idiot.

[TomF]

The absence of chemistry between Greg and Jane in the mornings is a problem, yes, but God knows it's not KIRO's primary problem. (She's mailing it in, with her singsong bored laugh that substitutes for a thoughtful ad-lib of any kind. The only guy who's even trying any more during AM drive is Bill Swartz the sports dude.)

Dori may be an egoist, a total endorsement whore and a reflexive Bushie, and he's grown much less tolerant the past few years, but he enterprises his show topics, books guests, and tries to do something interesting. The other morning I was listening to the top of Proccacino's show as he surfed Drudge and Huffington looking for topics in real time. I could read along with him. Two words, movie boy: show prep.

I don't think of a 9a shift as insanely early, BTW -- no reason why Dave Ross can't jump in his car at 630a and make the slot.

Yes, Pat O'Day sounds bombed in the Schick spots. They always break me up for that reason.

[TomF]

Addendum: Monson did interview Alexander at about 250p this afternoon.

[joanie]

Dave said he's up at 4 am or some ungodly hour like that. He has to put in a couple of hours before his 9:00 show. That's why he wasn't complaining about the move beforehand. He said that on air.

[abalone]

When I was a small child I remember Pat O'Day voicing the exact same commercial on an AM station. Even then, I thought the slur in his voice sounded inebriated. (I grew up amongst hippies. I would know.)

Anyway, the add seemed to disapear for decades, and suddenly it's back. Seems to me that if they discovered a miracle cure, the world would have caught on by now.

[X-Kiro Listener]

In my opinion, KIRO is in a freefall and will be sold soon. I have enjoyed Dave Ross for years, and I used to like Dori. But he's turned into an egotistical jerk. He's acting exactly like his hero, GW Bush; just can't admit he's wrong.
I think the station started it's downward spiral with the sudden firing of Fred Ebert. Now, he was an interesting and intelligent host! Then Erin Hart, I looked forward to hearing her weekend shows. The politics of KIRO seemed to be moving to the right. Could this have been Dori's influence? Then Mike Webb's demise. I think the thinking listeners have found KTPK and Air America. That's what happened to me, and I'm not going back to KIRO.

[Mark]

I could kick Dori when he does those Aamco ads; they are thieves.

[Barkless in Seattle]

>>>there's no quick cure for an emotionally-based problem like alcoholism.>>>

(¯`·._(¯`·._ZAP!_.·´¯)_.·´¯)
..of course there is.

[Seabeck]

I looked on KIRO's "new and improved" web page, but could not find the Vodka IV drip unit for sale.

Somebody go find Doug Glant.

[Mikey]

Dori lost me long ago. After 9/11, he lost the ability to entertain any rational debate critical of the Bush-led Junta. And once KPTK went live with Air America, KIRO no longer exists on my dial. KOMO provides local news, weather and traffic when needed.

I would love to see 1) KPTK amp up its signal and 2) Dave Ross become KPTK's first local show. It's not going to happen, but it would be nice.

- Puyallup Liberal

[joanie]

It would also be nice if they could lose the sports thing that interferes with their programming. :)

[Mikey]

I'm a Cougar fan, so that sports thing that interferes with programming works great for me!